I recently gave money to a regular provider with the understanding of future returns, but afterwards my skeptical side started to act up.

Did I make a mistake?
Will I see my returns? If yes, should I seek something special for my trouble?

Would you loan money to any other professional service provider? -e

That is crossing the provider/client line. Period.

Indeed, providers are professionals, and that is not something that a provider should reasonable expect from a client. That said, I've had one experience with a regular when I just started providing, a month or two in, when I was looking to buy a used car (I'd been cabbing to and from dates till that point). I trusted him enough to help me look for cars and test drive etc., and when we found the one I wanted I was about a thousand dollars short. He lent it to me and I called to re-pay him the following week, at which time he said he'd rather have me repay him in services than cash, so that's what we did. I'd say that a purely professional relationship is not one in which lending money is to be involved. That said, there can be a friendship aspect, and friends often do help each other out in many ways, one of which can be lending money. I'd say that if you are close to a provider and know her character, it is your own judgment call, but as a general rule, no provider should be asking a client to do so, nor should you feel obligated.

On a side note, there are some providers who offer special regular rates or packages- ie. you pay up front, and then get x number of sessions throughout the month or year, often with scheduling priority. I'd be interested to hear how this has worked out from other providers and hobbyists who have tried it. I think most providers are trustworthy and respectable women, but there are clearly some (as in any field) who are out to take advantage of people, so trust your instincts.

Finally, like I said, there's a difference between loaning money to someone you barely know, and doing so to someone you've known closely for months or years, no matter the context. Only you know the nature of your relationship with this provider and your expectations of her.

I've heard it said that in this context, loan money as if you are giving it. That is, if you can afford to do so and want to do so, do it, but do it with the knowledge that it might not be re-paid. It's kind of cynical, but it's also an interesting take- due to the no-strings nature of this hobby and the privacy and discretion required, you can't guarantee you'll be repaid. But if and when you are, it will be a pleasant surprise and will build trust and show the true character of your regular provider.

One other thing- while it may happen when a provider and client are close, and it may turn out well for all involved in some cases, it is not something a provider should ever ask. It should be up to the client to offer if he feels the desire to do so. Just as it is a provider's prerogative to give extra time or services to a client, and it is inappropriate for a client to expect or request such, no provider should ever, IMO, ask a client for money above and beyond the agreed exchange of her hourly companionship fee. There need to be clear boundaries, and to put a hobbyist (or a provider) in a situation in which s/he feels pressured or obligated is against the very nature of this hobby.

Just some things to think about.

XoXo,
Marea

-- Modified on 12/20/2007 11:43:06 AM

-- Modified on 12/20/2007 11:38:59 AM

but not every provider is as professional as Marea.

It is usually a bad idea, and we have seen enough threads on the Bosotn boards where this kind of deal went very bad.

But of course, YMMV....

but not every provider is as professional as Marea.

It is usually a bad idea, and we have seen enough threads on the Boston boards where this kind of deal went very bad.

But of course, YMMV....

A lot of things we don't know. How long have you know each other? Is she a good "friend"? There are so many factors. My friends repay me. You haven't given us enough information.

Like I said, in any field there are those who are unprofessional and take advantage of others. It is up to each individual hobbyist and provider to make such decisions and establish these boundaries, but in the general sense, I think 99.9% of the hobbying community would agree that money lending is crossing a line in this type of situation. But while generalizations and stereotypes exist for a reason, they don't speak to all individual intentions and outcomes. Best of luck,

XoXo
M

D4 - you were a little light with the details.  How much did you loan?  Others have already requested you to provide context for your relationship with this provider.

My feeling is to help her if you want.  Give freely if you are so inclined.  If she does pay you back it’s a bonus.  However, I think it is a mistake to expect anything in return.  Is your intention to exploit this situation?  If so, be careful as the tables may quickly turn.

Money almost always has a negative impact on friendship.  If you have something good going with her why ruin it?  Just help her (or don’t).  Don’t be greedy.

I have heard too many a bad tales about this very subject...
To many out there playing rip off..

My friend has a theory that everyone has friends that fall into concentric circles around themselves. Those people in the outer rings are acquaintances; as you move toward the center, the number of people tends to get fewer, and the closer a friend you consider them.

The absolute inner circle is populated with the very few people in your life that you can
1) count on in any circumstance
2) trust with most of your secrets
3) be 100% yourself with without fear of judgement
4) borrow money from, or loan money to

I have on occasion loaned money to people who were not in my inner circle. I always did so NEVER expecting to get it back - if I could not afford to lose the money, I did not make the loan. Sometimes I got the money back, sometimes I didn't, but I never lost any sleep over it.

Just my 2 cents.

I have had similar situation since being badly injured in an auto accident.I have rarely worked for the last 10 months. A am very close to many of my clients. They have helped me a great deal. I was able to avoid a very serious spinal surgery because of a loan for an expensive piece of medical equipment.
I will make payments when I can and we do have a written contract. You always put things writing and get a receipt when money is involved.
My client is not the type to try to take advantage of my misfortune but he does know that I need a lot of "attention" and when I am not in pain I am pretty one-track on "attention". I hope "attention" will help take his mind off the fact that still cannot pay him back but I am going to sell my car as soon as my little get around is ready and I don't need it.
You situation is more of a strictly business arrangement and you should have made it clear at the time that you want more than the money back. Putting it in writing helps keep that separate from your relationship.

It's a mistake even if you DO get your money back. They don't date us, we don't loan to them.

a few added details. not to many to potentially hurt feelings. A regular session was offered but due to my schedule I was not able to meet. The request was made to up-front the regular amount and the session would take place at a later date. I have known this provider for a couple months and we have a good rapore(spelling). but I am still a little wary.

Added note, We were supposed to make contact today but she has yet to return my call....

There was a lady in Las Vegas with strong reviews that "fell on hard times".  She began asking guys to pay today, date tomorrow, and to the best of my knowledge tomorrow never came.  She asked me, and I told her I'd pay her when I walked into the room.  That seemed OK (but not great) with her, and the time together was as good as always.  I knew her for over a year, and we got along fine as well.

She basically got run out of town...

I'm not saying that this girl is the same, but it does happen.  As others have said, if you're OK with never seeing the money again, then you're not losing anything.

Its generally not a good idea to loan money to a provider or friends with the expectation they will return it back.

If there is a friend that is really in need or an emergency situation I would help them out.

However, I would give the money without the expectation of them returning any favors for me or giving any of it back to me.

It has been my experience that a loan should always be considered the same as a gift!

I have done it twice with one lady.  I was paid back each time, although some negative feelings were generated when it could not be paid back promptly.  With that lady, I would probably do it again, even knowing that there are some risks.  I have also pre-paid for multiple meetings to occur in the future with no set time or schedule for the meetings.  This has worked out wonderfully.  It is very dependent on the level of trust and how bad you’ll feel burned if expectations are not met.  I don’t think that you should expect anything special unless it was explicitly discussed.

In my experience the quickest way to lose a friend is to lend them money.

A well-known provider on this board sold me a sob story last Christmas about eviction, her son's drug addiction and a host of other problems and asked for a loan, promising a note, collateral and the like.  I sent her a substantial sum of money with a note and a repayment schedule.  All I got back was an invitation to spend a night with her, which I did not want, and thereafter threats to "expose" me for extortion and suborning prostitution.  I don't even know whether I can take a "bad debt" deduction on my income taxes or not.

I'm not usually very gullible and think of myself as a decent judge of character, but I sure got taken in this time.

Occasionally, I have pre-paid for a single meeting when, for example, a traveling lady was a little short on airfare and the like, and I have never been burned in this setting.  Perhaps, in those cases, it worked out because advance payment was my idea, not hers.

Of course, YMMV.  LOL!

-- Modified on 12/20/2007 5:28:22 PM

Didn't work for me either.

Both times a sob story about not having money for HGH and another over late mortgage payments.

Both individuals promised future visits in repayment.

Both individuals long time friends. I really didn't expect repayment but in both cases it was the end of the friendship.

Live and Learn.

My vote: VERY bad idea

I found out that a lady I had seen several times ended up in a temporay bad spot from a mutual friend.  She had an illness that wouldn't allow her to see clients for quite a while.  

The lady I "gave" money to never asked for it but I knew that she had a small child so I called her and told her I was bringing her a check.  It was enough to make sure her and her child could eat for the time she was ill.  

This was not a loan or anything I expected returned.  To me it was helping a friend out that was in need.

My relationship was probably more friend than provider/client since we had spent some time off the clock before this.  She did "take care of me" a couple of times subsequently but that was probably more out of our friendship than owing me anything.  

I know it's not the same but many times good deads are returned.  As others have said, it you could afford to lose the money than you are OK and will know much more about this lady going forward.

Was this the original transaction?  If so, then it's not a loan but a deposit.  In the case of a deposit, you can rightfully insist on service at a mutually agreed time.

Human growth hormone?

"Neither a borrower or a lender be,
For borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry (work)
And loan oft loses both itself and friend."

Some people take HGH as a method of combating getting older.  It may have other uses, but I'm not aware of them.

DO NOT do this (sorry for shouting).

Speaking from personal experience, at best it leads to misunderstandings, and in the worst case it leads to bad feelings.

It is all a matter of how one views the world.

some view the world in general and human beings in it as crooks except themselves

and

others view the world in general as good and human beings in it including themselves as good until proven otherwise

Just matter of one's out look in life I suppose!

In or out of the hobby. My batting average with money and friends has been about equal in and out of the hobby.

With friends, male or female, I never loan money that  I can't write off as a gift. When you don't expect anything you are rarely dissappointed.

Yes.

I wouldn't even loan money to a GF, or finacee.. Sadly I'd trust a provider more than the aformentioned, but why give up front moneys to anyone. If she really makes you feel good, give her a nice tip, just' don't expect to get it back.

I always have 20 % extra with me to tip, whether they get it , is their call. Do something like that.

-m

It happens. I wouldn't fall for this at this stage in my life. I fell for alot of S*** with providers when I was in my teen's and early 20's. . I attribute it to being horrible with women in general . Although these days it's all a business transaction, so I'm not easily conned.

If the girls was hot enough, and made me feel a certain way , I might have poor judgment, and I think that happens alot.

-m