Hey Gent's and Ladies:

I've asked the powers that be at TER to no longer allow these types of posts and they've asked me to bring it to the TER populace via this board.  So I'm giving it a shot. I'm referring to posts that people put up when the provider they are trying to reach has taken down her info or has not responded to that specific's persons emails or other attempts to contact them.  That's not the classic ISO type of post that I'm talking about - there's a board for that.   A common post like this is in regards to the original poster not getting responses from a provider they've seen in the past  - basically not taking no or "crickets" for an answer and then they make the post, tracking her down.  Or ones that have left the business or are taking extended breaks and have pulled their site/ads.  

Here's a recent example from the ATL board:
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=238521&boardID=18&page=1#238521

You can see from the responses this girl isn't working anymore and doesn't want to be found.  In recent weeks there were 2 regarding the same retired provider where the original poster was trying to track her down and people actually responded giving him information about her real world job and personal life (those were flagged and pulled by TER).  That provider retired, left the business and deserves to exit without harassment.  Another example that sticks out in my mind was where someone's ex boyfriend found out she was a provider and posted an inquiry about her.  Eventually, after MANY posts offering info on where she works as a dancer and the area of her incall it was admitted by the poster that he was her ex and he wanted to harm her.  I remember his screename being something along the lines of MURDERJUNKIE.  I ended up flagging the post after it was up for days and TER took it down but he already had everytHing he needed from the replies and the back channels - she was quite possibly in danger because of our kindness in helping people.   But not everyone wants to be found.  

Folks, providers are in the business of making themselves available via email/phone/ads and websites.  If she wants to be found - she will.  If she disappears and wants to keep in touch with special friends, she will make sure those special friends know how to reach her.  A gal pulls her info or doesn't want to do the 'back and forth" with someone for a reason.  This business is somewhat founded on a NO STRINGS ATTACHED dynamic that's being eroded to adverse effect for us and our safety.  Allowing these kinds of post is just asking for trouble almost all of the time.  Let's stop it, please.

Final note:  I'm not talking about those avoiding bad press or problems, that's something different.  I'd just like to see what privacy/safety we can possibly maintain in this business to be a little better protected in regards to this dynamic.  

If you concur that TER discussion boards can survive and thrive just fine without these types of posts - please add your support to this thread. thanks, e

-- Modified on 11/30/2013 7:09:47 PM

and she still is not getting back to you either she is to busy or doesn't want to see you for one reason or another(take a hint will you?).  On another hand it could be that she retired and is no longer taking calls or UTR and no longer wants posts about her anywhere, asking about her could be problematic and cause issues in many more ways then it could be possible for someone to conceive of.  So with that said I totally agree that these types of posts should be banned.  They are not helpful and can even hinder a provider while giving the guest no real good info to go on.

When a provider retires or goes UTR, she will inform those people she wants to keep in touch with

I am generally against censorship but understand the concern (at what point does the innocent query become stalking?). Personally, if I do not receive a reply, I move on w/o asking why (there are 1000 good reasons). If I politely ask again on a later occasion and again hit a dry well, I mark her as "don't bother" (privately) - it has happened on a couple of occasions. My opinions of guys who cannot let go: loser, creep, get a life.

If self-policing (don't answer the query unless you can point to a current provider ad for the lady in question) does not work, then I vote for the ban

The provider in question on the Atlanta board stilll has a published  ter profile. While there are no links to her ads, the profile remains up. We had the same issue in Vegas months ago when a certain group of providers left town and delisted. For months guys asked where they were. As fast as the 411 posts went up, they were pulled, that's because some filled a "report that post" with TER and since the providers all had their profiles removed the 411 posts were pulled.  

Not sure how TER could monitor this situation if the profiles aren't pulled, but I agree these providers are all entitled to their privacy. When there used to be regional board moderators, in many instances they knew what was going on behind the scenes,  and these 411 posts never saw the light of day. Maybe it's time to bring back regional board mods.

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I am not ONLY addressing those who are retired or delisted (and I know you get this but I wanted to be really certain all readers get it).  That's just one category.  There are times when a girl is on a break, vacation, or avoiding someone specific and not returning some or all emails/calls - this is also an issue.  Basically, (and I'm borrowing some of this from another poster in Las Vegas), using TER to track someone down, trying to contact someone through this board or a third party because they aren't answering your inquiries is just not good.  Many of us has seen this lead to real world problems.   These are discussion boards - not match.com or a support group for those with unanswered inquiries.  The client/provider relationship  = NSA.  

-- Modified on 11/30/2013 8:18:05 PM

Thank you.  That's exactly how I feel and "think" things should go.  Try and maybe try once more a while later and then let it go.  I've posted about this and have had discussions about this trying to get it policed but folks keep responding to these with information and often private/personal info.  I very much appreciate your input/POV.

Please, TER, consider what she is asking of you!

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The person I'm talking about is delisted and was at the time of those posts.  I do appreciate your support and your making the effort to post here.

..chooses to retire, or go UTR, she deserves peace.

Hugs and Kisses,
Kelly

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Learn to shut the fk up! If someone does not want to be found, there is a reason. Posting a damn ISO of a provider who has not had a review in over six months, a website that is dead, and no ads to be found, is ASININE! Also, for those of you who post private phone numbers in a review or on the boards, are you high? If you don't see that phone number in her ad or website, then it's not for public knowledge! I don't care if it's a google voice number she gave you to contact her after screening....you don't post it!  

-- Modified on 12/1/2013 4:31:46 PM

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We advertise to be found.  Those who retire typically do not want to be found, and can ensure they are in contact with anyone that the actually do still want to be in contact with.  There are many reasons for ladies to want to disappear - safety from abusive spouses, stalkers, public or professional considerations in their "real worlds", etc... Just as a client should be able to disappear at whim, so should the ladies.  It's hard enough to do a disappearing act with the internet and unscrupulous ad sites that have stolen the ads to begin with, why should we have to worry about it here too?

.02

The sometimes allowed, sometimes not discussion of delisted providers is a failed policy. It should go back to no discussions of delisted providers. Period. That would solve some of the problems.

As far as the posts looking for a provider, that really has to be addressed on a case by case basis. I know the thread that you were talking about on the ATL board because I commented on it. In that case I agreed that said "hobbyist" needed to find a new "provider" because he sounded like a stalker. However, most of those type of posts are legitimate questions and should be allowed as long as the provider is not delisted. Obviously, if such a post is made by current and experienced hobbyist, it should be allowed. It's the posts that come from "new" handles that should be looked at with suspicion but it can be difficult to decipher what is legitimate and what is not.  

As far as personal information being posted, there is no excuse for that. Local moderators were pretty good at keeping that off the boards and in some cases had intimate knowledge of who was bad and who was good. Policing locally was much more efficient.  

In conclusion, I agree that delisted providers should not be discussed, but not allowing questions about a currently listed provider's business practices should not be off limits, but scrutinized more for new or first time posters.

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I think I understand what you're getting at but some of it doesn't SEEM like it can be properly applied here.  Firstly, this request for change is not based on one post or one week of posts or the ATL board itself.  But many many many many posts over a long period of time across all boards since boards moderators were taken out of the equation.  The major problem being that, as the boards are processed now, there can't be a case by case basis.   Reality is that there's thousands and thousands of members here.  Just about every post goes up and it stays there unless flagged.  Additionally, there are guys who get their buddies to post for them because they have a better, or more respected, online presence.  Or because they know that provider is actively avoiding them and they use that as a work around.  Oh, and let's not forget those with multiple screenames to help their duplicity.  This process defeats the general populace being able really see and understand what's going on.  

As far as someone's business practices...  If you're talking about no call no shows or someone being habitually late or making promises she's not keeping and the like, Yes, I think that's fair game.  If you're talking about someone not returning someone's emails or general correspondence - I staunchly disagree. And this is the type of post I'm addressing.  It's a large part of the problem and has been.  

I think we can all agree that there are plenty of providers who are horrible at returning inquiries and communicating and some who are habitually prompt.  MY bottom line, I don't feel that the information the readers get from the "so and so isn't answering her phone or emails" is worth the risk of the potential issues brought about by said posts.  I'm not trying to be dismissive of your opinion, I respect it as your opinion and it's a valid one.  But, in my mind, if a provider isn't responding to emails, so what?  How's not getting a response to an inquiry a PROBLEM or something that meets the threshold of having to bring it to the boards?  Personally, I feel as though the discussion boards, in this sense, are being used as a support group for the "scorned" when we don't know if there's "real" cause or actual failure on the other person's part.  A person sending an email doesn't require or contract the receiver to answer.  This is someone providing "fun and fantasy" not anything critical.  

I would offer that what "good business practices are" in THIS specific sense is extraordinarily subjective.  Why should any provider (or client for that matter) be expected to account why she didn't return someone's inquiry or call or email in this public forum.  There's no governing body to give guidelines and clients/provider are accountable only to themselves as to how they go about it.   Sometimes failing to reply is simply a matter of the provider (or client) gettin by with the least hassle or fear of back-lash. Or could be their kid was sick, they're on vacation, had surgery...  It's their shop and they can open and close or run it how they choose.  Their business will thrive or die as they manage it and that's how the consequences of their practices are measured.  And for the record, yes, I certainly don't like it when clients ask me if they can book on XXX day, I respond that I'm available,  and then - I get "crickets".  Annoying, but I move on as that's the nature of THIS business.  

Maybe an example will help but I caution this is just ONE example and does not speak to all the problems this encompasses. A few months ago there was a post where the someone posted "what happened to so and so?  I saw her 2 weeks ago and she's not responding to my emails and texts."  Very quickly a reply came along the lines of "I just saw her 2 days ago... made contact and was screened the day before".  What wasn't seen or known on the boards was that this provider was trying to avoid repeating or continuing to communicate with this person.  In this case, she felt that this person would not react well to any "kindly worded" push off she could author and send.  And rightly so it turns out.  After he got those responses from the boards he was found hanging around her incall, making calls and emailing threats to her "why won't you see me again you bitch!  You're just a whore....  I'll ruin your business!"   And I realize this is not the every person or even most person's response, but it's common.  And I say common as in common, I'm not exaggerating.  

We all want to be responded to.  To feel like we count and I hear this complaint (every now and then) from some really great guys.  And you AREN'T complaining and are probably a great guy.  Please realize great guys often can't fathom the level of creepy or offensive or aggressive behavior that douches display/commit.   Or the lengths that bad guys and, sometimes, their buddies/clique will go through when they've been denied service at the onset or are told that someone they've already seen doesn't want to see them again.  

Thanks for your time and input.  
   


-- Modified on 12/2/2013 12:51:37 AM

...people see an improper post and realize it shouldn't be left up but they do nothing about it.  Others specifically state they don't report posts.  Maybe they think they're being rats if they report improper posts.  In fact, there is a former mod who brags about not reporting posts yet when he was a mod he pulled probably thousands of posts.  I guess he is still butt hurt that TER dumped the mods.

TER does not pay close attention to the boards as the former moderators did.  NOW WE ARE ALL MODERATORS!!  It is up to us to keep the type of posts Erica is referring to off the boards.

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Again, you can't stop all members from posting inquiries and making statements about a provider's business practices and whether or not they respond to emails, texts or phone calls. The review section has these items listed, and they are fair game. The only solution is no discussion of delisted providers since that would seem to cover most of the problems that you are citing.  

To address your example of a provider looking to avoid a certain hobbyist, that is something between her and the hobbyist and it is not TER's responsibility to help the provider to pick and choose who she responds to and it's not their responsibility to quell a response such as "I saw her two days ago".  

While I sympathize with your plight, suggesting that TER police the boards with a such a broad stroke of the brush simply won't work. Providers have plenty of other avenues to deal with the stalkers such as blacklists and it the worse cases, the real police and other authorities.  

The only solution is no discussion of delisted providers since that would seem to cover most of the problems that you are citing. Sorry if I sound like a broken record on this, but this is something that TER can control and the ultimate safety factor lies with the provider.

Panthera and Erica both raise valid points.  As I try to determine whose camp I support...I am riding the fence.  I agree that TER can't police the boards for every stupid or thoughtless post.  So..I'm with Panthera on that.

But...there is an area that makes this tough and potentially unsafe for the ladies.  If a lady isn't delisting...she should be able to avoid a guy she doesn't want to interact with.  And that shouldn't be held against her/hurt her business.  A gent might pass all her screening and still turn out to be an ass or worse.  If a lady decides she doesn't want to see that guy again...and further wants to avoid all contact with him, that is her choice and she really shouldn't have to provide a reason.  If a gent didn't pass her screening...all the more reason she wants to avoid him.  

A well adjusted lad would move on in either case.  But, Erica and the other ladies are not talking about well adjusted lads...and the well adjusted rarely act that way to begin with. The rebuff of a provider stings no matter who you are.  Some dudes just lose their shit at any rejection and the situation has now escalated.  It's something of an indicator how far they've gone down the "women are objects" path.  Their attitudes betray a belief that they should not be refused in my opinion.  After all...they are paying.  This attitude is wrong.  

On this point, I'm with Erica.  But...rather than TER policing...I think there is a middle ground.

We should all encourage a safe environment for these ladies by actively discouraging the "she's not replying...help me contact her" type messages.  Clearly...messages won't always look they way.  But...when recognized...the response from the community should be...let it go.  Nothing more...nothing less.  For the more cleverly disguised ISOs...we should only reveal/share what is already available on the lady's site.  If she wants to reply...she can.  She doesn't need our help.

Further, posting a reply "huh...that's wierd, I emailed her yesterday and she replied" to an ISO "can't seem to reach her..." seems to breach the personal information policy in a tangential way.  What business of the board is it?  That private discourse shouldn't be disclosed on the public boards in my opinion.  I just don't see what value that adds anyway.  "Oh, she's talking to you..okay...I feel better now".  If anything...it makes it worse.  It confirms she is avoiding him.  

In the end...if we don't help the ladies avoid the riffraff by at least refraining from helping the riffraff (i.e.-doing nothing)...at best we drive up the cost for ourselves in actual money, stricter screening practices, etc.  At worst we contribute to unsafe situations.  

 
Anyway...my 2 cents and then some....

 

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But it can be really hard to get reviews taken down. If you have an ad up anyplace, TER will consider you active and won't let you delist. Even if the ad is on one of those sites like SugarNights or freepostsite who steal photos and content, then don't respond to your requests to remove said content.

Definitely if a provider has delisted, guys should just let well enough alone.

There is more harm done by these posts to ladies who are stalked or outed, than benefit to girls who switch agencies or go indy...plus, with girls who switch identities/agencies/go indy, reviews can be linked to the new name and announcements can be made. I.E. "'Louise', formerly 'Cindy', is now independent/available through us."

People want to be helpful as Erica said...it rarely occurs to them that their 'help' can have terrible repercussions. I'd love to see these kinds of posts disallowed.

Thank you for posting this!!!

Our safety should matter!
MD

I am all for Provider safety and anonymity.  Did they want to take a break or retire and remain totally private, we hobbyists should respect that and move on..

Just think before you post.  

In the case of an independent who has suddenly pulled all photos, sites, ads, and isn't answering emails...she doesn't want to be found. Even IF she has changed her name and is still working, it is probably for reasons of safety. Name-changing is NOT profitable at all (at least not initially) for higher-end, reputable escorts. So maybe she was outed, stalked, or is in the midst of child-custody proceedings with an ex who knew about 'Julie', etc. So it would be dangerous for the wrong person to know that 'Julie' is really the old 'Darcy'.  

In the case of an agency girl who might/might not be working elsewhere...no harm in asking. In the case of a disreputable escort...she probably hasn't really pulled all her old photos/ads like girls do who freak out due to a bad situation, or retire. There will be stuff still up. She might even have the same number.

It should be pretty easy for guys to figure out which is which...if only they thought for a second, which so many of them just really don't do.

Example: This actually happened a while back in my city. Girl has a perfectly good reputation. Has site, ads. Posts an ad on her regional board one week. Next week....she's outed. Takes down site, scours photos from the web. Dude who has previously made an appt posts on the BOARDS, asking 'What's up with so-and-so' rather than just emailing her and asking. Thank goodness that post WAS reported and removed. This sh** happens too often, and that's what Erica's talking about.

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Mandatory reading, acknowledge you read it, and fully understand the consequences of your actions.
With rights come responsibilities.  
They test 16 yr olds before they let them take a 4000 pound hunk of metal flying inches away from you in the opposite lane.

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