Dear Readers,

Having read some recent posts concerning providers with "hidden
charges" I would add a few comments.  Certainly women who charge more once the session begins should be exposed as rip-offs, or at least highly questionable.  I think everyone would agree that providers who advertise a certain fee, but then ask for "tips" for additional services are to be avoided.

However, I have noticed many hobbyists coming down hard on their
fellow hobbyists for falling prey to this dubious practice, chastising them for following their "little heads" too much, blaming them for the bad experience, suggesting they should have walked, rather than paying more.  This is where I have to disagree.  Hindsight is 20/20, and it's easy to be a monday morning hobbyist.  The hobbyist who walks into a session with no intel is doing everyone a huge favor by taking one for the team, and should be applauded.  These are our most valuable reviews.

Keep in mind that these providers always ask for the advertised fee upfront.  This is a common practice, even with honest providers.  Sure, it's better if a provider never mentions business, and you just leave the envelope, but remember, there are rip-off clients too, and many providers are rightfully cautious. So for those who think you should bail on a session simply because she asks for the money first, be prepared to walk out of a lot of sessions, and what does anyone learn then? Icks-nay.

But back to the hidden charge provider, once the fee leaves the hobbyist's hand, it's a sunk cost.  That money is gone, sayonara, and up to that point, depending on how the provider is working it, the hobbyist may have gotten nothing in return. (perhaps a BJ, dance, massage or strip show).  At this juncture, the hobbyist has a choice.  Pay more money for more service, try to get a refund, or have her leave.

The decision is not as clearcut as the armchair hobbyists would have it.  Few want to walk away, especially if they've gotten nothing, or just a dance.  Few want to create a situation and demand a refund, as they know full well that prostitution is illegal, and may have already received some services, or given out personal information for screening.  Safety could easily become an issue.  It's a tough, tough spot, a lose/lose situation, and for those who have been there, it's an ugly feeling.  Often, biting the bullet and paying more money may be the best alternative.  Pay the money, finish the session, lick your wounds, regroup, and hit the boards with an informative review.

So kudos and many thanks to the men who have gone into a session with little or no information and had your pants pulled down by a provider who hit you with hidden charges, dance-and-dashed you, or "Bubba" came out of the closet with a billy-club.  Your reviews are made in the true spirit of these boards, by sharing information to help others avoid your fate.  May our reviews repay you in due time.  You've got the biggest balls of them all.

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Some balls are held for charity
and some for fancy dress
but when they're held for pleasure
they're the balls that I like best

iceman

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Word of advice, those that decide to begin negotiations in person for sexual activities subject themselves to possible arrest.
Not a good plan, in the future I would turn around and walk out the door when either a provider or a hobbyist starts that sort of conversation. I personally never allow any form of money discussion and will not accept $$$ for a tip afterwards - just in case I want to play with the client after a paid session is over.

Sorry to hear it was made to feel like you were at a negoiating table.

Be Safe and Be Bad.

Mistress Porsche'

Dear Mistress Porsche and Readers,

Great point, thanks for bringing it up.  To clarify, my post wasn't to condone "paying more" to a hidden charge provider, or to ever enter into price negotiations.  

I agree, from a sting perspsective, money should never be mentioned by either party ever, period.  My point was simply to note that once a hobbyist is stuck in the unfortunate position of being asked for more money for more services, it's more difficult to "walk" than many would have it.  Depending on the scenario, paying can seem like an appropriate (if not ideal) choice, mid-session "hidden charges" in particular.

IMHO the men who fall victim to this should not be blamed, or slammed. Whether we agree on their decision to walk or pay, the fact is they had the balls to review, saving us all from a similar predicament.  (A few Lisa Foxx reviews come to mind)

My feelings on paying in general are as follows: I would suggest bringing the fee in an envelope, and leave it somewhere conspicuous for the provider to pick up as she leaves (outcall) or as you leave (incall). Never verbally mention money (audio recordings), and it's best not to pull bills out of your wallet either (video recordings). The post-session "envelope" is standard, acceptable procedure for the majority of experienced, honest providers.  

If she asks to "take care of business" first, and she is a totally unknown, unreviewed provider, this should serve as a major red flag.  Think very carefully about whether you want to go through with the session.  By paying an unknown provider upfront, or engaging in open discussions about money, your LE risk jumps significantly, as does your risk of being ripped-off.  

Listen to your gut (it's all you have to go on at this point): Does she have a site of her own? Did she screen you at all? Is she from an agency that is reputable?  Does she have a driver? Did contacting her seem weird or strained?  Does her attitude in person seem bitchy or extremely nervous?  Does the incall location seem odd (e.g. no bed, or just a "throne").  If it doesn't feel right, politely decline, and walk.  Sure, you may have missed a great provider (doubtful), who perhaps is inexperienced, and doesn't know the ropes, but you may have avoided getting ripped-off, or worse, busted.  Remember, there will be other days, and other providers.

If no one else is available as a short-notice alternate, you can always take Candy Cotton up on her $5.95 special.  It's a stop at Blue Video for one of her tapes, and a bottle of hand-lotion from Rite-aid.

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Workin' all day for the boss man WHOA!
Workin for the company WHOA YEAH!
Bettin' on the dice I'm tossin' WHOA!
I'm gonna' have a fantasy WHOA YEAH!

iceman

Oh for the record (this is honestly and you can verify with my reviewers/references) there is no amount of money you could pay me to have sex with you.  The session you pay for is in the exploration of submission.  But, there are many times I really get in to the client and find myself wanting to play after the session and that is on my time and my dime (meaning I am losing time with another client for a paid session).  Below is what my emails state to clients:

For legality reasons: Session fees are for training in the art of submission. Prostitution is illegal and fees are not for the solicitation of sex. After the paid session is over if/any sexual activity takes place is on my personal and not professional time (meaning I DO WANT YOU and WANT TO PLAY, so you can be assured I AM NOT FAKING IT).

I always recommend at least and hour and ½ and although most sessions run over 2+ hours I do not charge above the initial pre-agreed upon fee. (EVER!)  I do not accept tips in the form of money afterwards due to the fact if I do enjoy play with a client after a paid session has ended, accepting money after that point would be prostitution.  

Your Fee is $XXX.XXX for xxxx...

Fee is in cash placed in an envelope and is due upon entry to my place, please place immediately on the kitchen counter as you enter and leave it at that. I do not discuss rates or fees in person and should a client engage in that form of conversation the session is ended.

Anyway - my two cents....

And my heart goes out to those of you that had to face negotiations...

PLEASE CHANGE MY CONTACT INFO FROM
THIS ACCOUNT TO [email protected]

-- Be Safe and Be Bad,--
Mistress "Domitrix Porsche'
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Your Master is your Servant...
"Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. I loathe the uneducated mass and keep them away from me. Horace"
Cell:  425-246-4091

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http://www.calsnet.com/missporsche

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I posted something to that affect on another bd.

However, unlike Mistress Porsche, I've always wondered whether the practice of demanding tips for additional (explicitly sexual) services really exposes the provider to much additional legal risk.  After all if the provider is paid and then provides some sexual service, even if not explicitly bargained for, a judge or jury is not going to find a defense of "mutual attraction" very credible, especially when the cop lies about what the provider said in the first place.

Dear Mr. C,

From what I understand, your assumption is correct.  The biggest LE risk (for provider or client) is a pre-session discussion of money.  When LE operates stings, they usually bust in right after the money is handed over, or the verbal agreement of sex for money is made, but before the session happens.  This is because LE can't receive (or give) tricks, by law.  So once services begin, usually both parties can rest assured that they are not dealing with LE, even if money is explicitly discussed afterwards.

Having said that, in Orange county, and other areas with extreme vice heat on the indoor scene, I have heard stories of paid "decoy" johns (non-LE) who receive services before a sting is made, or bad cops who themselves receive services to make the session seem legitimate. You're right, I doubt these sleazeball tactics hold much water in court.  However, LE knows that the arrest itself, whether or not anything sticks, does the damage via public exposure (explanations to SOs, family, work etc.) legal fees and time spent.  More than anything, stings are designed to harrass and humiliate.

While LE risk for a provider may not completely dissapear once services begin, I think it's safe to say that the hobbyist's LE risk does. I have yet to hear of a "decoy" hooker, (LE or non-LE, street or indoor) who provides some services to a john just to bust him.  Once they start asking female cops to turn tricks as bait for stings...well, that might get interesting.  We can start reviewing LE! LOL.

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Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do?

iceman

Portland regularly conducts sting operations with female cops posing as street hookers. Once the deal is made (no services have to be performed) you are busted.

... but the question remains, has anyone ever heard of a decoy hooker (LE or otherwise) who performed sex acts (allowed breasts to be fondled, gave BJ) as bait before a bust was made?  

I have yet to hear of this, so I maintain that once services begin, the hobbyist can rest assured that the provider is not LE, regardless of whether money is discussed at any point after.  So it's pre-services money transactions and/or discussions that are verboten for hobbyists.

hititandsplititandlickitandquitit

iceman