The other thread got too long that not all comments were seen, but someone said something great, that if you were decent and a good man and she doesn't give you sex, then get away from that crazy bitch.
One person I see regularly literally breaks my heart, very upfront about getting sex once a year, it's on his birthday. I can't imagine being so delusional that you think it's ok to view sex as a "gift" to your significant other that is so treasured you only give it once a year. It's just mean. Your phrase of "makes it feel like rape," wow, that was really vivid. I really wish I could poll this type of women and seriously ask the reason for withholding, are kids that tiresome? Is balancing work and home just too exhausting? Apart from the physical issues like menopause, why do so many women stop wanting to have sex???To bounce off of the previous post, in your opinion, how long would a dry spell in a marriage need to be to feel justified in stepping out into the hobby? Feel free to expound on mitigating factors, such as various physical/emotional ailments that affect sex drive/performance. If there's no sex in sight, is it chickenshit to not try to get permission first (open marriage discussion) before stepping out? Discuss!
It's not just about the Mrs putting out once in a while. How does she make you feel on the 29 other days of the month, and the other 23.5 hours of the day on which you get to have marital relations? (Just using that as an example--feel free to insert your own frequency of fornication with your wife here)
Does she still laugh at your jokes? Does she still think of you as her hero? Does she listen to you complain about the shit that happens at work, with a sympathetic ear? Or does she say, "Your think your day sucked? How about my day?"
A man doesn't start "looking around" just because the marriage is at a point where he and his wife no longer f--- like bunny rabbits. He looks around when he feels unappreciated, when his wife no longer listens to his stories, stops laughing at his jokes, and generally makes him feel as if he is just one more obligation to be suffered, right along with her own job, the kids, blah blah.
Even if there is still an occasional half-hearted attempt at "date night", it's not enough if the rest of the emotional support package isn't there.
(Or at least, this is my take on questions like this. As always, YMMV)
Here's what a lot of folks don't get...Familiarity does breed contempt big time. So you have to WORK at being marriage. Every single couple I know who has been married 20 years or more has gone thru some tough years. A lot of people think marriage should be a non stop fantasy. Anyone who thinks this way is setting themselves and their spouse up for heartbreak.
I've asked people who have been married for 10-50 years if there were times that they looked across the table at their spouse and thought to themselves, "Wow, what in the hell I'm I doing with this person???" All said yep!
For better or worse really means that!
I've heard many people say, she/he used to love...(insert a personality trait) about me when we first met and now it gets on his/her nerves!
Marriage is sometimes HARD. It's not a fairy tsle. Chris Rock said one time about being with a man for a LONG time, "You have to love the crust of a man! New pussy won't be there when you are sick, lose your job (ect)."
How many times have you heard about a couple who outgrew the relationship? I've heard it a kazillion times over my life. The urge to want to try something (someone) new is in all of us. It's how you handle this that determines the outcome.
For A lot of women who have been thru menopause sex really hurts. The sex drive changes or goes away. Women who experience this should definitely talk to their doc. This can be fixed or at least be helped out in most cases. A lot of men I've been with say their wife changed big time after menopause. Well DUH, lol!
But back to the familiarity thing...the same ole same ole gets BORING. It takes WORK to stay faithful on both parts.
Anything else I say on this matter might affect the bottom line for the ladies here so I'm officially off my sop box now.
Steph
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Marry me Stephanie, and you can have my crust
Yeah it's a state of mind all right. u get married because you want to have God's grace to fuck your girl when you want ? Correct? Marriage should leave you with NO dry spells. Christ thats what you get married for , so you can fuck.
It would be right after I get back from honeymoon..
I will make sure the jetlag is over though.. That way, I can enjoy the hooker to the fullest.. 
I think many people can withstand well over a year, but when the end of year 2 approaches, it really gets to them. I've seen a few people who had never done this and when I asked how long it had been since they had sex with their SO several said almost 2 years.
Totally agree with the other poster though about dry not being the only reason, year 1 of the dry spell they were still on good terms, still friends and still made each other laugh, year 2 however, they started losing the other things, maybe the resentment of not getting sex?
Resentment over not getting sex became huge for me. I'd never, ever considered seeing a pro, and never thought I'd have to. But I never expected the sex to stop
had this way of working - he would see an escort after exactly 3 times of being turned down by his wife. His own ethical protocol. That made him resent her less.
t summary of marriage I have ever heard goes like this:
The man gets married thinking she will not change - BUT SHE CHANGES!
The woman gets married thinking he will change - BUT HE DOES NOT!
One word of advice that I have given to many a groom at the wedding reception is:
That he always remember that IF MAMA AIN'T HAPPY, AIN'T NOBODY HAPPY!
The last time I had sex with my ex was 9 am Sunday morning, August 16, 2009. Not that I'm keeping track or anything.
Before that? I don't remember. I quit drinking in 2007, and that was the end of our sex life, such as it was. She wasn't comfortable having sex sober, and I wasn't interested when she was sloppy drunk, which was most every night.
Prior to 2007, it wasn't even good sex. She'd gone through menopause and said she didn't much care about sex. This was a huge change from the fantastic sex we'd had since 1968 right up until 2004 or so.
After two years of waiting, I knew the marriage was ending. On a trip out west, I visited a Nevada brothel. After the divorce, I started seeing providers in my area.
Even if I had no interest in sex, we'd be divorced.
I've heard of people going to their spouse and discussing the open marriage thing. It can go three ways…
1. To hell
2. To changing the relationship, opening the eyes of the 'neglector' to find ways to work on that area
3. An open marriage, lol.
a. Both parties are fine as one was probably cheating anyway and now has an 'out' to cheat even more
b. The open marriage starts, and the agreer finds out he/she would be more hurt and jealous than thought
c. They fall in love with a new lover and break up
Of course, these are all 'what if's,' but I've heard of a few happening. Some open marriages seem to work out, but all someone has to say to "How's married life going?" "Great!" for people to think everything is just fine.
xoxo
-- Modified on 11/14/2013 12:21:36 PM
grounds for uncontestable divorce. BTW, congrats to Cosette for starting that last thread. That conversation on this board, which some would condemn as immoral, contributed to more useful sharing of information and introspection than any advice columns. Many of the posters used their anonymity to share what appear to be painfully honest facts and thoughts.
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My wife shut the door 12 years ago...Finally about a month ago, I decided I was tired of being patient and could not live with the idea ofnever having sex again.. so in the last Month or so, I have had 7 visits with 3different women and I am lovin it... 12 years is a long time .. I have a lot of time to make up.. wearestillmarried.. 41 years in afew weeks.. Iwork, she hasn't for12years..I use her social security to pay for my fun.. I suppose that's payback..
2 months, three days, 17 hours and 27 minutes, at that time you can feel free to go fuck around to your heart's content. lol
The real answer is going to range from "the first time she say no" to "never". Some people might say that the moment she doesn't meet your needs you have the "right" to step out on her. Others might say that marriage vows are forever, and still others might say that rather that stepping out and becoming a cheater, it might be more "honorable" for lack of a better word, to simply ask for a divorce.
None of these are the right answer for everyone, and none are the wrong answer. We all know there is no "one" answer for everyone.
This also relates to the previous post about relationships. In my opinion, there are many different issues in any relationship but the one that always seems to be brought up is the sex part and whether this is cheating. There are lots of other reasons why relationships go south, it just isn't sex. I'm in a situation where my wife could care less about sex, and when it happens it is me forcing myself (Not physically forcing) which then makes it feel like rape to some extent, not lovemaking as it should be. So from my end if I cheat sexually on her, then I'm the asshole and this possibly could lead to divorce and then she gets half of my stuff and a family unit gets broken apart. But what about what she is doing to me??? Ignoring someone's needs is just as bad as me f^*@ing a provider. So all of you will say, "just get a divorce and be happy". Well when kids are involved this is not so easy. I grew up being raised by a single mom and while she did a fine job, I needed a father figure in my life....full time, not just seeing him every other weekend. I think that boys especially grow up to be big pussies when there is no father figure around. I truly believe that children need both a mother AND a father to properly raise them. (Don't even talk about a gay or lesbian couples raising kids....that's a whole other post!) So what if you're in a shitty relationship?? Whether it be lack of sex, or lack of communication or just plain growing apart, I do think if you have young children, you need to stick it out, suck it up and keep the unit together for the sake of the kids. I know that sounds so corny and cliche but I believe it. We humans are great at faking it aren't we??? Look at all the posts about how many times these providers "orgasm" during these sessions!!!
The other thread got too long that not all comments were seen, but someone said something great, that if you were decent and a good man and she doesn't give you sex, then get away from that crazy bitch.
One person I see regularly literally breaks my heart, very upfront about getting sex once a year, it's on his birthday. I can't imagine being so delusional that you think it's ok to view sex as a "gift" to your significant other that is so treasured you only give it once a year. It's just mean. Your phrase of "makes it feel like rape," wow, that was really vivid.
I really wish I could poll this type of women and seriously ask the reason for withholding, are kids that tiresome? Is balancing work and home just too exhausting? Apart from the physical issues like menopause, why do so many women stop wanting to have sex???
Honestly I've never heard that as a reason when stating reasons why someone is moving on. I've heard as a matter of course each side bash each other for their shortcomings...but that was/is just sour grapes.
The primary reasons seem to be over money. And it is at both spectrums of that curve.
As marriages disintegrate it's easy to blame one another for a variety of issues...but sex or lack thereof has never come up in my experiences. It's simply a symptom of a much larger problem.
I'd love to see the reason for marital dissolution as "lack of sex".
Then decided to go back to the hobby.
A decision I've never regretted.
but not in the "usual" way. My wife was still more than willing to have sex with me, but physically she aged ten years in a single year, and mentally she aged a good twenty. I simply lost any and all desire to have sex with her. I'd rather jerk off than have sex with her it got so bad.
I had one of those "moments of clarity" one day when we were sitting on the couch together watching some insipid show she liked and she started talking about the future and specualated on what we would be doing and where we would be in twenty year. All of a sudden it dawned on me that she thought we would still be together in twenty years and I couldn't stand another twenty minutes. Within a week we had started divorce proceedings and it was the best money I ever spent.
Was it anything like this?
-- Modified on 11/14/2013 1:57:50 PM
I am glad someone here gets it.
sex had little to do with the divorce...at least as the primary reason.
As you discussed you felt like you needed to leave your own home to be away from the soon-to-be ex to play golf (or whatever other reasons). And then you commented that you wanted to BK your company so she wouldn't get any more from you.
Most of my cases revolved around that type of marital asset. Generally the hubby wants to protect his Company and is ready to embark on another adventure....not with the woman that he married years earlier.
And some are like you in that they much prefer to be alone and simply fuck a gal here and there. And not have to deal with developing or maintaining any relationship.
Funny thing is that when I've been brought into cases of a W-2 dude with no real assets...they (as in the hubby and wife) fight over the most bizarre and inconsequential things. Those with serious assets seem to, in many instances, have an understanding that paying some lawyers is counter-productive to keeping the wealth amongst themselves.
There is a nice market for reselling old golf balls LOL
I had one of those "moments of clarity" one day when we were sitting on the couch together watching some insipid show she liked and she started talking about the future and specualated on what we would be doing and where we would be in twenty year. All of a sudden it dawned on me that she thought we would still be together in twenty years and I couldn't stand another twenty minutes. Within a week we had started divorce proceedings and it was the best money I ever spent.
The money had next to nothing to do with it, I did't WANT to BK my company, I wanted to make a clean break with no reason to have any future ties with her as we had no children together, IOW I wanted to be free at any price, and that's exactly what I did. That's the reason divorce is so expensive, IT"S WORTH IT!!!
and I also don't want to be alone to fuck a girl "here and there" you do seem to have a knack for mistating my intentions don't you. Let me try this again. I found myself no longer attracted to my soon to be ex wife. Not only did I lose all desire to fuck her, but the thought of growing old and never fucking another woman was simply not acceptable to me. IF I had still found her attractive IOW if the sex was still good, I most likely would have stayed in my marriage, but the thought of having her and only her as my sex partner was too unthinkable to bear, so I got out.
Sex of course was not the only thing, but it was a major factor in my decision to get divorced.
and to go back to my earlier statment, I don't want to "simply fuck a girl here and there" I am a pig and I love fucking a different lady every single day, and for the most part that's what I do. I will tire of this someday, but not until I get tired of it of my own accord. That could happen tomorrow, or it could take another twenty years. lol
Reading over your comments simply leads me to understand that any real bonds with the woman you married were never things that were sustainable. So unless I knew that you both married young with minimal relationship experiences....it is difficult to understand why you would think that staying if she were "more attractive" was real. That type of thought smacks of young kids who never really had a relationship prior....began to drift for a multitude of reasons...and is a major issue in any marriage.
As for a clean break...again it would have depended on where you were living and the State dissolution laws as to what would really be a clean break. I've been involved in cases years after a divorce where the non-propertied spouse was seeking damages for fraud...as in hiding assets or undervaluation of assets (especially a small business).
Being a single person is becoming more of the norm it seems. Especially for the women of today's world. Many don't need a man to "support" them...and quite often now I see the woman as the propertied spouse. That makes for entertaining arguments on spousal support and/or custody issues.
FWIW I suspect I have heard nearly every type of argument for divorces. But as I stated in my post...nearly all of them come down to money in one form or another. Sex...not so much LOL
and I also don't want to be alone to fuck a girl "here and there" you do seem to have a knack for mistating my intentions don't you. Let me try this again. I found myself no longer attracted to my soon to be ex wife. Not only did I lose all desire to fuck her, but the thought of growing old and never fucking another woman was simply not acceptable to me. IF I had still found her attractive IOW if the sex was still good, I most likely would have stayed in my marriage, but the thought of having her and only her as my sex partner was too unthinkable to bear, so I got out.
Sex of course was not the only thing, but it was a major factor in my decision to get divorced.
and to go back to my earlier statment, I don't want to "simply fuck a girl here and there" I am a pig and I love fucking a different lady every single day, and for the most part that's what I do. I will tire of this someday, but not until I get tired of it of my own accord. That could happen tomorrow, or it could take another twenty years. lol
Getting into a deep discussion about the variables of marital bliss...it helps if one is drinking LOL
and yes it was in that order.
CPA also has another, very good reason for wanting to have this conversation "over drinks" I am a lot less likely to tell him to "fuck off, and save his psychobabble for someone else" if we are drinking together.
Honestly, if CPA were in the same business as, let's say Madiba. Then sex would be behind every marital breakup, but since CPA is an accountant, the old saying "when you are a carpenter, every problem looks like a nail, and every solution involves a hammer" comes to mind. It's all a matter of perspective, sorry CPA, the rest of my evening involves football, drinking and gambling. if you would like a volunteer to be have his head shrunk, I am sure there are plenty of volunteers here to pick from.
we primates get miserable if someone isn't picking the lice out of our fur and offering them for a nibble. Would be interested to know from the mongers, in a typical two hour session how much time do you spend actually doing the nasty and how much time do you spend just holding, caressing, or otherwise grooming?
Mine had nothing to do with money. Sex was definitely on the table in several forms: lack of; her weight (she doubled in size from the time we were married); and her drinking (1 to 2 quarts of wine most every night)
When anyone is drunk more often than not, that is in all likelihood NOT the person you were attracted to in the beginning.
Had your wife not become a "falling down" drunk would you still be married?
Unfortunately this is not unique as a problem. And if she was sober long enough to realize that she has become something else perhaps she could have fixed that problem. Same as going on a diet. Those are all quite solvable. The number of people living with prescription drug issues may exceed those with drinking problems.
I'm an alcoholic as well, sober for over 6 years. If you know anything about alcoholism, you know that the person's life changes drastically when he/she quits. People you thought were your friends shun you, as they were drinking buddies, not friends. In my case, my wife and I were to a great extent drinking buddies. It hadn't always been that way. She could get drunk and point to me as the drunk, as I drank more than she did. When I quit, she was on the spot. I still loved her, and wanted us to stay together. I couldn't deal with her drinking, though, which got much worse after our move to the south (her life's dream, then she's not happy here, and now I'm here alone).
The weight issue was major, but never discussed. She knew it was a problem for me, but never tried to lose weight. In 1995 (I'm sure I've mentioned this before) I made her an offer: she wouldn't have to work. All she would have to do is go to the gym regularly, lose weight, and regain to the extent possible at least some of the gorgeous figure she had when we were younger. I was making enough money that her income wasn't necessary. She refused. She always had a "take it or leave it" attitude when it came to her imperfections.
I could still have sex with her, despite the weight, because I loved her. That's a difference I see between GaGambler and myself, unless I'm reading his posts wrong.
You can't blame another person for YOUR actions or your feelings. If YOU are feeling frustrated from lack of sex, why can't YOU be the one to go out and find a damn hobby other than this one? Sorry, but I know so many people (yes men) who are happy without having sex at every whimb. Why...because they are mature men led around by their decisions and not their emotions or their d*ck. If you were given a choice of losing a child or never having sex again to save that child, what would you choose? Puts things in perspective does it not? People make far too big of a deal over something so fkin stupid...you won't die without sex, just like you won't die without friends and a career.
I actually took up golf, and played every fucking day just to get four hours away from HER. If I didn't have the good sense to get a divorce, this would have most likely have been the next hobby I would have taken up, but instead of enjoying it freely and openly, I would have been one of these guys skulking around terrified of getting caught.
The more I think about it, the happier I am that I made the right decision, for me at least. I never could be one of those guys who live for that one hour a week or a month in which to be happy. Truth be told, I am happy almost all the time.
Exactly, you are now BOTH happy. So fkin simple lol.
about twenty years since we've spoken come to think of it, but even if she is not happy,(which I sincerely hope she is) I am happy enough for the both of us, and pig that I am, that's all I really care about at this point
is more than getting your rocks off. Sure sometimes it's just horny sex. But there is all kinds of sex. Sometimes you feel the love towards another so much you have to express it in a physical way. Other times, it can be to comfort and share sorrow. Lets not leave out the angry sex. There are a million emotions and they translate to sexual expressions. There is an intimacy in marital sex that you can't get from a casual encounter. It bonds two people. The lack of this intimacy hurts more than the loss of sex. Maybe that's why the GFE seems to be so popular.
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-- Modified on 11/14/2013 10:54:16 AM
-- Modified on 11/14/2013 10:59:36 AM
You prove my point, about why I call BS that p4p for 'most' men is JUST the physical act. Many are in fact trying to BUY the emotions they are missing at home, and those are simply not for sale. REAL intimacy cannot be bought...you can turn a p4p date into that if both parties are open, but you're not ever buying that.
Just as there seems to be a strain on this board that believes we hobbyists are nerdy losers who have to P4P because they're too socially inept to get it any other way I think there's also a tendency amongst some to believe we lead wretched accursed lives from which this is our only and fleeting relief, our drug if you will. Well I suppose there's room for that. Buta lot of us are aactually quite well adjusted, successful in our chosen fields and able to carry on a meaningful discussion with attractive women--nay even playfully flirt with them--without soiling our Depends. As for why this recreation I think for every man its different and each man makes the choice--it's not a decision we crowd source. For those who are single frankly it's reliable, you meet very attractive women who you already know will sleep with you and it can allow you to indulge in some pretty naughty fantasies without fear of offending the sensibilities of your date. For those who are married I think there's a similar very rational calculation at work: Some naughty fun, some indulgences that you're unlikely to get (and may not even want) at home, and yes some relief from near or totally sexless marriages. But I think many of those men also do very much care for their wives, have wonderful travel and other adventures with them, find them intellectually compatible and emotionally complementary and derive deep and meaningful benefits from their relationships. And they hobby to have sex--not to replace or displace those bonds they enjoy at home.
Of course I realize there is an emotional component to P4P--albeit limited and hopefully subtle-- and in fact without it the
act quickly becomes rutting. And I also realize all this rationalization won't mean shit to an SO who finds out. Nor will it shield any of us from ruination, a trip across the Stygian shores, Karmic retribution or whatever else may be the wages of our dalliances. But until then I just thought I would offer a perspective from those of us who don't believe we are living lives of unrelenting misery and gloom from which we must occasionally escape lest we drown in our own tears.
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Maybe .....just maybe...our wives don't have sex with us is because we are assholes. Just saying,...
always two sides.
I would never think of leaving her. We still do things together and travel to many places for vacations. I actually miss her when she is away for a while. The first couple days when she is away, I feel total freedom. But as the days go on, I start thinking about her. I guess I am just good at compartmentalizing sex.
She actually caught me last year. She was furious for a while but mostly at the money I spent in this hobby. I guess she realizes many men are hunters and are always on the lookout for beautiful women. Being French also helps since she is used to so many French men having mistresses. I laid low for 6 months and saw a shrink for 4 months to discuss my need for seeing escorts. In the end, nothing was resolved. I should have used the money for hobbying instead of wasting them on some psycho babbles. LOL.
Ha, me too! If I get caught, I know for a fact that my wife would lose it more because of the money spent than the sex..
hunhog & cannonhome1...
combine those two and you have a pretty relevant answer..
Physical along with emotion in a marriage is important... One bounces off the other.. Looking elsewhere for something missing & still keep the current situation to isn't wrong... But don't do it if u feel guilty... Nothing worse then having a visitor who sits whining about he's significant other while their cocks in ones mouth or anywhere else... Lol
I have a client whom I see on a weekly basis who has an open relation, as long as he doesn't discuss he's wandering his significant other turns a deaf ear.... They have a best friend marriage....
Without married gents where would this business be?...... Lol....
A beautiful buyer's market for we of the maritally unencumbered ilk.
Or would that be renter's market?
When my Ex and I found we were oil & water she recommended we simply live as roommates in separate bedrooms in the home. But she was EMPHATIC about me NOT seeing any women on the outside.
To me when a person refuses to have sex with their partner and also refuses to let them seek sex elsewhere, they are dooming themselves to a life of hell as well as their poor partner. Why not let him seek sex with professionals??
I know London thinks people should just learn to do without it (sex), but that's like telling someone that they should stop listening to music or eating something they love. What's the point of being human at that point??
At least give your wife an opportunity to respond.
I know nothing about your marriage. But I do know enough about relationships to know that problems thrive on both sides of the fence. How a conversation like that might go is a crapshoot; only you could make a good guess. But you never know. You might be surprised.
And, If you don't have the conversation first, you now have to construct an alternate secret life. Who wants this?
While you hope she'll never find out, chances are pretty good she will (even if she never mentions it). And, if (could as easily be when) she finds out, options for any reasonable discussion might be gone. Along with a shitload of your shared assets when her divorce attorney is done with you.
In my experience, ultimatums don't tend to fly too good in relationships. So telling her she now has to do "x" or you will start doing "X" might not go over well. But, no matter how it goes you will know you gave it an honest shot.
And, whatever her answer is, now BOTH of you have an opportunity to weigh your options.
Agree 100%. But I think these sorts of conversations should happen *before* marriage because it is just silly to think that neither partner will bore of the other physically one day. It's just something that will happen to most people. Some couples may be on the same page physically (equivalent libidos throughout marriage and always attracted to their partner), but that's so rare. It is far more common that people desire something else. Many may not act on that desire, but like I said above, what's the point if you can't have sex? or listen to music? Or eat something you love? So discuss what might work should the practically inevitable happen. Outsourcing? Swinging? Separation? Divorce? Living as best friends while allowing playtime outside the house? The discussion is worth having.
And if not before the vows, certainly later down the road when it happens. Then, if the desiring partner steps out, the non-desiring partner can't say they didn't see it coming.
Yep, it is unrealistic. Coming from someone who might not have ever cheated but also can't stomach the same guy for more than say six months, I would never make that promise of "forever" again...unless we lived in two different states and only saw each other twice a month. That, I could do forever lol.
I believe in the fantasy of marriage, but no longer for myself. I am simply not made that way, and I am tired of making excuses for it. People think something is wrong with a woman when we all of a sudden don't want or need a man around to be happy. I don't get it. This bs about having to be married to be whole is nonsense. Wholeness comes from WITHIN, not from being a codependent. I can depend on Jesus lol.
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