I don't mean adore men, love men, appreciate men, love to spend time with men, etc, etc.

I mean respect men.  You know what the word means.

I respect all men, as long as they return the respect back. Also, the number one man that I respect the most: My Daddy I love you.

Always your little girl,

Mel

I have found that most GFE providers , especially the more mature ones, have respect for their "dates" directly proportional to the level of courtesy and respect extended to them by their dates.  The moral of the story:  If you want a great GFE experience, provide your date with a BFE experience.

Benjamin...
Ulysses...
Andrew...

Kinda disappointing.

Courtesy is not the same as respect.

Ditto! Maybe I've become jaded over the years, but most of the ladies look at us as nothing but ATM's with legs.

As May West would say, "its not the life in my men, it the men in my life"...

I find that men are easier to get along with than women most of the time.  And my my closest friends are men.

I have more fun with my men than anything else I do and I have really met some of the best over my life time.

Life is just great....!!!

Corey Edwards, PhD Sexological Exams

If that is the case, then you should be looking at other types of girls, or drop out of the hobby then. If one is not getting any type of satisfaction of what he is doing, then maybe it's time for you to move on then? As for me, I enjoy men. Period. I love variety. Yes, this is a job, but it's something that I do enjoy. No matter how much money one makes, he/she better be happy at what they are doing, otherwise, it's not worth it. Lets not all put generalizations in here, and assume that we are all the same, please. It wouldn't be fair of me to assume that all men are this way or that, is it? I could say that all men are a@@holes, but I know that they are not. There are some really nice, decent, wholesome men out there, and those are the ones that I tend to meet, enjoy, and welcome back for more

My 2 cents..

Mel





-- Modified on 8/2/2003 8:36:23 AM

Hahaha. And vice versa: are there any men here at TER who can honestly say they respect providers ... or respect women, at all, for that matter?

I hear your implications. I understand your implied point. I, too, feel your pain. In my experience with providers, with women in general, I seldom get the impression that the other person is going out of her way to figure out how to respect me, out of some personal choice. She may "end up" respecting and even liking me (sort of, "by default," as it were), or she may "pretend" to respect me as long as I'm the paying customer. But her base understanding of human interaction is the following:

what's in it for me?

You seem to be implying by your question, that you'd like to meet some people who are a little less cynical about life. "Do providers actually respect men?" implies a larger issue, as "Are there any providers who would do this for me if I didn't pay them $300 an hour?" or even, "Why can't I charge for sex like they can, and why is the power so imbalanced and why am I the one who is seemingly controlled by his biology and not vice versa? How do I get out?"

By the way, you may not be implying those ideas, but I certainly am inferring them. That's where I'm coming from. I want "free" of the imbalance of power. It ruins my day, day after day after day. Women control me, by means of their femininity and my desire for it. And they aren't interested in sharing or helping or making my life easier or, for that matter, "respecting" me in any of those terms. They're interested in keeping my money.

I remember once, a long time back, on these very boards, the following amazing event.

A very very beautiful woman -- and I know she was beautiful because she has a website -- described an occasion that she very much wanted to share. Through a sexual act, she had "seen the goddess" and had experienced such a wonderful human interaction that it changed her life, made her open up to the wonder of the world, just got her to be more spiritual and happy all at once. I felt this was a great thing. She went on to describe how it had happened -- she and another very very beautiful woman had gotten together with that other woman's extremely gorgeous Chippendale hunk of a boyfriend, and they had had sex in a "meaningful" and "mutually respecting" way. This was just great. For them.

What amazed me about the story was two-fold. First, that the woman was describing this experience to us as though it were a novelty to her -- as though it were the first time any human had discovered the deep and powerful interaction between sexual activity and human trust, between spirituality and connecting with body as well as mind. She had invented this wheel, and she was damned proud of it. She did not once express the sense that she was following in humanity's footsteps, but rather that she herself was the more enlightened one for having created a path the rest of us might follow. She presented herself as a type of "savior" or "messiah" figure, "helping" the readership to open minds and change souls. I found that patronizing.

The second thing that amazed me about the story was that she took occasion to tell the rest of us that we were the problem. Why can't we all just have better sex, like that, all the time, she asked? Why are people so hung up on sexuality, and on Puritanical restrictions, and on silly things like monetary exchange and tit (ahem) for tat, that we aren't all helping one another to see the goddess (or the god, for that matter) more often? I found that fault-finding to be quite offensive. Naturally, for most men on the boards, it isn't the MEN who are resisting the opportunity to have sex with the women, it's quite the opposite.

This set of questions of hers were rapidly followed by a thousand horny bastards hollering "I'm in, I'm in! I'll help you see the goddess again!" Of course, she had forgotten that SHE was the one who charged $300 an hour, SHE was the one universally desired by the opposite gender because of her amazing body, perfect face, flawless breasts. SHE was the one preventing US from experimenting, growing, changing, because of her own insecure need to restrict others' access to her.

I, too, would love to see the god or goddess, to have mind-blowing physical experiences, and even better spiritual experiences, thanks to sexuality. I tend to feel (to bring this topic back to its original subject) that the restrictions placed on me, not only by society at large, but also by the beautiful women I would LIKE to get intimate with, are what's preventing this spiritual development of mine. To hear a stunningly beautiful woman who would NOT date me without being paid for it, announce that I was the hung up one and she was much more enlightened because she had (on this one special occasion) "freely" engaged in sex with a more open mind, was utterly galling. Infuriating. I've spent most of my adult life chasing around trying to find a woman who would have pleased me physically as much as that hot hot hot looking provider would have, and not being able to find her, or if I have, then I also found that she wasn't going to be my partner in human respect, and instead she was going to squeeze as much money out of me as she felt the market and my wallet would bear, for the "privilege" of sharing the goddess with her. And now I'm being told I'm the one who's restrictive, and needs to lighten up?

Anyway, as it relates to "respect," monetary exchange for sex can be quite respectful or not. People can be rude to one another -- as another post says, courtesy is not the same as respect -- or quite polite. But to think of that as a "respectful" situation is problematic, to me. It doesn't provide what I want, which is the knowledge that my own priorities and needs are valuable to the other person. To "respect" someone is to not only give them the common courtesies, or even the BFE courtesies, in the hopes that they exchange for you exactly what you want; rather, it is to go farther, and come to understand what it is like to be that person.

Personally, I regret having come that far. I've learned what I know about women, to date, from people who didn't respect me. And now I am learning not to respect them. The neediness, the selfishness, the stunningly unapologetic nature of the arrangement -- "I'm getting what I want; what's WRONG with that?" as though it were excuse enough to simply enumerate it -- all amaze me. Have these people no worldly awareness, no education, no sense that humanity is, itself, something to cherish? That would have been respect. I've never gotten it from a human female, whether provider or civilian, whether she were the most well-meaning or the most cynical. I've gotten IMITATIONS of it, in the form of good service for an hour or good girlfriendness in exchange for my even better boyfriendness, but I've never actually believed that the other person was capable of walking a mile in my moccasins. And I have done that -- walked a mile in hers -- and am appalled at where I went. The childish, needy, self-determined, pathetically dependent, un-self-sufficient paths I trod ... Oh!

(cont'd)

(cont'd from part 1)

So, now, I'm coming to a new experience about the term "respect." I'm stopping the New-Age-y version of it up in my mind, and trying to forget universal human love and fellowship that will bring us out of our benighted darkness and into a new world of sharing and forgiving. Now, I'm thinking of "respect" in that Texan gunslinger sort of way ... you get the respect that you earn. Treat a woman like shit, and ... unfortunately ... she'll respect you because she knows you have power over her and are willing to wield it. Show a woman what you COULD do for her (and, if you're a cagey bastard, withhold it but PRETEND that you're willing to offer it) and she'll respect you enough to chase you down and try to cajole it out of you.

But offer a woman respect before making some sort of arrangement where you're guaranteed reciprocation, and -- again, unfortunately -- you're 99% likely to find that she will take without giving simply because she can. I don't find men to be that way. I find, generally, that if you start out by putting your offer on the table, he'll do the same, out of RESPECT. There are situations in which all humans are more "what's in it for me" than in other situations, like in business, haggling, international boundary disputes, the like.

But I would have liked to have thought that romance and love would not have been one of those situations -- women force it to be. And that mistake of theirs probably harms them more than me, in the long run: not only because I've figured it out and now know how to avoid personal injury from it; but also because romance and love are the sphere that fulfill a woman more than a man, and more than any other sphere in the world. They've shot themselves in the foot, while aiming to shoot us merely to control us, the ninnies!

This has turned into another of Book Guy's misogynistic posts. I don't want to be a misogynist. Can anyone refute some of the things I've said, help me to be more respectful? I hope so, but I haven't seen it yet ...


-- Modified on 8/2/2003 11:25:20 AM

If you genuinely don't want people to think of you that way (as only respecting money, not men) then prove otherwise. Offer your services to respectful men for free.

If you aren't willing to do that, then you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. I realize there are probably a few logistical problems to work out -- how to figure out who is respectful; how to make a profit off other business arrangements while also giving up sex as it was meant to be shared; etc. -- but if you genuinely can't see your way through to treating male desires as your own, then you can't respect men. And even if you're one of the most convivial, courteous providers out there, your disrespect will continue to show itself to a man in terms of the manner in which he must offer to you Franklin, Jackson, etc. in order for you to offer him the right to be himself.

Evidently you didn't want me to get it, cuz you didn't actually engage in discourse. OK, so it's OK with you that I continue to think of you as wrong? If so, thanks for agreeing with me ...

The obliquity and the "" could both be taken as very patronizing ... I'm sure you didn't mean that. Did you?

LOL, just kidding, but your statement "My closest friends are men" reminds me of that Watt statement in the Reagan era, whatever it was, and the comic takeoffs on it, "Some of my closest friends are Jewish."

The implication being that, in the mind of the prejudiced, to be a Jew was a problem but that he could nevertheless have a token friend or two of that faith and thus automatically no longer be prejudiced, even though we all know that isn't the case. Same thing about "men", but double funny -- first that it's a "minority" group (haha1) and second that you can de-prejudize yourself by token-befriending (haha2).

Now that I've explained it, it's not funny any more ...

So, although Mel says she respects her clients, you say she can't respect them since she engages in commercial transactions with them?  That would mean NO VENDOR can respect their buyers IN ANY COMMERCIAL VENTURE.

The logic escapes me.

I feel very strongly about how I feel. You seem to feel the same. So, lets just agree to disagree, politely, before we cancel each other out lol


Mel

That's the point you and I agree on.  Your post was misogynistic and I think you need psychiatric help.  You are aggregating all women into those who you have seen **thus far**; maybe not even that.  Maybe it's the ones you find hostile that you use as a reference guide for who women are, while the women that have been kind to you, you just forget ("the good men do lies in their graves").  It's a form of stereotyping.  Unfortunately, it also seems to be warping your personality and that's why I recommend seeing someone.  I am not a psychiatrist or in the health care field -- it's just a recommendation from a fellow poster.

I also think you confuse respect and empathy.  I would say you are asking whether providers have empathy for you -- not respect; do they really understand what it's like to be a john.  Some may, most probably will not.  But, we are here for commercial purposes.  We deal in transactions.  If this is too cold, calculated, or whatever, you really should consider leaving the hobby -- it may just cause you more harm than it's worth.

Didn't mean to imply what you inferred. You're right, though, to point out the seeming inconsistency implied by my statements. It's certainly there. But that's just cuz I wrote it poorly.

I was being a bit curt and non-sequitur-ish in order not to engender a whole discussion on this subject. I certainly don't mean to suggest that businesspeople should give away services for free. Hahaha ...

You can get a much better view of my impressions on this subject lower down this thread, in my long statement (of two parts!) titled "what about vice-versa". I think then you'll see what I mean, whether or not you end up agreeing with me.

Well, I have considered "leaving the hobby," just to allay your concerns on that matter. In fact, I effectively have, except on those occasions when (to describe it in terms that will coincide with this discussion) I am emotionally prepared to deal with the concept that it's just a business transaction. On those occasions, fine, I hobby and don't expect otherwise. (As a tangent to that, you'd find it no surprised to hear I'm not after a GFE ... it just doesn't make sense to me.)

So, as far as the hobby goes, yeah, I'm willing to swallow the bitter pill of business-minded-ness. What I'm not happy about, is how that business-minded-ness ALSO appears in everyday life, in all my past dealings with civilian women. And I should add, that there are plenty of unattractive, overweight, physically unappealing (to me) civilian women whose attitudes I frankly don't care about. This makes mine an even LESS representative sample than you have pointed out. In the long run, I'm only complaining about the HOT women I've tried to get with.

But I can't shake this need for HOTness. Can you? If there's some sure-fire way to LIKE being with ugly chicks ... ?

-- Modified on 8/2/2003 1:08:05 PM

Actually, I'm a pretty happy guy. People who know me, find me optimistic, and don't tend to state that I "need therapy" or any other hints that casual friends often give one another.

I don't assess myself poorly. Heh. It's the women who seem to ... :-P ...

But, your abandonment of the issues in the discussion, in favor of (self-congratulatory?) character-assassination, is the sort of thing that might make me very angry and maybe even need therapy. Is it considered appropriate on most bulletin boards to abandon "2 + 2 does SO equal 4" in favor of "you need therapy"?

This is the third passive-aggressive, slyly smug post by you, Melinda. If you'd like to enter into a DISCUSSION, then DISCUSS. Don't flame any more, thanks.


-- Modified on 8/2/2003 1:01:58 PM

Trust me, I am very direct, and straight to the hip. As my top post stated, that is how I feel as a person. What I am getting from you, is that the way that I feel, is wrong (?) The way that you feel is right (?). That my feelings are not validated here. Is that is what you are saying?

Yes, you are correct, I was wrong in flaming you. THAT I do apologize for. But, not for the latter (re: my first post)

Sincerely,

Mel




-- Modified on 8/2/2003 1:18:19 PM

sounds like you need to spend another evening with me...
food, drinks, laughs and love.

(i aint got nothing but love for the good ones out there, and you are, definately, one of them)

and, ftr, ya gotta Respect to have love. thats a given.

sometimes i feel so sad for yall, but i also know thats why i'll always have at least a couple dates a month...

hugs,
nicole

That's like saying if I love books so much that I should be a librarian without pay. I loved teaching as well, but there's no way in hell I'd teach eight year-olds for free. I respect the freedom of inforamation, literacy, the imagination, education, teachers, and parents, but I expect to be paid for librarianship and teaching elementary school just as I expect to be paid when I'm preforming fellatio on Singleton.

As you are using an alias, I can't see your history, but if you feel the need to ask this question, you have either been seeing the wrong providers or you have unrealistic expectations about what to expect from them in this arena.

the way for a woman to prove she respects a man is to schtup him for free?

all of us who are burdened with the need to work for a living trade something of ourselves for money. are you saying it is impossible to enjoy something you do for money, and impossible to respect he or she that pays you? will you go to work for free to prove you respect your boss? and what will you say to the electric and gas company when they want their money? "heat my house for free to prove you respect me?"

i bet there ARE a lot of women in this profession who don't like or respect men much, just as i bet there are a lot of men who feel the same way about women. but if that is your experience, don't assume it applies to everyone, and don't take a generalization and try to apply it to everybody. in MY personal experience, i've met a number of women who generally seem to enjoy what they do. Mel is one of the best. why don't you read her five pages of reviews? NOBODY is THAT good an actress

depending on exactly how one interprets Corey Edwards' post.  Still, I would've expected at least a couple more.  Fascinating.

as long as we are all inferring here (the original post of this thread just asked if there were any providers that respect men), let me tell you what i've inferred from your posts:

1. you feel that women should be more respectful to you, since you are always respectful to them. well... not to the ugly ones of course, but at least to the ones you want to boink.
2. you feel that it would be a better world if the women you wanted, wanted you back, and stopped their silly policy of holding out on you or charging you money. man, i feel for you here - why don't women realize that all that matters is that I want THEM! they'll learn to love me in time....
3. you feel that if women really liked sex and really respected men, they would give it away - frequently, unihibitedly (and preferably to you... well, not the ugly ones) and find some other way to make a living.
4. you feel that abuse is the only real way to guarantee respect from your woman. it's true that many dysfunctional women do respond to this kind of treatment. if that's what you want, then by all means strap on your six guns. however, if you accidentally found a real, confident, intelligent, RESPECTFUL woman, don't be surprised when all that's left of her is a pair of swinging saloon doors.

"To "respect" someone is to not only give them the common courtesies, or even the BFE courtesies, in the hopes that they exchange for you exactly what you want; rather, it is to go farther, and come to understand what it is like to be that person."

not a bad sentiment, but lets face it, it's not in the dictionary - i mean, you DID just make it up. there are different kinds of respect.... basic respect, deserved by any human being, DOES simply requires common courtesy and regard for anothers' feelings - but not in exchange for anything. it should be given freely until the recipient proves he or she does not deserve it. deeper respect has to be earned; the fact that you want to have sex with a woman because she is good looking and has a sexy body does not earn respect points - and whether she decides to say yes, no, or yes but it will cost you - respect does not enter into the equation.

"But offer a woman respect before making some sort of arrangement where you're guaranteed reciprocation, and -- again, unfortunately -- you're 99% likely to find that she will take without giving simply because she can"

- if you are looking for guaranteed reciprocation, then you are not talking about respect. basic respect must be given freely and depper respect must be earned.

- 99%? are you sure it's not 98%? 92.5%? where did you get that figure and how many trials were in the sample?

- are you saying that men never take without giving? 99% of american housewives may beg to differ (or maybe it's only 92.5%, i'm not sure)

bottom line - you seem to be annoyed with women because they have something you want (well, not the ugly ones) and they won't just GIVE IT TO YOU!

welcome to the whole wide world.

He seems even more annoyed that there are women who

a.  he finds ugly.

b.  don't look like Kate Moss with saline dd's.


How dare women in this world be unique? Why cannot they all look like supermodels?

Respect DOES mean to appreciate, wanting to spend time with, as well as having high regards and esteem.

NO, not all men can EARN my respect. Very few even try.

I do reserve my respect for those that earn it disregarding GENDER.

It's a case by case scenario.  Why the generalization?

I feel what is most important is SELF respect; for if you've not garnered respect of yourself, how can you earn it from others?

*smooch*
Elise

Exactly....You took the words right out of my mouth.Why is everyone making it a gender issue.Respect is based mutually on the individuals involved,not male versus female.The sooner we all begin to realize that,the eisier human relations will be regardless of the situation invlolved.                                                     As a person first,then a provider,as an occupation second;I treat people accordingly.In the business I am in I feel we should be a group of people who genuinly enjoy variety & are highly skilled in catering to individual needs for that very reason.If you are not,you are doing a disservice to this business just because you need the money which can give the consumer a bad idea of what it means to do what we do.                                                          There's a BIG difference in a providers attitude toward a client when she enjoys her job & meeting new people & when she loaths mingling intimately with strangers & I would image she would see men in a light that the self proclaimed 'misogynist'gentleman above sees woman in.These unhappy woman may be the type of women he is meeting in real life & in the hobby,because remember for the most part;we are whom we attract.Human beings have a natural,unconcious desire to see themselves or who they desire to be in the eyes & character of others & sometime the reflection they get get back isn't always a pretty picture.Self reflection isn't always an easy thing nor is soul searching;especially if yours is lost& your not aware of it or willing to accept the truth about who you really are as a human being,male or female.                                                       Also,it seems that Mr.Misogynist is looking for love in an environment that is geared towards sexual pleasure & mutual reciprocation based on that alone;that's the wrong place to be looking.This is a business as many have stated above in which providers are available to give to gentlemen who do not have the desire or time to commit themselves to us in a full flegged relationship or commitment but still are in need of sexual gratification if even for a limitted time.This is what we're here for.Mr. Misogynist needs to realize the sacrifice we as providers are making to be able to accept this & be o.k. with this for a small financial compensation.                                               Because if you want to preach about societies standards & how it is supposed to be between a man & a woman, society has raised us to beleive that a man meets a woman he is smitten with,sweeps her off her feet,marries her,they have children,he goes to work & she takes care of the kids,stays at home & they live happily ever after,the end.But we live in a society where a woman may start off believing this,she gets knocked up has to raise the kid on her own & the father is no where to be found so she has no choice but to smile in the face of a man like Mr. Misogynist & be respectful/courteous.                                      Then we have woman;such as myself who have no kids,has no desire for kids(maybe I'll adopt when I'm older...lol)& loves the freedom & variety life has to offer,loves meeting new,unique individuals & definitly respects & is kind to the ones who respect & are kind to her.And is by no means dependent.                                                     If that was the case I would find myself clinging on to a man;one of my ex's & expecting or allowing him to take care of me.It is my Independence & desire for total freedom,sexually & otherwise that put me as well as many other providers in the occupation that we are in.                                                           How hard do you think it would be for a said 'drop dead geourgeous' or even fairly attractive woman to allow themselves to be taken care of by one man exclusively;not very difficult at all.But what comes with that;monogamy,exclusivity to that one man & in some cases controling behavior by said man & many of us just aren't with that.Societies cookie cuter standards just don't work for some people.Welcome to the real world 101.End of class.

-- Modified on 8/3/2003 3:37:04 AM

-- Modified on 8/3/2003 3:48:27 AM

the world of providers and clients.  Most of the providers who I have met who meet this description are here on the TER General Discussion Board.

I am sure you are respected by many people.

-- Modified on 8/3/2003 9:42:55 AM

case" approach is the same one I use, but I have been unpleasantly surprised by the number of providers I have met who do not share our approach, and seem to think that their male clients are inherently unworthy of respect.  Once they get to know me, they often change their mind, but many seem unwilling to even make the effort to challenge their own negative assumptions about men.

Do you think their problem is that they lack self-respect?

they don't respect me, I often find it harder to respect them, because I often conclude that they lack self-respect.

I agree that it is not hard to respect someone who respects you.

There is a simple answer to this;the way I see it that is.Some people either can only see the forest & some people can only see the trees.Both methods are wrong.If you only see one or the other you miss out on the beauty of both.                                                           In reference to this topic people;male or female(remember,it's a two way street)who do not respect people as individuals,cannot see the uniqueness of the tree;they only see the forest.                                               Meaning,they form an opinion based on life surcumstances & experiences they have had with others & mentally shove everyone that fits that profile into the same group,therefore having an opinion formed about who you are before they even meet you & feel you out(no pun intended..lol.)This eventually causes problems in that persons character & it shows in their attitude & behavior.                                                     I don't know if it's a lack of self respect more than it is a lack of self awareness & awareness of others individuality & how one person is not the other,they are simply who they are take it or leave it.That's the beauty of choice.                                                        When you are not self aware or aware of a potential flaw in your character you carry an energy around you that attracts other people who can potentially make you aware of these  flaws whatever they may be & like I said before,it ain't always a pretty picture or a comfortable situation.This though,may be the meaning of life itself;self awareness that is.I mean who wants to die not knowing who they are or who they are seen to be as a person by others...Sadam Husaain,maybe...LMAO.                                           A person who can only see the tree is paying so much attention to the detail & flaws of the tree & missing out on the beauty that the forest brings to the picture.                                                 Meaning,some people focus so much on others flaws that they miss out on the potential enjoyment the experience as a whole can offer them.I can think of a million scenarios for this one,but then my post would be way too long.                                                          To end my post I'll just say this;some people are just bitter & synicall about life in general & there's nothing anyone can do about it.Unfortunately us good people have to sometimes be exposed by their pessimist attitude unintentinally...and if your one of those good people my suggestion is;when you do,run like hell...lol.Ta Ta.

If they're paying me, I respect them. It's the guys who try to get it for free I don't respect. Don't they know I am worth it damnit!