LeBron will never even come close to MJ.  

He just doesn't have that look of the 'assassin' that MJ's opponents feared.  You knew at any minute that Jordan could take over the game.  

Jordan would have destroyed this spurs team with any one of his 6 championship teams.

You can't compare LeBron today to Michael Jordan. MJ is considered by most experts to be prob. a TOP 3 player of all time. He is in the A+ room in the Hall of Fame hanging out with Chamberlain, Russell, and Kareem (rank them anyway you want). NOBODY has ever said at this point in his career, that LeBron James is anywhere near being in that discussion. It's like saying well Mickey Mantle never came close to being Babe Ruth. No kidding. But being Mickey Mantle is still being an all time great.

But there is NO doubt that LeBron is well on his well to a brilliant, Hall of Fame Career. He could retire today and be voted in.  He has won FOUR NBA MVP's. Only Kareem (6), MJ (5) and Russell (5) have won more. I will guarantee that when LeBron has finished playing, he will certainly be viewed as a top 10 player in NBA history, and maybe even closer to 5. At the end of the day, LeBron will be a lot closer to MJ then you think.  

And if you want more proof just how great LeBron is, he took a Cleveland team to the NBA finals that without him prob. wins 25 games. As a young player, with no playoff experience, he put that team on his back. (I could argue that Jordan never got to an NBA finals until Pippen truly arrived, but the competition of having to go through Boston/Detroit in the mid to late 80's was far more brutal than what James faced in 2007, I'll leave that point alone)  

I really think people (not assuming you do or don't) root strongly against LeBron simply because of how he left Cleveland. Could he have handled it differently? Of course? Was the Television Decision Show, followed by the 3 ring circus with he, Wade and Bosh parading on a stage in Miami like fools, a poor choice? Of course. If he had left Cleveland graciously, no one would have ever questioned him and he would be viewed far more favorably.  

If the Heat win the Championship, that will be 2 titles (and most likely 2 Finals MVP awards) in 4 trips. Pretty elite company in the annals of NBA history.....

   

 

-- Modified on 6/19/2013 12:44:33 AM

and the ones that get so offended by them.

LeBron james is NOT Michael Jordan. wanna compare to mj, start with KOBE BRYANT. that is the closest thing we have seen to mj, since mj.  

mj was 6'6. LeBron is 6'8.
mj is listed at around 220 lbs. lbj is 260.
mj was a world class athlete in the 80s and 90s. lbj is THE BEST ATHLETIC SPECIMEN we have EVER seen.
mj had the speed of a cheetah. lbj runs like a Ferrari.
mj lost in the FIRST ROUND 3 times. lbj, though he did miss the playoffs twice, has never lost a first round series.
for all that is said about LeBron as a shooter, mj shot UNDER 20% from 3 in 3 of his first 4 years. LeBron has only once shot under 30% from 3.
mj averaged just over 6 rebounds and just over 5 assists per game. LeBron is over 7 rebounds and barely under 7 assists per game.
in the playoffs, mj averaged 6.4 rebounds and 5.7 assists. lbj is at 8.7 rebounds and 6.7 assists per playoff game in his career.
lbj shot 56% from the field this year, mj never did that.
the heat won 27 games in a row this year, mjs bulls never did that.

for every argument you can make against LeBron, you can make another one for him. but here is the thing, LEBRON DOESNT WANT TO BE JORDAN. he is a far more willing passer. he doesn't even play the same position as Jordan.  

basically, just stop being a freaking hater and enjoy the greatness before you.

and before you say anything, im a much bigger fan of Carmelo, kobe and wade than I am of LeBron.

agree with a couple of your points...disagree with some others.

I could care less how he left Cleveland.  Was it classless...you bet. But, he didn't owe Cleveland shit.  He can play for whatever team in whatever city he wants.  Free country and all that.  

My point is...when Jordon got to the finals...you never saw him play a series like LeBron is playing right now.  I understand they are different players (and that's sort of my point). I'm mainly talking about that 'intangible' quality that Jordon had.  Not how many titles..not how many mvp's, etc.  You could see Jordon just decide to take over a game and own every player on the court.  LeBron has zero killer instinct.  He cannot take over a game the way MJ did repeatedly.  Can he develop that ability?  Maybe...but I doubt it.  That just isn't his style...and that's a shame.  

On the other hand...I hate how the media over-hypes the importance of this series for LeBron's legacy and the Heat's legacy.  On the one hand...this is their third consecutive trip to the finals and fourth in 5-6 years for LeBron.  Even if they lose this one to the Spurs...they could be back again next year.  In the next breath, they talk about the "Spurs Dynasty".  In recent history, spurs won their first title in 99 against the Knicks.  then in 02 vs the Nets.  Then 05 vs. Detroit.  Then 07 vs. the Cavs.  Then obviously...in the finals now.  

5 finales appearances in 14 years and at least 4 titles...possibly 5.  Everyone calls it a dynasty?  I don't get it.  Then, the Heat make it 3 years running and somehow they are dogs if they don't win every year.   This is actually the Heat's fourth trip over the same time as the Spurs.  Sure, the Spurs have won more titles...

If anyone has rights to the "dynasty" talk during that period...it's the Lakers.  7 appearances and and 5 titles during the same time frame as the Spurs dynasty.  

Anyway...back to my main point...the gap between Jordan and LeBron is much bigger in my opinion...simply based on how they played the game.  Jordan's sweat was an elixir of hatred for losing.  Sure, they got Pippen in for Jordan...and a host of other role players...and what did Pippen do without Jordan...nothing.  Who made who?  You will never convince me that Pippen made Jordan better.  It was 180,000 percent the other way around.  Period.  Pippen was lucky to be on that court with Jordan and ride his coattails to all those titles and the "top 50 best players" ever honor.  In fact, which of Jordan's team mates won titles without him?  Not Pippen.

Dennis Rodman (Pistons 89,90).  
Horace Grant (Lakers 01)
Robert Parish (Celtics 81,84,86)
Steve Kerr (Spurs, 99)
Ron Harper (Lakers 00,01)
John Salley (Lakers 00, Pistons 89, 90)

are there any others?  I can't think of any....

Here's all his teammates for the titles:
http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/teammates.htm

And with the exception of maybe Parish, none of these guys were more than role players on their other title teams (same as with the Bulls).  Are they talented...sure..they're in the NBA, they are all talented.  Is the talent around LeBron less than what Jordan had?  Probably (especially on the Cavs).  But, the league is not as good now as it was when Jordan played (IMHO).  So..something of a wash there.    

So, while LeBron might make top 10 all time...that does nothing to illuminate the gap between Jordan and the next best player.  That's all I'm saying.  I never had the privilege to watch Russell or Chamberlin so I can't really rank them but you can't argue their stats. I remember watching Kareem toward the end of his career.  I still put Jordan at the top for players I've seen play and definitely over LeBron.  It's not about titles to me...it's how they play the game.  Jordon just did it better for my tastes

I think the problem with the Lakers run over the past 15 years is that its viewed as two completely separate teams: With Shaq and then without Shaq. Thus people wrongly dismiss their run as a "dynasty" because Shaq was not part of all five titles. But you are right; the Lakers (from 1999-2013) are every bit the dynasty (if not more) that the Spurs are considered to be. Maybe its because it seems as if its been Duncan, Ginobli and Parker have been together for ever...In reality they latter two weren't around for the first title. The only constants have been Duncan and Kobe...Again, perception often trumps reality and I think that's the case here.  

The Heats run of three straight finals appearances is equally impressive. LeBron is still building his resume. He is in the prime of his career. We don't know what the future holds and how many titles or league MVP's he'll win. Will he ever be on par with Jordan? Prob. not. As I said, MJ is considered one of the top 3 players to ever play...Your talking about an iconic (think Ruth, Gretzky, Brown, etc.) player. LeBron will end up being considered an all time great; he just may not be an all time "iconic" great like MJ.

-- Modified on 6/19/2013 2:36:45 PM

... and will always be the fodder for bar room (web board?) debates, in perpetuity.

The NBA was, is, and always will be filled with freak physical specimens, whose athletic abilities shine.  We saw Chamberlain and Russell dominate "small guys" due to their size and prowess; we saw Dr. J take playing "above the rim" to an artistic level; we saw 6'-9" Magic Johnson run the floor and facilitate "team" dominance; and we saw MJ (a shooting guard) have the innate ability to single handedly take any game over by sheer will on both ends of the court equally.

 
So ... before we can answer the question of "Where does/will LeBron rank?", another more important question must be asked, debated, and answered.  For me, that question is this:

"How has LBJ revolutionized the game of basketball?

I like that angle...   What DID LBJ change about the game?  The only thing I can think of is that he is more "physical" and seeks out or maybe draws more contact than less physically imposing players.  Shaq was similar although he wasn't nearly as athletic as LBJ.  

Sort of supports what I and others are saying.  LBJ and MJ are not the same...no comparisons please.  I'm just tired of the media constantly shoving MJ comparisons in our face anytime a good player comes along.  

With respect to the 'contact' element that LBJ brings, I don't think it makes basketball better. I find it a bit ironic that the one team sport in our country that was designed with contact in mind (football) is actively seeking to remove some of the more violent occurrences.  On the other hand, sports like basketball and soccer...which weren't originally "contact sports" (more on this in a minute)...have become sports where contact is expected, used, and an integral part of the game.  

Now...what I mean by "contact sport".  Of course we expect soccer and basketball players to contact each other in the run of play...but...there is not a "SPECIFIC" design in either game where you are called to contact another player.  Therefore, the contact is meant to be incidental.  Both games have provisions to penalize excessive contact.  But...both games now suffer from highly subjective calls from referees.

I cringe when I hear feckless journalists say things like "the referees let the players decide that game".  Exhibit A, chris bosch block on danny greeen at the end of the game.  For the other 98% of the game...that would have been called a foul and only the most homer heat fan would have complained.  But, because it happened with seconds on the clock, the referees swallowed their whistles and let the "players decide the game".  What a joke. And it happens in almost EVERY close basketball game at the NBA and NCAA level.

So...what we have is a couple of sports (soccer, basketball) in the US that are bordering on unwatchable for people like me.  I can't stand how subjective and inconsistent the officiating is.  It drives me crazy!!!

Football on the other hand...was designed with contact in mind; blocking, tackling, etc.  The intent was for players to hit each other.   But, because sports science has evolved so far...we're needing to pull some contact out for player safety and post-sport health.

who overdramatize everything.

They constantly try to compare athletes against a standard  that cant be duplicated.  

For ex. the Yankees had an unfair advantage for years which is why they have so many WS titles. so if a team doesnt achieve the same the yare "not as good" which is bogus.

I turn the volume down on pregame shows of every sport unless it's ex-players talking.

I haven't.

you don't have to play in the nba to see that LeBron and Michael are not even the same type of player. its like comparing barry sanders to jerry rice. DIFFERENT POSITIONS AND DIFFERENT GAMES. and if you think barkley comes off as smart....well sir, your IQ must be TURRABULL.

I guess you're right . I'll stick with the HOF'er .

didn't barkley also say the pacers would beat Miami? glad that worked so well for the HOFer.
he is just a LeBron/heat hater...funny thing is....HE WAS ONCE IN A BIG 3 IN HOUSTON WITH HAKEEM AND DREXLER. LeBron is already a better player 10 years in than barkley ever was. and he has 2 more rings,...the one thing anyone could ever say was LeBron couldn't win the big one...but he has 2 years in a row now, including making game 7 of the nba finals his bitch last night.  

once again, im not saying LeBron is better than Jordan, im just saying he isn't the style of player as Jordan so the comparisons don't make sense. but then the idiots just don't seem to read that part.  

LeBron james, at under 30 years old, is already a top 15 all time nba player. if he isn't, someone please name 15 better. i'll wait. but notice, ONCE AGAIN I DID NOT SAY HE WAS BETTER THAN JORDAN.