I dont think it will change the hobby at all, Men with power will keep on doing it. I as a client will keep on doing it. I dont think it will drive more men into the hobby

This will have Zero effect on the hobby and Zero effect on guys' hitting on chicks in the work place.  Only will be an issue when an opportunity for serious money becomes involved.

I started in sales became an executive in a service industry and saw sexual contact / harassment at every level of employment from the guy in the truck to the executive suite and a lot of gal's used their pussy to move up and or marry up !

  Guy's just need to learn how to read the "Signs" and move away when it looks like a potential problem.

But....the net effect is none !

Women are coy. Therefore women use signals. Men, expected to initiate, read the signals. These celebs get hit on all the time. Signals flying everywhere. Sometimes the lady isn't signaling. Oops. Or sometimes there is regret. Men pay for female regret. It's a minefield out there. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you die.

that I have been more conscious of things I say lately in the workplace.  I have never had any interest in dating or having sex with an employee of mine, but I am usually free about sharing sexually explicit jokes with co-workers in my office and them with me. You just have to use good judgment and know your people so you know where to draw the line with each individual.  Someone that has been hearing my jokes for 20 years is not likely to get offended because they know I'm not telling it in a harassing or suggestive way towards them.  I won't tell the same jokes to someone who has been in my office only a few months because they don't know me well enough to know how to take it.  I think a lot of harassment claims are borne out of misunderstanding, so its up to management to keep things clear for the troops.  

 
I do see myself doubling down on my hobby time so I will be less interested in sex with civvie girls who may misinterpret my attentions as some form of harassment.  Its hard to come back from allegations like that and maintain order and respect in your company.  If you're a hired gun, you can just take early retirement, but when you own the company, its not so easy to exit on short notice, so you just have to be aware of what's going on and dial it back a little.  

And I am appropriate in the appropriate places.  In social situations that friends hug, I ask permission before assuming permission from a woman.  

I live under the motto of "Don't shit where you eat!" , so the likelihood of me doing something inappropriate is small. I have also been known to call out misogynist dickheads as they are being dickheads. I don't have fear of doing that.

As to the rest of the arseholes. Some will slide, some will stop, some will stay on their bullshit moral crusades and some will try to stop them.

Unfortunately for sex workers, the idealogues who promote abstinence, will be louder.
 Though I do appreciate their one principal of personal responsibility. Then again,  I don't see that having sex with a gorgeous p4p woman is a solution for bad behavior. It is an acceptance and an action in response to a desire.  

Damn Lexi, you get me so freaking horny!!!!!      Hahahaha, it's appropriate here!!!!!!!

I get horny seeing your photos on the photo board.

seem to be digging back into their diaries to find "harassment" from 10 or even 20 or more years ago. If the conduct of the guy was so bad, why did it take all this time to "come forward"?  

Edited for spelling error.

-- Modified on 11/29/2017 5:31:16 PM

Not sure about its effect on hobbying since it seems that most of the harassment came from people who were high on power and wanted something for which the price came in different manner than an envelope. hobbyists live and die by envelopes, other than the ones that hate envelopes,,, but you get my gist.

Agreeing to compensate an amenable party for pleasure is nothing like making sexual come-ons to someone who doesn't want it.  The two things happen completely independently of each other and with different motivations.

What would be your point in doing this?   I imagine it is ok if you are in the Porn industry, but if not, don't you think this would someday come and bite you in the ass?  

These accused man children are deranged. Why would anyone someone call a coworker into your office and show her your dick?  

They have too much ego, infallibility and completely deranged.  

I stick to the old principle, I don't fuck with anyone I work with, never have and never will.  

There is saying, but it escapes me.

How many people are really surprised with men in either Government or Hollywood?  That's always been there.  And, to some extent, always will.  I'm sure you've seen your share in both worlds.

I have had several corporate jobs, and fucked around plenty in these positions. I spent part of my day sending very explicit emails and naughty pictures to my lovers (and potential lovers). I have had pretty hot make out sessions in my offices and yes, I have done the deed in the company parking lot.  I never worried about being "outed" for sexual harassment. Maybe I went to far at times? Possible. If I was a guy doing this shit right now I would have been given a pink slip.  

The mistake these guys made? Pay to plays boys. We don't kiss and tell.  

It's a lot of power tripping. CK Lewis, Weinstein, Franken, Spacey, whoever, it's a bunch of men (and women do this too, like, all those female teachers going after underaged boys) who think they can get away with it because they have a modicum of power that they can use over someone else.  

 
I go by a simple philosophy: just treat everyone with decency and respect. I don't want to hurt anyone, so I don't, or at the least I try not too. But it's obvious when you're intentionally causing pain, and forcing women to do things they don't want to do is obviously wrong. Don't grope a woman, don't demand things from a woman just because you're a guy, and certainly don't rape them. There's a difference between going after a potential love interest and being a creepy stalker. If a girl isn't interested I back off, it's that simple. But these guys that are high on power don't want to hear no, so they act like complete creeps.

 
As for the hobby, it won't, but it should. For some reason these rich guys don't get hookers to fulfill their sexual needs. Maybe they think it's wrong (but raping women is ok for them), or maybe they're afraid of getting caught (but not afraid of getting arrested for raping a woman), I dunno. Just get a hooker who's into being dominated, then these rapists can indulge in their domination fantasies, but no, they'd rather to horrible things to unwilling people instead.  

To become more private and discreet And Enjoy themselves and SeX more with   No Worries  😁       Be Happy..

I don't think it will change because pay-for-play has a stigma. To the point, potential customers look at high profile cases. Former Mayor Spitzer was dragged through the media, embarassed, and lost his prominent position and job for using hookers, albeit high end hookers, but it didn't matter. Then you see it in the press. X number of guys arrested in a sting. Sexual harassment in the pas was swept under the rug, or at best you received a discreet settlement.

So, logically, pay-for-play isn't a better option, because you face the same risk of being outed. There are different types of sexual harassment. There is the I want to fuck you because I'm horny harassment. The bigger problem is the power play. I'm your boss, you need the paycheck, I "compel" you to sleep with me.

Why now? I don't know, been trying to figure that out myself. Why not before? That's easier.

Bill Clinton = Paula Jones
Bill Cosby - Over 30 accusers and growing
Hollywood in general and the 'casting couch'.

Because when women came forward before, they were already punished for making it public - public humiliation. Add on that nothing happens at the end of the day, why would a woman come forward? It's a he said she said. Even in this thread you have the comment that women use pussy to get ahead. That can be taken various ways. Yes, women have used their bodies to get ahead, but that was their choice.  

Now we are learning hush money was paid in a lot of these cases. So, there may have been a case, but then it quietly went away. If you're a woman, and you knew somebody filed a complaint. All you knew was that it just went radio silence, you didn't know why. So a reasonable person would believe that nothing came of it, so complaining was useless at best.

Instead of expecting men to interpret body language, which is honestly hard to figure out often times, and just know what to do; I think we should start expecting girls to become the initiators instead. The whole problem with all this is that girls expect all guys to play a game that a lot of guys don't know how to play. The male brain is not nearly as well equipped at picking up on body language or social cues as the female brain is, but girls don't understand that, so they essentially expect guys to do something that their brains aren't really designed for. I know you may say "well humans have reproduced for tens of thousands of years with no problem." Well, in pre-historic times, there probably wasn't any beating around the bush when it came to sex. I highly doubt that men at the time would've worried about whether straight up asking a woman for sex offended her or not since we didn't really have sexual mores back then. After pre-historic times, sexuality became much more repressed, so men couldn't just walk up to random women and ask to fuck. Men were allowed to court women in a very formal way though where everything a man did leading up to sex had already been pre-decided by society, to the point where you might not even have a choice in who you have sex with because your marriage was arranged for you.

Through a lot of civilized history, casual sex with girls who weren't prostitutes wouldn't have even been a possibility for most men. Almost all sex had to be in the form of some legal arrangement. For most people, that was marriage; for rich men, this would likely mean multiple marriages and multiple concubines. Basically, through most of history, sex has either been 100% you can't have it right now, or 100% okay its fine for you to do it. Stepping outside of these boundaries had extremely harsh punishments, like being stoned to death. Nowadays, we like to think we've essentially become a civilized version of the sexual liberation that pre-historic humans experienced. We've chucked the formalities of the past out the window in favor of a more casual sexual environment. The problem is, we're not as liberated as pre-historic humans were and there's still a lot of rules surrounding how a man is supposed to go about getting sex. Unlike in the more recent past though, those rules are not written out for men anymore and they don't have a clear idea on how they're supposed to get sex.

Now I'm not claiming things changed overnight, we've actually been very very slowly getting less formal about sex since Medieval Times. However, this erosion of formality regarding sex has been progressing much more rapidly in recent decades. I'm not trying to glorify the ancient conduct regarding sex as they had many many problems regarding the way they handled sex. Society has changed in many ways for a reason, and for the most part, these changes have been positive, resulting in a much more peaceful society than in ancient times. However, I do think that our current ignorance or denial of the differences between the way that males and females approach sex is a form of progressivism that is having negative results. While males have a fuck ton of unwritten rules over how they're supposed to get sex, for females, they actually do pretty much have the freedom that pre-historic humans had. The vast majority of guys would accept if an attractive girl walked up to them and asked if they wanted to have sex. Even if a girl was more physically blunt rather than verbally, like feeling a guy up, most guys would accept if the girl was attractive, and even if she wasn't are very unlikely to call the police or become afraid. Therefore, the fact that girls don't have to worry about men's reactions to their sexual advances gives them a lot of freedom that men don't have.

Therefore we don't necessarily have to go back to an age of formal courtship, but if we are to live like we do now, girls are going to have to take on the leadership role in pursuing sex. Men being expected to take on the leadership role is resulting in stuff like sexual harassment and unsolicited dick pics because a lot of clueless men are being forced to either be celibate or take on that role of initiating sex. The way they're initiating sex is pissing a lot of women off though, so they end up with forced celibacy anyway.

Sorry this ended up being a lot longer than I expected when I started writing the post.

Its not necessarily just the kiss and tell part that I find comforting about hobbying, its the directness and lack of ambiguity. You can do this, this, or this, you can't do that. Everything is agreed upon beforehand, and there's no figuring it out as you go. I don't know, some people probably like the excitement of the "figure it out as you go," behavior, but for me, it worries me way too much to think of it as exciting. At the risk of sounding silly, my mother was very diligent about teaching me to be careful of women's boundaries, and that has stuck with me ever since. So I never push them. Every tiny step that most people don't think about, I really worry about. The thing is, I think civvie girls really enjoy the excitement because they don't have to worry about whether they're crossing lines or not so they don't understand why I'm so worried about this and can't get excited about it, so they get turned off by my inability to feel the same way as they do about hooking up. I think a lot of guys are similar which is why gay men prefer to hookup with each other very bluntly, like meeting in a mall and tapping their shoe at someone. Girls, on the other hand, prefer to go to a nightclub where they start spontaneously dancing and making out with someone, and then go home with them.

These type of men are deranged. They are not doing this for sex, if they were, they would have entered the hobby a long time ago.  

It may be the same thing, the Dip Shit in the WH believes, "when you are famous, you can grab them by the pussy". The derangement may be, I have power so I can and will do whatever I want syndrome.

How did the assassination of an Archduke in Serbia plunge the world into war ........ because it released pressures that had been building for decades .  Same thing here.  In my youth women in ads were pictured in pinafores (look it up) serving coffee to men sitting in easy chairs smoking a pipe.  Teaching, nursing and office work were the only real large-scale career paths open to women.  I think it's wonderful that we have migrated from that narrow, restrictive enclosure to the expanded, but not completely, one that we have today.  However, a lot of the old men on top are of my generation and brought that Mad Man mentality forward with them, so they looked the other way, while the increasing accomplishment of women made the resentment by them of their treatment grow.  More were willing to come forward and, with social media, more were aware of that.  The pressure built and the scale tipped.  There had to be a "now", the only question was when.

Men hire sex workers and men have egos that need to go on power trips. They are not mutually exclusive (and of course, not about just one gender but that is a whole other conversation).  

All of the allegations are explicitly about times when men crossed a boundary far beyond necessary. These allegations are not about innocent jokes. So, this is not about being horny or needing sex.  

On the flip side, this is also why providers screen. Being professionals, we know how to better enforce boundaries but at the same time, nobody wants a boundary pusher to walk in through the door.  

More men will not suddenly become hobbyists and I wish they'd stop telling men who harass/stalk/assault to "just go see a sex worker".  That's fucked up. I'm not a dumpster. Sex workers want to see  gentlemen as much as the next civvie girl.

Pun is good stuff. That's quite astute. Agreed. But why such a fine 'tipped' tipping point. Why with really just one person, Weinstein, did the waterfall occur.  That much pressure and that fine a point?

Its just weird, and I have to say not disappointed in some of the casualties. Just surprised Woody Allen hasn't been caught up in this, yet. He is number 2 on my list after Matt Lauer.

We all know many of the men that hobby are general pathetic losers looking for "love" and "affection"   and this is a where women get to abuse their power.  This is where the worst case reverse scenarios look like, where men are the victims of these scheming ladies.

In real life men with actual power and status aren't looking for "love" or "affection" like the loser hobbyist they are looking for lust and sex

And people with power and status won't be booking hookers cause they are looking for that "affection" material cause they don't need it unlike the saps and carpet men here

For women:  "You've got to give head to get ahead."
This worked really well in the 20th century.

If Brad Pitt says "you look hot today" is anyone going to file sexual harassment charges against him? OTOH, if someone like MidAgedCEO where to simply ask you about the weather who could blame you for filing a lawsuit? lol

 
The hotter the guy/girl the more they can get away with in this regard. It's not fair, but it's inarguably true.

...I believe it's impossible to make a blanket statement on this subject, we are all individuals & our experiences certainly will differ. Those of us that have never felt the negative effects from their behavior will probably change very little unless they can see a corollary example of how behavior similar to theirs has effected others, perhaps all these celebrity abuse cases will create the atmosphere for change however I still believe what ever the social effect it will be the sum total of the changes made by individuals.

Of course nobody wants to see rapists referred to the industry. But some of this is about unlearning bad behaviors.  So if the restaurant manager who is attracted to beautiful young women now realizes it’s not OK to pursue his college aged hostesses and waitresses, maybe now he’ll consider going to an escort who provides enticing role play scenarios.

Don’t forget this wave of harassment isn’t just going to effect the behavior of the harassers and rapists.  It’s going to deter people from getting into work-related consensual relationships as well. Too risky now. Personal example: I was involved with an employee who initiated an affair pretty directly, “I’ve always fantasized about fucking my boss, and I think your hot.”  Led to an intense one year relationship where I took a break from hobbying.  If that same scenario happened today, I would pass on it.  Too risky.  That’s why I️ think we’ll see an increase in men seeking out escorts. It won’t happen overnight, but I think we’ll see it gradually.

Disagree.  Many of these come-ons (I’m not talking about locking your office door and dropping trousers) are just come-ons in the guy’s eyes.  Girl agrees, he thinks it’s all good.  What he doesn’t no is the girl is agreeing because she’s worried about negative results if she says no.  Guys are going to pull back on inter-office romances because of this. Seeking out a provider is a safer option.

... but you do need to be more succinct.

 
Also, please put TWO 'RETURN' CHARACTERS between your paragraphs. Everybody should. It keeps paragraphs from melding into one huge block.

 
And remember: the subordinate conjunction is 'as', not 'like'.

 
Carry on.

I am not known for being succinct, but I use  
(carriage return) (line feed) [= Enter key]  
(character) (carriage return) (line feed) [= Enter key]  
to establish an almost blank line between paragraphs.  I usually use a period . or a hyphen - .  
.
See? New paragraph here.

It may take THREE of those carriage returns to get paragraphs distinct on the new TER.

 
Also, DC said: "...if we are to live like we do now..." That should have been "...as we do now..."

 
In your own example, it should be: "Nancy speaks as a native speaker [does]." The clause is verbal, so that requires "as" – not "like".

 
"Like" is a preposition. For example, "She is much like her mother."  It follows a form of the verb "to be" and kicks off the prepositional phrase "like her mother".

 
Okay, enough of this grammar police stuff. Now  back to sex ...

Not the hobby. The hobby is essentially anti-sexual harassment. A woman is being paid for certain things, if she does not want to go through with the date, she just leaves. It might hurt women in the long run. Accusations are just that, accusations, yet we have not given any benefit of the doubt to the accused, and many are being tried without a jury. Many of the women are suspect to begin with. There might be plenty of women lying to just jump aboard the gravy train. That causes problems for the real cases. How many employers are now going to shift certain hiring policies based on sexual harassment? Why hire a woman when you know a man will not accuse of harassment? Right now if I owned a business, I would be very leery of hiring women in certain positions, if at all.

Nobody really gives a fuck about proper English written language on the board.

His idea could have been stated in one or to sentences with no carriage return.  

I agree that there has been a pussyfication of men. Gone are the good old days when a club to her head sufficed and she liked it when she woke.

"caveman would quietly sit in the corner and watch another caveman have sex with a woman, patiently waiting his turn." (For free).

I think the hobby is going to boom because men are expected to intitated everything. and with men getting in trouble, they are going to turn to something with less consquenses.