And I apologize in advance if I offend or overstep.

I think this board and my experiences with some of its members have given me a reasonable idea of the life of an independent provider.

I know some of you have come from agencies.  I don't have much feel for those provider's lives.  Half of me thinks they are being exploited, half thinks they are the girls that need someone else to run the business end while they take care of the personal end.

For those of you providers who came out of agencies, could you please tell me a little about that experience?  I almost (mostly?) feel guilty going to a regular agency, because the girls seem to get no say in who they are going to see or how many or ...  I'm not talking about upper end agencies, but the agencies for the more entry level girls.

Again, if this oversteps, I'm sorry.

There are dozens, no hundreds of legitimate agencies that do the necessary tasks of screening, advertising, securing incall locations etc.. What you are describing is a pimp, the type that most of us here despise. I am truly sorry your introduction to this business was as bad as you describe, but not all agencies are as "pimpish" as what you had to suffer through.

Most true "agencies take well less than 50% and provide a very valuable service to those ladies who are either incapable, unwilling or otherwise not wanting to deal with advertising, screening, booking, renting and being responsible for an incall location. To compare all agencies to being a pimp is very unfair IMO.

That said, I too prefer Indies, they are free to set their own rates, hours etc, and aren't as subject to "clock watching" as they aren't "on the clock' except when they want to be, unlike most agency women who have no control over their scheduling

I used to hear horror stories about girls being abused. The pimps used to test drive them, threaten them to see 10-12 clients a day, and one girl even got threatened at gun point, one time.  I read the indictment in great detail along with being confided in..

Hell ya.. I felt guilty as shit, but nothing you can do about what happened in the past. I've "mostly" seen independents since their bust in 2010-11. A lot of agencies are run like meat factories, but there are some well run agencies. You just have to know which. If the girl, after leaving the agency, talks good stuff about her ex-employer, you can have some faith that the agency was decently managed.  

Just my two cents.  


-- Modified on 3/27/2014 8:48:31 PM

but I will agree that with few exceptions Zack of 100 proof of Las Vegas is one that comes to mind, agencies run by women do tend to be less oppressive and exploitive than those run by men which more frequently tend to be "pimpish"

Ad malls run by men like GLS "Ginas Little Secret" are also a completely different story as the women represented are independent advertisers not employees.

But [I think] you may need to find a 3rd half. That would be the half that views sex work as work (unique work, but still work), and extends enough credit to the women working for agencies to understand that they do have a choice in whether they decide to keep that job.  

And maybe some women simply 'prefer' (not need) to leave the business end to an agency owner. Not much different than someone choosing to stay with an employer (pick any employer) instead of stepping out into an independent business venture

I never felt exploited, just very annoyed!  The agency's vision of the business and what I thought it should be was night and day.  I stayed about 5 weeks and then went independent, best decision ever!!  

I see who I want, when I want.
Don't have to give 40% of my money away
No calls to tell me I have 15 minutes before my appointment is over (sad but true!)
My photos are REAL!
No calls in the middle of the night

 
I could go on and on....but I think you get the idea!!

This was my limited experience, I am sure other agencies are better at business than the one I worked for.

I'm an independent!!! But.........  

One of my ATFs wanted to bring in a girl & have me watch (just watch) one night after a night of bar hopping & partying, we came back to my place & he requested we get someone over, so I agreed but stated I would not be involved just watch-agreed..... Since it was sooo late in the wee hours, we decided on an agency, the sent over a girl, she was new & after they did her deed, we asked her to stay & party w/us.... Sh related to me the situation: when arriving at appt she has to call & when she leaves same thing & she had to give half of that session fee to the agency..."  She called them on my porch to have the effect she was leaving then my ATF paid her more to hang out....    

All in all, I think agencies are like pimps, I would never want to give half of my earnings to someone-I work way too hard for it!!!  

 

-- Modified on 3/27/2014 8:15:20 PM

I have worked with a few, when I was a bit younger (long before I ever knew of the internet part of this hobby-world.)

Although I was never ill-treated, they do take too much of a "cut." (As far as what comes out of Mr. Client's wallet.)
The tips I had to demand...  and I always felt a sense of guilt telling him he had to "pay more" because I hadn't gotten a dime yet! (Made me feel like I was up-selling to get any pay, sad.)
And if the "house" was taking more than me, I felt screwed. After all, who was doing most of the work here?  

Side note:
I once worked for a local guy. I didn't know he had a problem.
I did an outcall 45 minutes away, and when I called to check-out of the appointment, he asked where I was......???.... I told him. He said he was 3 miles down the road to collect the outcall agency fee AND he then said, "I need to borrow some of your money as well."

Um, NO. Not just no, hell no. This is MY MONEY.

That was my last call for him/them.  

IMO- Agencies can suck my left nut

I have no problem with the setup - the split was either 50/50 or 60/40 depending on the agency. Some think that's exploitation. But photos were taken, ads were paid for, and they had a pre-existing clientele, so I was basically guaranteed work...in some cases, a location was also provided.  

In sum: You do all 1-hours, with the odd 2-hour. Volume is high. You get sore by the end of the day and after two days, you need time off to recover. You have no idea who's going to walk in the door or what they're going to say/ask, and often, they are quite rude. (Think: guys who cannot get in the door with any independent) They were actually more demanding, and more physically challenging to deal with, than most of the clients I see as an independent. I'd never go back. Unless I had 10 starving kids, or something. Things would have to be dire.  

I didn't like the clientele much. There were some REALLY nice guys, sure...but SO many assholes that the mean guys unfortunately define my agency experience more. Men go to agencies because it's quick and convenient...and, in a lot of cases, cheaper than seeing an independent. They viewed and treated me kind of like the horse outside Kmart, where you put the quarter in and ride for a few min. And say a guy misbehaved with one girl...even if she did let the agency know, they might just keep taking his money and book him with other girls. I saw some of the most reprehensible men, some of the most notorious and most oft-blacklisted names in my area. And I complained about them...can't imagine that nobody else did before or after me.

In most cases, the agency owner just left the girls to do what they wanted in session, as per their discretion...no pressure to do anal, or whatever, but if you didn't make $$, or a client complained that you weren't GFE - you were OUT! I can think of only ONE exception to that, and I'd call that exploitation, but I won't go into it here...it didn't affect me personally, thank goodness.  

I worked for a few...in the space of 1 year when I first started working. All types - party agencies (late-nite operations), super-upscale/exclusive agencies, private UTR agencies, mid-range TER agencies. I only had a good experience with ONE. This place's rates were significantly higher than average, and they were genuinely selective as to both girls and clientele. But it was Spring 2008, so their market was dead. I only made good, steady money when I dropped rates and worked for those high-volume operations people have described as puppy mills. Some would consider those 'puppy mills' agencies 'upscale' - $3-5, generally...but there was nothing upscale about being booked back-to-back and doing 8 1-hour appt's per day, sorry.

Being independent is definitely the way to go, for a girl who can handle the legwork. But I met some agency girls who genuinely would never be able to do it, simple as it is.

It's only indicative of a low to mid range at best, but it was pretty degrading psychologically.

and while my sample size is a bit larger than yours, I can't claim to have any special insight on the subject, your personal experience/s is every bit as valid as mine.

It does suck when an agency acts "pimp like" one of the things I love about most Latin American countries where prostitution is legal is the fact that without exception that I know of at least, pimping is highly illegal and a very rare occurance

I only worked with three men, and a lot of women, so maybe my sample size is skewed...

The male owners I met were careful, to a fault, to make sure the girls were treated well. Never asked me for any favors, etc. Never heard anything negative from any of the other girls.  

All the rest were run by women...mostly, these women were very nice, and fair, and we were treated well. I'd even say that about the puppy mill agency, which was run by a woman (she was just trying to make us, and herself, the most money possible). But the absolute WORST experience I had (the one I didn't go into in my post, the outfit that bordered on exploitation/pimping...I was not directly affected) was a place run by two women, both of whom had been escorts themselves. Women can be just as greedy and unsavory as men....if not worse.

-- Modified on 3/27/2014 7:17:09 PM

Responsible party for my safety. We can talk about agencies all day, pros and cons but obviously the main reason while being an independent makes the most sense, is because you know exactly who you are meeting, which never happened with the agency. Because I had no idea of how things worked at the beginning, it was necessary for me to start somewhere so I could gradually develop the skills to become independent however, some ladies can't handle all the power and responsibility that comes without the agency reason why, it makes sense for them to stay in that type of scenario.

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....kinda like of ole 2Not, huh...eewwwww

But thank gawd this shoot-from-the-hip, take no prisoners, balls-to-the-wall Yankee lady named Ciara showed me how to screen and develop my inner-Biatch or idda sure been 6 feet under long ago. And she did it all for free...she wanted nothing but for others to be safe and to know how to do it. She's a legend and many girls are safe and well cuz of her. God love her.!  
Anyhoo...I don't much figure I'd be a good fuck at 40% less my rate in addition to hotel n travel expenses/flights/taxis/gas/food....naw my reviews would totally suck.  
Then theres the part where I have no say in who I gotta make mice with..naw, Imma pass on that

For your candid observations and experiences.  I don't want to put myself in the moral position of encouraging exploitation and although I have used agencies in the past, from what I hear, I won't be using them anymore.
It sounds pretty awful, frankly - one small step up from being pimped.  Indie work is rough enough psychologically (you ladies earn your money keeping your self-images intact), agency work sounds pretty degrading.  Not my cup of tea.

I too started as agency.  Not a great experience. Too high volume with no control over amount or if they were even screened. I would not repeat. Upside of agency is you work your day, turn off the burn phone and go home.  Indy I love but it is a 24/7 commitment with emails etc. I still prefer indy over agency but it may just be the agency I worked for or possibly the area.  They all push for volume because they are paid a percentage of every hour.

Secondly what makes you think this is too sensitive a question, or oversteps? It is actually a good question for this board and you got some good replies from the ladies and gents.
Now I see you already replied yourself and made your decision. Feel free to decide what makes you comfortable but don't kid yourself. You'd be surprised at how many "independent" ladies are actually pimped. Even some very "high end" ones, and how many agency girls are almost independent, just relying on the agency to take care of the logistics.

Many agencies are definitely just glorified pimps, and some ladies are coerced and trafficked etc. However there are many agencies that treat the ladies very well, and some who even support and help a provider who eventually leaves and goes independent.

I personally spend a lot of OTC time with a certain agency girl. Do you think that would even be possible with a pimp type agency? The agency does her advertising, screening, and booking, and of course she pays them a percentage, but she tells them when she will be available or not available. She decides when she wants to travel and where. Does this sound like she is a slave to the agency?

On the other hand I knew a certain independent provider who did her own advertising, screening, and booking, but had to pay her roommate (who was also a provider) 30% of each date!

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The good ones are a decent option for girls who are starting out and don't know how to screen. The smart ones figure it out (along with getting their own web site, etc.) and move on.  But as ps pointed out, a good agency does perform a real service for which it should be compensated.

I hesitated to post the question because it may touch on some painful experiences for some of the ladies.  Based on the posts, we've got a bunch of resilient and strong women here.

Also found the comment from ps interesting that some higher end indy ladies are pimped, but I guess the line can get pretty gray between an provider's employee that helps with the business end and a pimp.

Like lumpiing all us guys into one barrel.  In my case I have screened for a prominent provider and also formed relationships with several women who'd worked for agencies before striking out on their own.  Everything was discussed relating to the good, the bad and the ugly of working for an agency.  So I'm not simply talking out of my ass, so to speak.
And I know at least one prominent male poster here who also has a great deal of experience dealing with agency owners and girls.  There are probably more.
So, yes, a few of us do have some idea of "what goes on here."
With this exception, I agree with most of what you wrote about agencies.

I have a current FWB who I have 7 years worth of history with who worked for several agencies. I have another friend who both worked for and owned an agency, not to mention I have many agency owners as friends, and I have known dozens of women who have started with agencies and moved on to being independents.

I would say I would put my knowledge about how agencies work up against any woman, including you. You have your perspective, I have mine. To say mine is invalid is bullshit, I have a very good idea what goes on, most likely even better than you, as my perspective is a much broader one.

You saying that only a woman who has worked at an agency knows how they work is like a mechanic claiming that only he knows how the car business works.

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