There's a lot of shit going down in Phoenix and MN right now because some hobbyists blurred the lines from client to pimp and then crossed them. In the thread below, there seems to be some acquiescence to the idea that it's OK to accept discounts or preferential treatment from an agency or provider in exchange for reviewing the lady seen. It's seen as "good business" tantamount to getting a free appetizer or something if a regular at a restaurant. BS.
If you are doing it for a discount, even if the review or mini is an accurate, honest, and factual account, doing this crosses a line IMHO and opens the hobbyist up to trouble.
I'm not commenting right now about how it affects the integrity of the review system (I personally think it degrades it) but more about how the line from just seeing a provider to deriving a value benefit from the transaction gets crossed. That is really the issue and where the trouble will come from.
Take a good, hard look at the issues in MN and Phoenix. Read the stories and review the threads. In both situations, the public face of the hobbyists' issues centers around the blatant shill posts, reviews, and mini-reviews posted by those hobbyists who forgot that they weren't quasi-pimps. They very clearly seemed to have shilled these chicks relentlessly. Now we find out that they allegedly received either discounts, freebies, or preferential treatment to do so. A recipe for disaster.
I've always been dead set against shill posts for this reason. You can never tell the difference between the guy who's just really happy to have gotten a great lay from the guy who is actually getting something from pushing the chick on the boards.
Be careful. Hey, to each his own, and hobbyists are notoriously always on the hunt for better prices for better pussy. Nothing's going to change that. However, there should be a line maintained. Bottom line in a nutshell is that if the better price is only for you AND in exchange for your help in her seeing clients at the normal price - it shouldn't be done IMHO.
This is not a legal type post, but more of a practical one. So I would appreciate if this did not devolve into a legal debate - save it for the Legal Corner Board. However, as with anything in this hobby, LE is always a factor in every decision we make. All things considered, it really doesn't matter if there is a technical violation of the law or not. That becomes truly academic with an arrest for most of us because it is at that point that our lives are irrevocably changed.
I can't agree with you more...Everyone needs to uderstand Global warming concepts
I have tried to post my own warning but in a different type of post with a different situation in mind.
Kisses Haley
Like it or not it is marketing. I don't agree with this form. But like you said to each his/her own. In the end if the provider is not what she is made up to be she wont last long I think you already know that as well. Don't sweat the small stuff if it does not directly effect you. Trust me I learned.
Cheers Livie
The very idea that some lady would PAY me to have (fantasy) sex with her and then report how much I enjoyed it is hilarious.
Or, at least I thought it was hilarious. I guess this really happens, huh?
But we shouldn't really be surprised. At the bottom line, no business is involved in charity for the good of all. It's involved in making money; and if paying a few folks off helps them make more money than they would otherwise make, it's a logical business decision.
And -- if there is one point I have seen hammered home repeatedly, it is that the ladies here are in BUSINESS.
Well -- you put those two things together and -- shazam -- you have ladies paying men to have sex with them. AND a tremendous conflict of interest that makes reviews potentially suspect.
This sort of conflict of interest is so pervasive today in everything from business to politics, that few people stop to consider why it is wrong or a bad thing. Instead, they focus on the immediate short-term.
Here's the problem: this phenomenon will ultimately drive the best and most ethical of providers out of business.
The reason is simple. The conflict of interest will skew supposedly neutral information to favor those women most likely to pay for good reviews. And women who will PAY for good reviews, aren't the ones who would get them anyway.
The number of dollars available from clients to providers is finite at any given moment in time. Thus, not only is the bad provider enriched, but the good provider loses out. In essence, it becomes a system in which the poor and mediocre get supported on the backs of the best and brightest.
bad money drives out good money.
A few years down the road, clients will all be paying $1000/hour for a bearded lady whose idea of "gfe" is having you hold her spittoon.
And good providers?
Well -- you see these ladies' posts. These are some smart folks - so they will just turn their intellect to some other pursuit.
lines of your post. Great juxtaposition!
There are many many reasons why providers and agencies offer discounts, often targeted discounts.
Do you consider all of these to be wrong?
Some common reasons:
An indie new to TER wants to get a review history established so she offers a discount to TER members in hopes that someone will review her
An agency has a new or visiting lady and uses the same strategy for the same reason
(both of these discounts are targeted or limited, and for the purpose of helping her get reviewed so that others will pay the "normal" rate, but a quid pro quo for an inflated review is not necessarily implied)
A lady is not getting the biz she wants so she offers occasional discounts, sometimes under another "name" on an alternative advertising venu, or sometimes on her local board, to get things moving. However these discounts are often time limited so not everyone is going to get the same deal
A touring lady has not filled her dance card so she offers discounts to get the time booked. In the past it was not unusal to see specials from a visiting lady turn up on CL at vast reductions....
A lady offers discounts to those who pre-screen and pre-book before a tour visit. Not everyone is going to receive the discount. The discount serves to help her gauge her level of interest and profitability.
A lady offers discounts to some regular clients she prefers.
It seems to me that the simple truth is that people in business use discounts, often targeted to a particular clientele, for a variety of reasons in their own interest, and that not everyone pays the same price for goods and services in the real world for a variety of reasons.
Would you advocate that it be required that TER members refuse all discounts?
Not trying to stir it up, just trying to understand your position and your sense of TER "common sense" at this time.
there is nothing wrong with offering discounts to all people or prebooking discounts. However if you offer a discount for a review it is wrong. If you offer a discount under a fake name or alternative name on a different venue don't think a vast majority of the men who read this board don';t know that as they read craigs list and backpage as well. I will further say dont think guys are stupid if they see a ton of reviews for a month its one of those things that make you go hmmmm. just my 2cents from someone who has been around a long time.
is given to the hobbyist in exchange for that hobbyist drumming up more business for the agency or provider, it crosses a line.
I can't see how you could misconstrue what I said to apply to all types of discounts such as to fill space on a tour, for pre-screening, or for regular clients.
As for the general discount "in hopes" of receiving reviews, well that seems to be squarely outside of what I was talking about. By definition, if she is "hoping" for a review, she is not directly trading the review for a discount. AND the Discount is generally applied to a group, not just to the individual hobbyist.
The accuracy of the review doesn't matter to what I am referring. She can be the best 10/10 provider in the world, but if you are getting a break as a direct quid pro quo for drumming up business for her through a review, mini, or shill post, you are deriving a value benefit from her business.
You actually do seem to be trying to stir it up by taking it to levels clearly not intended.
Reviews should be initiated only by the reviewer, not in exchange for anything else. Is that so hard to understand?
I agree.
I have never been offered a discount *on the condition of writing a review*. I would not accept one.
However, a provider, indie or agency, offering discounts to select frequent TER or TBD reviewers in hopes of getting a review -
*where no quid pro quo is promised or even discussed*
- seems entirely OK to me.....
Thank you for putting a finer point on it.
reviewers who threaten a bad review if you won't see him for "his rate".
When I first came to the DC area I got a lot of these typpe of threats from guys who thought I didn't have many reviews and thought I was a "new" girl.
I had used a different name and number when I visited DC because I had already been warned about the reviewers here.
I agree that a discount in exchange for requesting a review is a slippery slope and can be a recipe for disaster, but frankly if it is a totally honest review then what does it matter? Maybe the problem is: How do we know if it is an honest review? We don't. It's the same with all the reviews...we don't really know if they are a little over the top or not. I recently saw a local provider that was really cute, like a 7-8 on the TER scale. But she was not "model material" (TER 9), there is no way she could get a job as a model. Recently, some guy gave her a 10! That means once in a lifetime. I repeat, ONCE in a lifetime. I think that was over the top, so now I don't trust his reviews as much.
All I care about is if the review is accurate. Now, if word gets out that provider X is discounting for reviews, then yes there is less credibility.
I think writing a review is a pain in the ass and takes effort. I have to look up links to her ads, her website, copy her phone number, her email, plus write the review, which has to be very detailed or it will get rejected. I spend at least 45 min gathering information and writing a reviews, almost as long as I spent with the provider in the first place (if I booked an hour). For many men, it's jsut not worth the trouble to write them all the time. I don't take the time to write reviews for every woman I see, and most of those women were fantastic experinces, so they are missing out on the benifit of my (and others) positive reviews.
Although I have never been offerd or requested a discount for a review, I can see the logic from a marketing perspective. I think trust is the problem, just like a restarant reviewer. If he got his meals for free, how do we trust the review? So, I do see your point.
By the way, I get a financial incentive to write reviews right here on TER. I've had VIP status since January and I have never given TER one single dime. All I have to do is write an honest review every 15 days! Do you think that is wrong?
but it's do to the difficult economic times. Writing a review has never come up in the emails or phone calls before I see them. When we're finished and we're saying our goodbyes I'll ask them if they wouldn't mind me writing a review. Most ladies say "yes, please write one", and that's as far as the conversation goes.
i made.
at the time i was somewhat naive in making some happy reminiscences. but i have been put wiser by a provider who indicated some of the effects those reminiscences can have. by being drawn in to reminisce happily i was likely being co-opted into shilling. sily me.
since having stopped my cooperation in that, there certainly has been an increase in drama for me. but i trust will pass without my having to start my TER profile over again from scratch.
the provider who educated me about this was very clear about how reviewers and posters do this at the direction of the providers. it was a most enlightening discussion.