Once I was "set up" with a lady. Before we even met, she asked for my assistance. I identified a problem with her pregnant daughter's health care, identified the correct medical specialty to assist her, and found a physician willing to treat her daughter. We finally met, after 2 months of this, with me calling in favors do do a solid. We went out, with an excellent choice of restaurant, really good conversation and an excellent time.
I drove her back to her place... was saying good night... and she actually asked me to ask her out again... a quick peck on my cheek... and we said good night.
I called within the week to set up another date and her response... are you ready... "Go out with you again, never, whatever are you thinking!" So please, tell me about civies.
My consulting fee alone for the effort on behalf of her daughter (diagnosis - - sepsis with an MDR bacterial infection - in short - life threatening) would have been sig.
Go figure.
Ladies, you dont know how GOOD you have it till you quit it.
DATING is sooo difficult, I have not cried so much in God knows how long.
I have not had sex, a hug or a kiss sine November 2005.
Civilian men just are not as gentlemanly as men who see escorts.
*sigh*
Who are you dating, my dear? These guys sound like jerks! I'm so sorry to hear this. Perhaps you need to go on a dating site or meet someone from a friend.
Hugs,
Ciara
its mostly guys from dating sites, i must say
dating sites and MYSPACE
my aunt says its because i like "boys" and not "men"
she's probably right
-- Modified on 4/4/2006 4:24:30 PM
because we all know that men are still boys (pardon me, guys). I think it's a matter of dating responsible, caring men.
Hugs,
Ciara
You are going though much what we all go thougth dating when we are singeles Maybe you do not remberem what it like
what makes it sort of twisted is that I wish I could have gotten paid for my time that I waisted on a bad date. I kick myself for even attempting to date sometimes. My clients are MUCH better that civillians.
Next time you are on a civie date, why not ask the guy for a $$$ retainer. If you enjoy yourself and are treated like a lady - the retainer will, of course, be returned. However, should you not be treated with respect, shown a good time and in general not embarassed... well - the $XXX is yours to keep....
Wonder how many civie guys would go for that! With most all of you, I would take that bet in a nanosecond!
This business is actually bad for attempting to date now (for me) in the civie world. Most of the time (and not recently) I usually end up saying, "Gees! I could have at least gotten paid for it. That was a waste of time!" Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
Every time I think I might give civvie dating just one more try, it's the same old shit, W A M!! I got a call from a guy I'd given my phone number to at a party recently, and here cums his date invitation:
“Oh, X (that's my real name) it was just so amazing and wonderful to meet you, blah, blah, blah, etc. I was just wondering if you might like to join me this evening (called the same day he want to get together!) for a cup of tea or coffee, then we could go hang out any my place and spend some time getting to know each other a lot better, and afterwards (after what??) we could even go for a walk on the beach."
See what I mean ....that'll teach me!! Back to work Suzanne, quit wasting time on this board and on potential civvie dates!
OMFG
Suzanne in San Diego
Maybe parties are the wrong avenue for finding good dates.....in a bygone era women and men used to seek each other out by going to places like shows, concerts, lectures according to personal interests hoping that perhaps by chance they'd meet someone.Granted,you won't find a date easily,but once you get one there are better chances that such a date won't ask you to bed on a first date. It all depends where you seek to find a date! Just my opinion.
I know what she means. Most of the civie men I've dated in the past 12 years have been very disappointing dates. I think not only people have changed but there is no romance. Rarely does someone bring you flowers, take you to dinner and then just kiss you at the door.
Hugs,
Ciara
Once I was "set up" with a lady. Before we even met, she asked for my assistance. I identified a problem with her pregnant daughter's health care, identified the correct medical specialty to assist her, and found a physician willing to treat her daughter. We finally met, after 2 months of this, with me calling in favors do do a solid. We went out, with an excellent choice of restaurant, really good conversation and an excellent time.
I drove her back to her place... was saying good night... and she actually asked me to ask her out again... a quick peck on my cheek... and we said good night.
I called within the week to set up another date and her response... are you ready... "Go out with you again, never, whatever are you thinking!" So please, tell me about civies.
My consulting fee alone for the effort on behalf of her daughter (diagnosis - - sepsis with an MDR bacterial infection - in short - life threatening) would have been sig.
Go figure.
"I think not only people have changed but there is no romance". Ciara, you've put your finger on the real problem! My view is that all this relates directly to economic conditions affecting the culture as a whole that lead to coarsened relations between individuals(married or not).The absence of romance can be traced to impatience and the desire for "quick results" ingrained by employer ethics that require results "by yesterday"...regretfully,our whole culture has been infected by impatience!
Hi, it is I Bizzaro! I miss your posts... and I have wanted to tell you that my opinions on New Orleans, what happened there after Katrina, were in large part, altered by the things that you wrote. It made me rethink quite a bit. Please know that you have one person who respects your opinion.
I am very sorry to hear that this is not the way you envisioned it. Hang in there, and I wish you much luck... and happiness.
Best
aww thanks darling,
see this is what i mean, that was sooo sweet, how come the everyday guys i date arent as sweet?
I haven't civie dated in many years, but I recall it as one big nightmare of mixed up, game playing and otherwise f***ed up situations.
And don't get me started on the marriage!
With goddesses (and the term fits to a T) there are no games, you know where you stand, you can be yourself and most of all (drum roll please) you are happy.
It's cuts both ways, male and female.
I can't wait to see you again Vicki.
Why do civies play games?? both the guys and the gals. As Mr. Fisher said, there is a lot that could be written on this topic, but ladies know one thing, I mean no disrespect to any of you, as I admire you for what you do, I would be proud to call any of you my friend, would get serious about many of you, but know, I would be like a dog chasing a Ferrari - - What's he gonna do with it when he catches it?
I would much rather spend my time with my kids and have brief interludes with one of you, than dozens of dates, dinners and BS that accompanies soooo many civie dates... Yea, Mr Fisher said it well....
I've gotta be one of the first to admit that my dating sucked till I discovered TER. My only piss off is I can't generally afford an overnighter...which was allways my favorite part of sex.
I'm truly orry about your troubles, Vicki, and I really hope you find better people...it can take a lot of effort, depending on many factors.
I know this wasn't the main point of your thread, Vicki, but it just is so amusing to see people bandwagon when the concept of comparing dating in the REAL world to escorting is brought up. There is NO comparison...because the two activities are almost TOTALLY unrelated.
*sigh*
its true it is ALMOST totally unrelated, but when i was a escort, i didnt actually realize how it was related
now that i am not getting laid and dont have men treating me like a queen everyday, it's just disheartening
i had more fun on my "escort" dates than i do with the guys i meet nowadays
On a civvie date I will buy you a 10-piece McNuggets and even share my honey mustard sauce with you. Isn't that romantic?
I seriously doubt that the men you have seen as clients treat their dates, girlfriends, SOs, or wives like they do you. It is easy to be on one's best behavior when it is only for a few hours at a time, and the end result is known.
Just as a lady that has reviews that say she DFKed him when he walked through the door, unzipped him and hit her knees....doubt she does that on civvie dates.
Civvie dates aren't like appointments because they aren't appointments. That is like comparing apples and orangutans.
When they are not seeing you as clients, the men are civvies, and they do the same stuff the men you are meeting now do...and for the guys that talk about civvie women, well when it's not a paid encounter the ladies here are civvies and do the same stuff other civvie women do.
When each party knows the outcome, knows why they are there, when there is no question of if there will be "x", when there is no concern of a relationship, or possible future together, things are different. It's easier, and less stressful to be charming and kind and sexual when you already have the pressure of the why resolved, when you both know why you're there.
Miss Suzanne in her post mentioned the guy that hinted about getting to know her much better...and then after...of course a client wouldn't do that, he doesn't have to hint, he knows what he is paying for, and he has read reviews and a website, and message board posts and back channeled to be sure there is no maybe...that guy, he had a maybe, and he looks like a dolt because of his less than suave way of broaching that maybe...but if it wasn't a given, I doubt most clients would do much better.
When you accept a civvie date, do any of you ladies have it as given you are going to dfk, bbj, mish and doggie for at least one or two pops that your civvie date can get off in the hour? or do you approach it as something different too?
You can say clients are better than civvies, and the guys can say providers are better than civvies, but I suspect it is only because of the role you each play as client and provider, and when those roles aren't there...we are all pretty much just like those doltish civvies we tell one another each is so much better than.
I am sorry to hear you have had such a rough time Miss Vicki, I do hope you find better in your life as you deserve better, but I am not sure being wistful about how much better clients are than other men will help you find that better. Best of luck for all you desire.
-- Modified on 4/5/2006 2:47:26 AM
getting a Ferrari all factory assembled, or having it arrive all disassembled in pieces that need to be put together.
You could end up with the same thing, and it might be more fun to put it together, but more likely you'll screw it up.
I don't think anyone assumes that the two are related in any way. I just think that these women get so disappointed in civie dating that they feel with a client at least they know they get paid for it, even if it's not that enjoyable. I know that sounds harsh, but when you've been providing for awhile, it make since. And until someone knocks my socks off and acts like a gentleman on the first date, I'll continue to provide. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
Do I behave differently when with an escort or with a civie? I believe not. I am courteous, try to be on time, clean and concerned that my date enjoy herself, and ALWAYS believe that is something is NOT ON THE MENU, it is not on the menu. Having said that, you would be hard pressed to explain some of my civie dates, on any level.
There are the "gamers" who are constantly trying to "best" you, there are the "primadonnas" who want to be the center of not just your attention, but the world's attention, there are the inconsiderate women who are ungracious and NEVER return a favor and many many others.
I don't know why some ladies go into this business, I don't ask. Curiously, though, several have offered me an explanation - and really sought out a personal - human connection with me. I know that this is not a come-on, but rather another human, just being human. In civie dates, or the ones that I have had since my divorce and slightly before my marriage... the human element, was just not there.
Sorry ladies, but to me, most of you sell yourself short - not your rate (lol), but your self-esteem. The ones that I have met, seem to be a cut above average when it comes to just being human. Yes, I know it is a business, but it can be done in a lot of ways... please see the opening scene from "Monster's Ball" - I had a session like that ONCE. It was horrible and I felt bad for weeks. Most civie dates... well they go like that.
It is not all about the sex or for that matter the money.
-- Modified on 4/5/2006 7:17:42 AM
I am going to tell a hypothetical story here...
Let's say I met a lady online, she is in this business, and for whatever reason she likes my posts, my mind, my whatever...and she contacts me.
We converse through emails, PMs and phone calls for a number of months, and finally the opportunity arises for us to meet...
She and I both mention that we have through those aforementioned conversations, have come to care for and like each other.
Now, hypothetically, when she travels to where I live it will not just be to meet me but to work as well.
Now, that means she will be taking appointments the day before and the day after she and I meet.
Those clients will have their "envelopes" and meet for their dinner dates, with the expectation that 2 hours into a four hour "date" they will go up to a room and have their "behind closed doors" time. She and the client may be a bit a nervous, and each may hope the other likes them, at least to the extent the appoinment goes well. They may hope that they click enough for a positive end YMMV encounter, and if so maybe have a future appointment and maybe an even longer appointment next time. In the event they do not click, then he cares that he doesn't feel he spent his money well, or didn't get his money's worth.
He may be courteous, and on time, and clean, and be concernered that she enjoy herself...
Now, on the other hand, when she and I, hypothetically, meet after our months of correspondence, and our sharing of ourselves, and opening up to one another, I will have no envelope, no expectation of "behind closed doors" time. I will be nervous, not because I want my money's worth, or a "fun" four hours, because it isn't my money on the line, it's my heart. I risk at the very least losing someone I have come to think of as a friend and perhaps the promise of much more. Whereas she and I have said neither of us ever intended on finding someone that we felt this way about, we have in each other...ooopppps, and when we meet that is what is at stake. I want her to like me, and am scared she may not, not because I might get a negative YMMV experience, but because I care about her, and I don't want her to be disappointed when she meets me, I don't want her to meet me and think that opening her heart a bit to me was a mistake. I hope at the very least she and I spend 4 hours together, but would prefer 8 or 12, and I have no expectations that 2 or 4 or 8 hours into our being together well, do the "behind closed doors" thing. When we finally part, I hope our conversation has just begun...and after we meet it may be months before we meet in person again sustained only by emails and phone calls, and the next time we meet I will still have no expectations of "behind closed doors" time "x" number of hours into our time together.
I won't place an envelope down for her, but I will hold out my heart...I have only done so once before in my life and that time is was refused in a most painful way.
I won't be suave or confident, or charming. I will say stupid things, and stutter and be far too much myself...and I will be scared because the most intelligent, fun, funny, compassionate, insightful, kind, amazing person I have met will be before me and and in my awkward ways I will stand before her and hope she isn't disappointed. I will try and find the perfect gift to take her, not because I hope to show how great I am, or make her think better of me, but to try and find some token that will come anywhere close to reflecting how I feel about her.
Though I fully intend on being courteous, and on time, and clean, and be concernered that she enjoy herself...I won't be acting like a client...because I will not be a client when she and I hypothetically meet.
Maybe I am just a too sensative, too emotional, too stupid romantic idiot that can hypothetically fall for a lady I have never met in person, and can have my day be better simply by seeing her name in the sender area of an email in my inbox, and hope that she can feel the same when she gets an email or call from me.
Maybe clients are better, but even if they are...I can't behave as a client when she and I meet, and in all honesty, I don't want to.
Hypotheticall speaking of course.
that you are a romantic
i love romantics
but rather -- as you stated -- "most of you sell yourself short - not your rate (lol), but your self-esteem." Hardly, my dear. Again, I don't think that's what this post is about, and all providers should not be locked into one category. It's about decency on a first date for some of us, about the bullshit when in actuality we really want the real and hopefully nice person. If the guy is going to be rude or fake, then I prefer the Profession, because at least with most clients you get a gentleman for the night and get paid. 
I know I have pretty good self esteem. What about the rest of you ladies on TER?
Hugs,
Ciara
Very poor way of expressing my concept.... and difficult to express in postings....
Am real sorry there are so many web sites to join it will come out But not at first But the 3 rd dated you will need to say something and maybe it will be cool
This real not true
...The fact that when you are an escort, men who wish to see you are seeking you out, and are seeing you because of who you are, and what you look like. OTOH civie men are always hung up about something and unless you look like the ideal woman to them, you are not worth pursuing.
Also men int he Hobby generally know how to treat a women and do not insult a woman on her appearance or looks or things like that. If you do not click with a woman, then you typically move on.
Good luck anyways Vicki. The Boston area misses you (at least I do).
So many people are trying to analyze this subject to death. The fact is, civie dating has changed in the past 10 to 20 years. No longer is there romance, the thought of a future relationship. Everything is how much money do you make, I don't want a commitment just sex, my ex did this or that -- blah, blah, blah. It's taken the fun and romance out of dating. Of course, age has something to do with it. One can have eyes wide open now and catch more B.S. than when younger. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
I do agree with the analysis part... we are tending to over analyze... but my observations are for the most part amusing to me... As I have posted in the past, I find that women my age... are a bit strange? to say the least... see my recent post in this thread above...
And that women my age do not wish to date me! go figure. Women who are younger, do wish to date me....!? eeek... and they are pretty hot! to boot... no I do not civie date anyone who is much younger - except for my stripper friend... but that is soooo platonic that it is really freightening...
Don't know if it is that I have changed or while I was married - the world changed... too close to call! lol
-- Modified on 4/5/2006 8:20:45 AM
i'm fickle and picky on attraction which makes my dating life even harder of course, there are alot of guys who pursue me, and I am attracted to about a quarter of them, its just that when they get me to finally pay any attention to them, they have no idea what to do with me
i know it has alot to do with the kind of guy i am attracted to (younger white males), they THINK they want me and they talk a good game, but then when i say "hey come crawl into bed with me"
it's all "i have to work early in the morning, blah blah blah blah"
ugh, i just want to say "put up or shut up!"
i swear i am the MAN in half of these interactions.
It is SOOO FRUSTRATING!! i want to scream.
heres an example;
there is this really cute kid, he's been trying to talk to me for months and i pretty much ignored him. Finally i said, "fuck it, let me see what he is about"
we had some good coversations, we had some sexy conversations, we talked about alot of stuff and we both wanted to just "hook up", (neither of us thinks it would be more than that really) so we set up a time to meet. I gave him my # and said "if you cant make it or are going to be late, give me a call, so i dont rush home for nothing."
he doesnt show or call
He emails me the NEXT day saying "so sorry got caought up at work"
I was sooo pissed, not cause i didnt get laid, but because he didnt have the decency to just call me and say "i am tied up at work"
WTF!! that is so rude.
-- Modified on 4/5/2006 8:28:55 AM
Men who know you only want sex think it's okay to be impolite. Go figure! You'd think he'd be jumping at the chance (or at least 'jumping into your pants). Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
..What did you mean? Did you not respond to his emails or return his phone calls?
Look at it from his side. If he made overtures towards you, and was not responded to previously, perhaps he felt that he did not need to respond to you either if plans changed.
when i say ignore, i mean, i get about 200 emails a day from fans and men, i don't read half of them let alone respond to them. IF you really want to get my attention you are probably going to have to be VERY persistent. He was, so eventually i responded to one of his emails.
so I don't confuse one life picture with the other. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
lol, well i only have one life now since i quit the business, i use to have a bunch of different emails and all that but needed to simplify everything.
most of the emails i get are thru MYSPACE.
re you on it?
actually i wonder how many people in are on myspace
Get things confused. better is to go with a secure adult e-mail service... there seems to be on crawling out every day..... and they have age verification systems in place to more or less extents... I really caution you all on this.
information on any site about myself. That's too dangerous.
Hugs,
Ciara
and even some weekends. Or maybe life is largely about making our fantasies into realities.
When you look for love, you never find it.
It's always when you stop searching that love finds you.
No one is going to get in line for you until you get out of the line your in for them.
He was certainly right about that.