Belichick's disciples do not do so well away from his mentoring.

I am certainly not touting the coaching genius of Eric Mangini. He has been a head coach for five seasons (with two teams) and has been to the playoffs only once. Not good. Moreover, although better now, he still is not great in dealing with the media nor at times his own players. Couple that with the fact that Holmgren did not hire him (he inherited him from the previous regime) and he is not in the Holmgrem mold of coaching philosophy (i.e. West Coast, Bill Walsh mold) its not surprising.  

But lets look at Bill Belicheck. He was the Browns head coach for five years (1991-1995). He compiled a 36-44 record, leading the Browns to one playoff appearance. He was awful in Cleveland as his teams were void of top tier talent. Mangini's five year record with the Jets/Brows? 33-47. Virtually the same. Belicheck was thought of as an awful hire by the Pats....it looks ridiculous to say that now. The Patriots were able to build through the draft (and yes, Belicheck deserves ALOT of credit for his talent evaluation) and obviously having Tom Brady develop into A HOF QB has solidified the Pats place as an elite franchise.

Belicheck is a brilliant football mind, and I certainly don't forsee Mangini approaching his knowledge. But at the end of the day coaches need to have talented players,. I watched the game yesterday. The Browns seriously lack skilled players on either side of the ball.  Magini didn't have a chance to succeed in Cleveland. He will prob. will re-surface in a year as a coordinator...however, with two head coaching failures on his resume, it will be hard to sell him to a fan base as a teans' new head coach.

But you are right; if you throw in the coaching tenure of McDaniels, Crennel, Weis with Mangini it does not look good for the Belicheck disciples!

-- Modified on 1/3/2011 4:17:47 AM

Seems to me that there was a season not so long ago (coached by BB) that a kid from the bench, (who's now a starter somewhere I'm pretty sure) who hadn't thrown a pass since HIGH SCHOOL, came in and won 11 games!
Although they didn't go to the playoffs that year, I'd say that's damn successful in a very short time!
That record would win a lot of divisions!
And let's not forget how TB got his start: 6th round pick, 3rd in the depth chart when Drew Bledsoe went down.

-- Modified on 1/3/2011 1:32:02 PM

which have to work really well together before a head coach is successful. To say Belichick couldn't win without Brady is maybe fair? But maybe Belichick would get another talented QB if Brady left.

And another thing, how many quarterback coach combinations can you think of like; Chuck Noll/Bradshaw, Landry/Starbuck, Stram/Dawson, Shula/Marino, Shanahan/Elway. Who makes who successful I'm not sure. I thinks it's more the organization, Coach/Quarterback and just enough talent around to field a completive team.

After then it's in the hands of the players, football gods, injuries and luck. The Pittsburg Steelers have over the years had a good organization, drafted decent talent, hired a good coach and let him coach, bribed the football gods and used their own ref's when possible. LOL

There are a few other organization that do a good job, New England, Dallas in the old days, Green Bay and sometimes the Vikings, Kansas City is so so.

"But you are right; if you throw in the coaching tenure of McDaniels, Crennel, Weis with Mangini it does not look good for the Belicheck disciples!"

Maybe only one man can coach the "Belicheck Way" and that's Belicheck. I think Belicheck makes decissions based on the moving parts in his world and those around him see the moves but maybe they don't understand why. Belicheck is not exactly an open, forthcoming guy.

Yes, I remember the season. 2008 (BTW, the Steelers won the Super Bowl!) Brady was injured in the first game. Matt Cassel replaced him (now the starter on the Chiefs) and led the Pats to a solid season. Belicheck did a great coaching job.

But when I compared Mangini and Belicheck it was to make the point that they had the same won/loss record during their first five seasons at the helm...when neither man had very talented rosters. By 2008, the Patriot machine was well in place. Yes, Brady was hurt, but the 2008 Patriots HAD PLENTY OF TALENT in place (they just came off of a 18-1 season the year before, loosing to the Giants in the Super Bowl). So yes Belicheck had a successful 2008 season with Cassel at the helm, but the roster was not void of talent ( like say this current edition of the Cleveland Browns).

You're not going to have any continuity with that kind of turnover. While Mangini probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place, 2 years is not long enough to give anyone a chance, especially when the 2nd year is pretty much a lame-duck year.


-- Modified on 1/3/2011 3:56:15 PM

your topic: 'Belicheck couldn't win without Brady....'
Very untrue statement (as proven by Matt Cassel) for many of the reasons you stated.
This current team (of the hooded emperors) is LOADED with undrafted, team-first talent (as was on display yesterday).

You can take a 15 yr old kid and give him a NFL team, then face that against E.M. and a high school team and I'll bet you he has a worse time trying to get a win the he eve did in the NFL. NFL caliber talent is a lot closer together then people might think. That's where the coaching staff and the training come in. But ultimately its up to the players to execute the plays given. If they don't do it right. Then loses occur.

You can have all the great talent in the world, but if the players can not perform on the field, then no head coach can get wins consistently. Take for instance, my beloved Cowboys. All that talent was squandered do to a lack of self discipline, not because of a coach. Wade got himself fired. Then once Jason Garrett took over the reins of the organization, things turned around. Now not to play "Putty Party" here but, if you take the second half record of the season for the Cowboys and double it. That's a 12-4 record for the boys, division win and a possible first round bye. So the question of weather or not E.M. is a good coach or not seems slightly redundant.

But what ever his status is for the moment. Passing him off as a long shot for a head coaching job in the near future may be premature. Let's not forget the hundreds of coaches over the years whom all have had winning records but no playoff wins or SuperBowl wins. Granted moat of them are College coaches, but still. E.M. may end up in a better spot then most would consider or conceive. There are plenty of jobs out there that he could be up for next season or somewhere down the road. Jacksonville or Houston is a very likely place considering both coaches currently are in the final yrs of their contracts and both teams have good talent.

But player and coaches alike stay employed when they perform and give their best. Most fans would be happy with a crappy team that makes it to the playoffs every year. Just ask Saints fans. Their team never made it to a playoff before last year and won everything through luck and good play. This year they fell short but still had a chance. As a Cowboys fan who's seen the boys in the playoffs for many years, these last few years of them not being in the playoffs has been torcher. But regardless. E.M. still has many years to go to prove himself as an elite coach in the NFL just as Belicheck did. All it takes is the right team, system and players and next thing you know. He builds the next NFL Dynasty.

So have no fear. E.M. will be fine and this will only be a temporary setback for his future. But I do wish him luck in his future endeavours and hopefully they involved a lot of wins and rings.

NewHobbyGuy12
aka Ja