Who are the top ten pitchers that you've actually seen pitch? Here is my list:
1. Sandy Koufax
2. Juan Marichal
3. Bob Gibson
4. Nolan Ryan
5. Tom Seaver
6. Jim Palmer
7. Ferguson Jenkins
8. Steve Carlton
9. Greg Maddux
10. Randy Johnson
It was a toss-up about Whitey. I also wanted to include Warren Spahn, but I never saw him in his prime.
I'd definitely include Whitey Ford and Warren Spahn, and I'd eliminate Nolan Ryan (a lot of strikeouts, but barely a .500 pitcher) and Jenkins (a very good pitcher, but not quite as good as Ford and Spahn).
-- Modified on 6/1/2009 5:40:48 AM
1. Willie Mays
2. Mickey Mantle
3.Jackie Robinson
4.Henry Aaron
5.Ted Williams
6.Pete Rose
7.Stan Musial
8.Mike Schmidt
9.Brooks Robinson
10.Frank Robinson
I saw every one of those guys play except Jackie Robinson and Ted Williams. Williams retired the year before I became a baseball fan. Great list also.
When I was a little kid, my Dad took me to Yankee Stadium (we were from Brooklyn, and we were Dodger fans) just so I could see both Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio. That was my first baseball game in person, and I've never forgotten it. After that, of course, I went to Ebbets Field many times to see the Dodgers, and I'll tell you right now that watching Jackie Robinson was an absolute pleasure! When Robinson got on base (which was often), the game took on another dimension. We all know about Jackie Robinson's significance and his impact on the game, but having said that, I still think he was UNDERRATED.
The Dodgers of the 50's had a number of truly great players (Campy, the Duke, Pee Wee), but Jackie was the foundation of that team.
One guy played in 12 World Series, winning 7. The other played in 3 World Series, winning 1. Two times they faced each other in the World Series: Mantle 2, Mays 0. Winning is the name of the game, and far too frequently Willie's Giants finished second while Mickey's Yankees were winning it all. Enough said.
Not even close. Mays was a much better all-around player than Mantle.
Better at what? Leading his team to second place finishes? Stats are for losers - winning is what counts, and Mickey did FAR more winning than Willie and The Duke COMBINED.
the best of the three (Mantle, Mays, Snider). Snider (among other things) hit 40 or more HRs 5 years in a row. Before the steroid boys came along, only Ruth and Kiner matched that. Snider's career was effectively ended when the Dodgers moved to LA and played in the Coliseum with its 460 ft. right field line.
My post on Mays below.
Duke was certainly great, but was not the baserunner nor the defender that Mickey or Willie were. I agree that his career was finished by the dimensions of the Coliseum.
about this when we were kids.
First, great list. Looks like we are both older than dirt, and I have seen your entire list in person as well. Second, I now your list are starting pictures, but Mariano Rivera was lights out in his prime. I know, not too bad today, but during the Yankee run in the 1990s, he was unhittable.
One other starter to throw in the mix. I was a big Don Drysdale fan. Why? Because he knew when to throw at batters and wouldn't get tossed from the game. There is one funny and true story about Don. Walter Alston comes to the mound and instructs Don to intentionally walk the next batter. Don said, why waste 4 pitches when I can use just one and hit him with it.
P.S. Not sure it was intentional, but thank you for leaving Clemens off your list.
I left Clemens off intentionally. I saw Drysdale too and it was hard leaving him off.
The first live baseball game I ever saw as a little kid was Sandy Koufax in old Forbes Field pitching to Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell, and the Pirates. It may have been the Pirates last winning season - LOL.
The moment they allow one of those steroid-pumping phonies into the Hall, there will be an outrage that will have to allow Pete Rose to be released from his ban, I would think.
Ranking Nolan Ryan ahead of Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Ferguson Jenkins, Steve Carlton, Greg Maddux, & Randy Johnson? Wow...Oh, by the way, where is Roger Clemens?
You may have a point about Ryan, but Clemens' attitude during the whole steroid mess has been repulsive. If he used the stuff, he should have just came out and admitted it, like Andy Pettite did. Ryan's 7 no-hitters and 12 1-hitters are hard to overlook. Yes, he had a lot of walks, but his control (or lack of it) terrified a lot of hitters and made his stuff that much more effective.
I refer to Roger Roids in a strictly tongue-in-cheek way.
a .500 pitcher.
With a .526 lifetime winning percentage, I always saw The Ryan Express as essentially a one-trick pony - big on strikeouts, small on victories. When compared to the other pitchers of his era (Seaver, Palmer, Carlton, etc.), he falls short.
Some may argue a no-no is more luck than skill but 7?
Pure excitement of watching him play---run, field, throw, basket catch, durability.
Stats-no contest:
Willie > 650 HR-- AND, he lost 2 yrs to Army in his prime.
He played much of career in shitty Candlestick.
He did not have the short porch that Mickey had at the Stadium.
Mickey was truly great, but he got better pitches to hit because of his great teams--accounting for more trips to the Series.
Mickey might have been even better save for injury and better self-care.
People sleep on him for some reasons. He not only had 755 homers but had 3771 hits. That means he had 3,000 hits without the homers. Only three players are members of the 500/3000 club: Aaron, Mays and Eddie Murry
the 500/3000 club had he not spent almost 5 years in the military during the peak years of his career. Ted Williams' stats are amazing - can you imagine how good they'd be with 5 more years of his peak performance?
Thats right. He not only flew combat missions in WWII but also fought in Korea.
-- Modified on 6/2/2009 6:15:41 PM
1. Sandy Koufax
2. Bob Gibson
3. Greg Maddox
4. Don Drysdale
5. John Smoltz
6. Randy Johnson
7. Curt Schilling
8. Tom Seaver
10. Tom Glavine
No Mariano Reveria? The most automatic pitcher in the 90's. Ok the Yankees haven't won anything lately because of him. But his resume is impressive, 1999 WS MVP as a reliever. Late 90's and early 2000 no one could touch him. do you really think the Yankees go on that run without him? He should definitly be in the top 10 all time and there really isn't a race for the best all time closer.