Do any of you guys feel a twinge jealousy when you read a review of one of your favorite long time providers, and see that she performed to the max and really rang the bell of the guy that is writing the review? Or, am I just being a silly old fool ??

Hi Chuey,

Being an 'old sofy or silly old fool' as you put it, is not a bad thing..sounds rather endearing to me.  Your feelings sound normal for someone who has a long time favorite.

Also as there has been so much talk about reviews lately, I would take what is said with a grain of salt  not pointing any fingers..and certainly do not want to get the atomic bomb flame war going again.

 But look at some of the reviews sort of like young men like to brag to one another..talk about who is longest, etc. and who gets the most pleasure from and encounter, or who has the most encounters.. of course they are praising their partner for all the rung bells..but for it to be a great deal of fun for the client, usually he will be also pleasing the lady just as much to make it mutually exciting and bring out the absolute best in her, which in turn rings all of his bells and makes him look quite good as well.

I love to fly fish, and among fisherpeople(lol dont know how to be politically correct with this one, even after 45 years of it) the more they speak of the great catch and the great fight the fish gave, the greater both become.  I have never heard one say 'I just caught this 5lb Golden and it was an easy catch, practically jumped into my net, while I was taking a nap in the boat' They love to say all the work it took to even get it to strike, and how they had to reel it ever so carefully and could not 'horse' it in'... it is a way of saying the fish was a great adversary and that they were a better one for having caught it.

After reading this, it may only make sense to people who fish.. I know what I am trying to say, maybe its just too late at night for me to be very articulate.. so you all, can try an figure out my point..

Sweet Dreams,  Susie

First of all, to chuey, my philosophy is that those "other" guys are really only dreaming and making up stories, whilst mine is the "real thing" .  

To Susie, though we haven't met, I am a very avid fisherperson as well, and I completely understand what you are saying.  Along the same lines I recently saw a T-shirt which said "The older I get, the better I was".  I like it .  By the way, my last big trip was 11 days on the Royal Polaris, the fish really ARE that big .

eom

Boy this struck a chord with me! I just had one of these experiences after reading a recent review of my favorite Asian provider. She always makes me feel like I'm the only one, but the cold reality is that I'm sure every guy she sees feels the same. But it's not really a bad thing. I think from now on, once I've seen a provider I will stop reading her reviews.

I wonder about the ladies? If they read about someone they wish had come back, or had reviewed someone else, if they feel a little twinge? "I remember that guy, great kisser"

              CD

I've felt twinges reading reviews of other escorts written by a few of the guys I've seen, and some of my clients have confided to me that they don't read reviews of me because they feel twinges of jealosy, even though they say they know they shouldn't.  A lot of people say we're not supposed to feel any emotional involvement, but I guess not all of us can pull that off, and I don't think I want to anyway.

I really don't enjoy myself unless there is some emotional involvement, and yes, I have 2 favorites and I do feel that jealousy twinge when I read the reviews, but I think that I have come to accept that as the nature of the business.  Nikki and Celeste, you are the BEST.....

No you are not being a silly old fool that, or I am a silly old fool (yes there are many who will argue that in fact I am silly and a fool and a few even that I am old but aside from that! )and since I would not like to consider myself as such...

It seems that you have made a connection to your favorite provider that is more than "thank you and there is a card on the table"  So as a result all kinds of "human and personal" things come in play.  And to me the same connection that leads to that "twinge" is the same thing that makes it all with while.  I am the type that seeks a connection with the lady I see.  It is my nature I guess.

Btw, I get that very same twinge you mention and that sometimes it goes to a cramp and even sometimes to a down right hurt.

--JP


-- Modified on 6/11/2001 11:29:32 AM

I definitely agree with you. In fact I think that this `connection' designates the two different categories (as much as people can accurately be categorized) of hobbyists and providers: those who find that a mutual `connection’ plays a good part in making the experience truly fulfilling and worthwhile; and those who seek to appreciate solely the physical, in a more objective sense.  Neither type is better than nor superior to the other--but I am definitely more able to commiserate with the sentiments that can sometimes effect a `type one.’

Chuey,

Your not being a silly old fool.  You are being a human being.  The downside of this hobby is that we do become emotionaly envolved with our partners, if we didn't, we wouldn't become regulars, or in the case of the lady, look forward to seeing that regular.  It cuts both ways.

Just remember Chuey that YOU bring something to the table of your favorite that nobody else does.  That each of us offers something that is unique and special, that the provider appreciates. I would like to add, if you can display this much honesty, you are bringing a great deal to the table.

Personaly I'm not the jealous type, but I have to admit to having that, nervous feeling in my stomach when I do read a review.  Maybe I should follow the advise, not to read my favorite's reviews.  "Ignorance is Bliss"

Thanks for bringing such a personal question forward, this is what this site's about.

Regards,

G.

Ps

Chuey, if I catch you seeing my favorite, I'll break your legs. Just joking. LOL

-- Modified on 6/11/2001 1:37:27 PM

Knowing your favorite #1 GFE is spending quality time with
other gentlemen, is a lot different than obsessing over it.
After all, if she does not see enough clients to support herself
she will either quit or move on to greener pastures.
Then of course you could become her Sugar Daddy.
Ya that's the ticket!

LM

my 2 cents

I am sure every provider is someone's favorite.  Imagine if we don't see another hobbist's favorite just so we don't step on someone else's toe.  We will probably have no providers to see and this whole hobby thing might as well fold.  Feeling a tinsy bit of jealousy is healthy I am sure.   (shrug)

Chuey (and others) - I share your sentiments.  Pit in the stomach reading a review of someone you care about?  How about "excruciating" at times.  Chuey I hate the term, but boy do I feel your pain.  I've agonized over a couple of reviews lately.

Gandalf - your comments did made me feel better.  Most of us can spot the things that we realize set us apart from others with respect to a particular relationship with a lady (I avoid hobbyist/provider here because we really are talkig about something different if not "more").  But you call attention to it in an intelligent way.

Perspicacity - nice have ya' back (-:

Lustman - as we so well know, some of the ladies truly adore one of their regulars but they so value their "independence" (and in many ways that is part of why we respect and sometimes love them), they have difficulty we confronted with becoming dependent on one guy (even in a committed relationship).  In those situations, it's almost never about sex and it's mostly always about just not being dependent.

Can't talk about long time favs because although I am an old softie, I am a relative newbie to this hobby. However, if you didn't feel those twangs, that person wouldn't be one of your favs. She's your fav because you feel something special between you and nobody likes to think that someone else might have that same relationship. You've just got to remember that most all ladies are much more perceptive about the subtleties in a relationship than we men and that if you feel that way, I'm sure that it's mutual. JMHO
pt

She said first, don't read the reviews.  She felt that most of them exaggerated on the details, or she put on a good act that day.

Secondly, she said that this was a business to her and if I didn't like it I could leave my spouse and move in with and support her.  She didn't do this as an ultimatum.  She just sort of left me with the option.

This left me with a dilemna.  I decided to stay with the wife and ultimately stopped seeing this provider.  I justified this in my mind by convincing myself that she didn't really care that much about me anyway.  If she did, she could have stopped work as an escort and see how things developed.  I had much more to lose so the risk to her was less.  In the end, I realized that this was more business than anything else.

I couldn't deal with continuing to see her as a client, so we are now friends.

To all of you ladies and gentlemen who replied to my question I offer a heartfelt THANKS! I know that I have been in some prior threads that were pretty controversial and harsh, but I didn't mean to be hurtful, just my thoughtlessness and rushing in and being impulvisive  . So, I am really gratified by everyones response here, especially some of the "old timers" lol......

--

-- Modified on 6/11/2001 3:49:15 PM

Back in the Day-  when I was a party to much more civilian sex than now(way more partners), we had a concept called a "sperm bro"

It was like a blood brother-  only instead of mixing your blood together after cutting your palm in the Amerind/norse tradition, one had pooled ones jism in a common member of the opposite sex.

The ladies weren't common- it was only that what one had in common with the other guy was having has sex with the same woman.Not at the same time either- {I probably will never share with a guy in the room(will a lady-with a lady)} but if you happened to use the same berth at the same port within a four year span(we WERE in college) As long as there weren't emotional ties too, it was a good thing.

Perhaps that concept will work here.  I know I use it mentally all the time.

While we don't have to speek Greek to each other (the real thing- I am NOT an "In Through the Out Door" kind of guy-but I do like Led Zeppelin)- I try to think of the other guys on this board like an extended fratiernity.   I look out for their interests, both philosophically and carnally, and they look out for me.

This way one can feel good about helping a buddy get the same awesome bbbj that you enjoyed- he's your bro!

BTW-  I don't think all the ladies liked the fact that we were so positive about this practice- they would have liked more angst.

Well, all I can say is that anyone who doesn't get their feelings stirred just a bit when engaging in "the hobby" needs to have a blood pressure check.  All of us, client as well as provider, have unique and distinctive personalities.  Sometimes they will mesh well with one another and sometimes it will be a disastrous encounter.  Speaking for myself and from within the framework of this sexually inhibited country in which we live, I give great thanks to the "hobby" for allowing me to organize my sexual feelings and work with them.  Jealousy is a normal human feeling. It springs forth from our fears of being disliked as well as our lack of self-esteem.  That's why our stupid LE friends don't get the picture when it comes to the arrangement of meetings from the Internet.  It's not just the sex, dodos, it's the idea of companionship (whether there is sex or not). This companionship manifests itself out in the real world. I have had the good fortune of having been with enough beautiful women from the Internet so that meeting women generally either at parties, bars, museums, or whatever doesn't intimidate me like it used to.  I owe this to the great women I have met from this site. As for the accuracy of the reviews, let's just say that I have never been disappointed either with the sex or, especially, the company.  Every picture tells a story and I've been fortunate enough to leave every encounter I have had with a warm and fuzzy feeling.  May you all enjoy similar good vibes!! Regards, levendi

I think when I began in the hobby "way-back-when" in '76 that I was not doing so to find any emotional connection.  I was only
in it for the Big-0 Experience.  I found a good many of those along the way, and what kept me coming back was the euphoric recall of all the great sessions overriding those that were less than successfull or less than 100% enjoyable.
Somewhere along the line I connected with a lady here and there.
Those I sought out more often than those with whom I had no connection. (for sure much of the time it was the better BBBJ but not all of the time! hehe)
Now why shouldnt I limit my experience to only the lady(ladies) with whom I have that little something extra?  Thank God I am in a situation where I meet providers "off the clock" from time to time and get to know them as fellow human beings a bit prior to engaging in any hobby activity.
This is quite different from my college years where we didn't date any women we hadn't already had sex with.  That was the 70's and I am talking full-contact sex! (BBFS--remember THAT sully?)  Today we talk about meeting escorts socially prior to having any business dealings with them.  Now haven't we come full circle? Or is that only a paradigm shift?

I vote for the warmest fuzziest feeling every time!

LM

No! F*ck You!
... in keeping with the friendly banter treaty this is, of course, only a joke between Sully and myself.... I have to thank Liz for pointing it out, I missed it buried in the other thread!

LM

-- Modified on 6/11/2001 7:23:40 PM

We are raised in a culture where we are taught to value monogamy.  Perhaps it even runs deeper than that and there is a genetic component.

I think that to completely avoid the pain one either has to be monogamous or one has to learn to disconnect one's sexuality from one's emotions.  Some people (both clients and providers) can disconnect.  Many of us cannot, and furthermore don't want to do so.  (I predate the casual sex of the 70's -- missed out completely.)

So, if our emotions and sexuality are connected how do we deal with the problem.  Most of us clients (and some escorts) are married, many of us have no desire to leave our spouse, but after many years of marriage we are not happy with strict monogamy either.  A girlfriend would probably want us to leave our wife.  A relationship with an escort offers more possibility of a real but limited relationship.  We do not go into a relationship with an escort with the idea that we are going to marry her and live happily ever after.  Perhaps with escorts, more than other women, we learn that such relationships are possible.  There are other options than marriage or celibacy.

We use the word "friend" to cover a lot of different relationships.  My wife is my best friend, but she is not my whole world.  I care deeply for her, but that does not mean that I care nothing for anyone else.  We share many things but we will never merge and become one person and we do not share all our interests.  Actually, by not needing my wife to share everything that is important to me I can be happy giving her the space to be who she is.  I don't need to pressure her to be what she isn't or give what she isn't comfortable giving.

Sex is bonding for me.  I think that is true for anyone who has their sexuality and their emotions connected.  So, when a bond develops with an escort there is pain when I read a glowing review.

How do I deal with it?  First, by having enough security to realize that if she likes me for who I am, she likes me for who I am.  We sometimes have to make painful choices in life because we can't have everything we might like, but I don't believe a third person can really have much effect on the way two people feel about each other.  Having great sex with someone is not going to change her feelings toward me.  And my having great sex with someone is not going to change my feelings toward her (whether the her is this case is my wife or one of the escorts that I truly like).  I really believe this.

Second, in the absence of monogamy, I believe you have to be extra careful to let the other person know the relationship is special and important.  There are lots of ways, both verbal and nonverbal, to do this.  

However, at the same time you let the other person know that they are important to you, you have to avoid becoming dependent.  Very little drives off a woman (any woman in my experience) faster than becoming dependent and feeling that you absolutely need her to make your life complete and worthwhile.  I think relationships work best when they are between equals (in some sense) who both bring as much or more to the relationship than they take from it.

Dealing with a limited but important relationship (or relationships) is not easy.  Probably not easy for either person.  But I have no desire to live my life as a hermit, and my relationships with women are a major part of what makes life worth living. I truly value some of the escorts I have met and will long remember some of the experiences that I have had.  The gain has been well worth the pain.

Just my 2 cents.  Sorry to be so long about it.



-- Modified on 6/11/2001 7:33:52 PM

-- Modified on 6/11/2001 7:43:46 PM

-- Modified on 6/11/2001 8:01:04 PM

...because I don't always see the reviews as fact.  As I have mentioned before many sound more like bragging than a review.  The one provider I've seen more than twice was reported to have performed a service never offered to me or written about in other reviews--I asked her and she said she had never done it--ever.  The reviewer had read the other reviews and decided to male himself look special.

Also, everyone is different.  I understand that someone else will have a different experience than I will.  A provider who did the exact same thing every time would not be human--they would be a robot and not too exciting to be with.

Plato said "After sex, man is sad."  We may never know exactly what his thoughts were when he said that, but I believe it is because after sex, we realize we are once again alone- and always destined to be alone.

It is human nature to want to bond and the sex act is the primary manner in which men and women relate to each other (women relate by talking, men and women relate by having sex).  Despite what our conscious mind may tell us, when we have sex with a provider that we are physically attracted to, it is natural to feel some emotional attraction as well- it's just the way we're hard wired.  We know we shouldn't feel that way, but it's natural (maybe even a sign of emotional health) that we still do.  From a propogation of the species standpoint, we're also hardwired to not want others to also have tickets to the tunnel of love after we've paid a visit.  Anthropologists call it sperm competition, or some such thing.

So in addition to all the other good advice on this thread I would just add that we shouldn't be worried about the reaction as much as how we manage it.  We're fighting biology, which never works. I use the technique of reversing roles.  When a woman I like has multiple sex partners I just remind myself that I too, have multiple sex partners.  And my having sex with other women doesn't diminish the way I feel whn I'm with   the first woman.  So I have to believe she is capable of the same thing.  

The proof is that you or I could see providers on a regular basis and not love our wife or girlfriend any less.  This may not be what women like to hear, but we guys know it's true.  We also have to believe that women (at least many) are capable of the same type of sexual behavior (anthropologists have actually proven that women seek multiple sex partners while concurrently preserving the bond with their husband/s.o.).  They do it for the reverse reason (sperm competition) that men want only one man with "their woman."  

In any relationship, what you have between you is unique (even provider/client).  When you or she has sex with another, it in no way diminishes what you enjoy together.  Jealousy is a primal response to the aforementioned human characteristics, but it needs to be managed, because we're not competing to impregate the tribe anymore, and those primal reactions get in our way of having a pleasurable experience with the woman of our choosing.  

So in the words of Eric Cartman, if you don't like my long response "screw you guys." I'm still supposed to be off pouting anyway, so turn off the Bat Light.

BTW, JP it's either Plato or Socrates, correct me if you know.

Damn fine to hear from you again. OK, you can go back to your sulking now, but if you leave the sandbox again, please leave your toys behind this time. LOL
pt

-- Modified on 6/12/2001 8:17:40 AM

-- Modified on 11/26/2001 11:11:26 PM

...I just love the perspective you girls give to this discussion board--thanks.

I think many of us would miss your posts.  I know that I would.

Jared Diamond has an entire chapter "The Science of Adultery" in his book "The Third Chimpanzee."  He says, "Since one husband suffices to realize a woman's maximum reproductive potential, what could possibly attract a woman to EMS {extramarital sex} or PMS {premarital sex}? This question puzzles the current generation of theoretical sociobiologists with a purely intellectual interest in EMS, just as it has taxed the ingenuity of would-be male adulterers thoughout history."

This left me with the impression that the theorists don't have a clue as to why women engage in EMS as from a purely biological standpoint there doesn't seem to be any benefit for them to do so.

Some other quotes from the same chapter:

"For men, the minimum effort needed to sire an offspring is the act of copulation, a brief expenditure of time and energy. The man who sires a baby by one woman one day is biologically capable of siring another baby by another woman the next day.  For women, however, the minimum effort consists of copulation plus pregnancy plus (throughout most of human history) several years spent nursing -- a huge commiment of time and energy.  Thus a man potentially can sire far more offspring than can a woman."

"The other sexual asymmetry relevant to mating strategy involves confidence that one really is the biological parent of one's putative offspring.  A cuckolded animal, deceived into rearing offspring not its own, has thereby lost the evolutionary game while advancing the victory of another player, the real parent. Barring a switch of babies in the hospital nursery, women cannot be "cuckolded": they see their baby emerge from them. ... However, men and other male animals practicing internal fertilization -- fertilization of eggs inside the female's body -- can readily be cuckolded.  All that the putative father knows for sure is that his sperm went into the mother, and eventually an offspring came out. Only observation of the female througout her whole fertile period can absolutely exclude the possibility that some other male's sperm also entered and did the actual fertilizing."

"An extreme solution to this simple asymmetry is the one formerly adopted by southern India's Nayar society. Among the Nayar, women freely took many lovers simultaneously or in sequence, and husbands accordingly had no confidence in paternity. To make the best of a bad situation, a Nayar man did not live with his wife or care for his supposed children, but he instead lived with his sisters and cared for his sisters' children. At least, those nieces and nephews were sure to share one-quarter of his genes."

Perhaps that isn't such a bad solution when you look at the rest of the world (as shown in the final quote below).

"When adultery laws, imperial records, and coercive restraint still fail to ensure paternity, murder is available as a last resort. The role of sexual jealousy as one of the commonest causes of homicide emerges from studies in many American cities and in many countries. Usually, the murderer is a husband while the victim is his adulterous wife or her lover; or else the lover kills the husband. ... Until the formation of centralized political states provided soldiers with loftier motives, sexual jealousy also loomed large in human history as a cause of war. It was Paris's seduction (abduction, rape) of Menelaus's wife Helen that provoked the Trojan War. In the modern New Guinea highlands, only disputes over ownership of pigs rival disputes over sex at triggering war."


 

-- Modified on 6/12/2001 2:12:14 AM

-- Modified on 6/12/2001 2:13:38 AM

-- Modified on 6/12/2001 2:20:26 AM

-- Modified on 6/12/2001 6:35:38 AM

Mathesar, your insight is unbelievable. You said what I was trying to say in my above post. I hope that you're having a good week!

Dear Chuey,  NOSC, and all above, I just have been very touched, enlightened, unceasingly gratified by the humanity and love on this thread.  I joined it late and had LOTS of reading to do to catch up...I am so glad I did.

Also what can be so amazing is the synchronicity of thoughts on concurrent threads.  Hmmm. Goddess GND at work here didn't hurt either!  Makes me know that I am in the right place at the right time.  With the right folk.

Thank you all. Very heartwarmng thread.


fx2