I do agree with you that this has been the most active thread here in a VERY long time.
I also understand your point and do agree that we would ALL love to compensate at lower rates. However, I tend to agree with Just Thinking's last response to you.
Guys, paying more than $200 for an hour of companionship is crazy!! Us guys need to get these "escorts" to lower their prices. How? By not giving them any business. Think about it, how many of you men out there are making $200-300 bucks an hour? I'm sure a select few maybe, but most are not. GFE service, and a note to you ladies out there, GFE means this: Kissing (DFK), BBBJ, and allowing oral to be performed on you. If you don't allow these 3, quit advertising you're GFE, because you're not. GFE service should be no more than $200 for an hour, no more than $150 for half an hour. If you choose to see a lady that doesn't provide GFE service, it should be no more than $150 for a full hour, and no more than $100 for half an hour. Let's work together guys, quit paying these outrageous prices, check reviews so you don't keep a pimped ROB in business.
The truth is that the providers tend to stratify along quality of service levels, and within bands of supply and demand. A truly astounding provider ... just do a review list by "Performance" with total reviews greater than "6" for instance and you'll see the top-tier ... can command a price point that is higher than the rest.
The market rewards hard work, customer focus, and high value - and it punishes laziness, selfishness, and greed.
I'd love for one of my ATF's (Natasha or Porscha) to be $200 for an hour in the clouds. The reality of the situation is that I'm probably glad they're not, as they'd be cratered with business from low-lifes trying to save a buck. Not inferring that my fellow hobbyists are low-lifes, but you know what I mean. Those looking for quick-pops for low-dollars can find that all over town without clogging up the schedules of my favorites.
Pricing is dictated by the market. There are lots of up-and-cummers out there willing to price low to win new business. The ones that provide an astounding value will be able to raise their rates, lower their volume, and stay in business for the long haul via their loyal client base that can afford to up-price with them.
I'll pay $400+ for someone like Natasha or Porscha or Trin_Naughty or the other top-ranked/higher-priced/lower-volume ladies that I know and love. I can't do it as often, but a massively fulfilling hour with one of them where I walk away feeling like I'm on a cloud, is better than two visits where I'm rushed and made to feel like a K-Mart customer. I've snuck "off-brand" a couple of times lately to investigate some lower prices. The experience was very unfulfilling.
The market will determine the price ... and the ladies that have found a way to transition their customers from "satisfied" to "loyal" - will have cracked the code. Brand loyalty is a powerful market weapon, and while you'd love to get these high-end ladies at a low-end price, guys like me willing to pay a premium for top-tier service will probably continue to shatter your dream.
Rallying to unionize in support of lower prices is a tough row to hoe, but if you are able to fight time-honored market dynamics, then God Bless You !!!
One thing we might want to do is to publicly acknowledge and get behind lower priced providers that deliver higher-value services. Where someone has an exceptional experience with a value-priced provider, they should get on this board and tell the story ... driving business to that provider and setting an example for the other ladies about how to win new business and build a loyal customer base.
The only problem will be that you'll soon see her prices going.
Supply and demand my friend ... supply and demand.
As suggested, my contribution to acknowledgment of value (lower cost compared to market) GFE providers in Sacramento area: Sweet Isabella; Larae (very hot MILF)
Ladies working the bay area do not compare to those in the east and midwest as far as GFE delivery is concerned. You mention a BBBJ to a lady here and she insulted and starts dribbling off drivel about how totally unsafe it is and she would never, ever consider doing it, even with a boyfriend. Some that do not give BBBJ will allow themself to be eaten, go figure. DFK and even LFK is off the table for virtually all of them. One solution would be to invite ladies from the east and midwest to tour the bay area on a constant basis, you would not pay anymore and your money will be well spent. If it was not for a few visitors from Canada, I would go nuts trying to hook up with a young, attractive GFE providers.
Excatly JT. There's been a couple of threads lately about this topic. It's truly amazing - a GFE in the Bay Area is actually pretty rare, although there are a few. But you go to LA, Vegas or the East Coast and DFK, BBBJ, BBHJ, DATY, etc. is offerred by all the ladies. It's such a clear trend and so confusing. Really ironic. Really.
But I know when I'm in NYC, I never even bother to ask about whether a girl is GFE. It's just commonly accepted that bareback everything (except intercourse) is the standard session. But the Bay Area ladies seem to have a dozen excuses for this bizarre counter-trend and then charge the same rates you find in other cities.
Go figure.
I've basically stopped hobbying in the BA, just do it when I'm out of town. It's a much better way to spend my money.
I think "Unprotected Service" (UPS ) is a better term to use than GFE since GFE is too subjective given then word "experience" is part of the acronym.
While I can certainly understand the desire for unprotected service, I also understand the desire for the ladies to want to protect themselves in addition to them NOT being fully at ease with having unprotected intimate contact with me. I sometimes wonder how the ladies can have intimate contact with any of the clients they see but maybe that's because I've never been a provider.
Again, I don't think finding unprotected service offering providers in the Bay Area are all that difficult to find but since I don't explicitly seek that I might not have a good frame of reference or basis for my position.
www.eroticgina.com I read on the other board that she is visiting the SFO area 3/7-3/18 Based on her reviews linked on her site she is 100% GFE Just my 2 cents
Some people are not as focused on cost as others, because some people realize that there are many price points and all a person has to do is look for one that suits. If a person gets satisfying GFE at $350, so be it, the same goes for those that can find it at $200.
Read earlier in the thread and you'll see that I support the free-market pricing scheme. I'm just pointing out that the thread is problem-solving in nature, and I was floating a few ideas that work for everyone.
I agree with all three of the hypothesis:
(1) A lot of Bay Area GFE's - aren't! (2) The top-tier true performers are expensive. (3) They are entitled to the pricing the market will bear.
So far, the idea of proactively encouraging top-tier GFE-providers from small markets to come here with their pricing maintained - seems to be one way.
I've made contact with true GFE's in three low-price markets and am working to get them to SF. So far, the response has been great.
If we can pull off a big-time GFE with 9's and 10's across the board from a low-price market to come to SF and maintain her rates, that's good, right?
only charging $350/Hour as per her post on the other board. This thread was also about a GFE experience that is why Iwas recommending www.eroticgina.com. Peace Out
Soft, slow, romantic. What you get in the Bay Area is just a lot of strenuous tongue-wrestling with the lips actually part way apart, LOL! as if that were kissing.
You're talking about a luxury, not a necessity. If you can't afford the rate, why not just pass on seeing that provider? I can understand just *dying* to be with some hot looking provider who might provide excellent service (or whatever) but why does *your* intense desire to see her mean she has to offer herself up to you at *your* rates?
I can definitely understand your position as there are a few providers I was planning on seeing this year that I won't see now since they bumped their rates in January. That is completely their prerogative and if that means I'll miss out on their experience, so be it. My life isn't going to be drastically impacted by missing out on an experience that is limited in duration.
I've met some great ladies over the years and have started some friendships with them. These friendships evolved because of our interactions (electronically via e-mail or online chatting, etc) and conversations *outside* of the session and mostly outside of the bedroom completely.
Do you also feel Ferrari should reduce the price of the F355 because you're dying to own a vehicle as magnificent as this?
Lastly, what qualifies you or any other client to dictate what any provider should charge for services? Any given client is certainly qualified to dictate what *they* are willing to pay and I've got no issue with that at all.
I am constantly amazed by the hobbyists that complain about prices that good escorts charge. There is a price level for everyone. I for one prefer meeting a 100% GFE that charge appropriately and keeps her daily or weekly volume low. I wonder how the guys that want low prices, even from good providers, behave if their employers ever attempt to conspire to drive down their salary. All of us know the answer to that one, they cry out loud and run to their politicians to have the Pols save their standard of living. The issue of non GFE providers clogging up erotic sites is another matter. I agree with anyone that wants to boycot those wannabes. The quicker they leave the scene, the better for all.
if they ladies want to raise rates, by all means - raise'm. i'll take my chances at paying the higher rates, since they take risks in the work they do. if i really want to see her than i'll pay for it. at least it will somewhat control your spending money (hmm? buy that $$$$$$$ plasma screen, or $$$$$$$ VIP visit)...
but primarily they do what they do to have fun. and that's all this should be. hobbist complain that it's too business-like? maybe the problem is you? maybe you made it too business-like making demands of what they are suppose to do and not do.
you, as a hobbist, are respondsible to do your research before hand...if you don't, and you get a back experience - you're SOL.
I do agree with you on the first point but not necessarily on the second.
It's really hard to know the motivations for any given provider to work as a provider. There's the "fantasy" aspect of this as well as the business aspect and the emotional aspect which can make things awkward or complicated but doesn't always.
Some providers work as providers because they sincerely and truly enjoy it. Great. Some do it because of the income. Some do it as a result of thinking they can't support themselves any other way. Some do it just on the side and some do it as their sole occupation. Some who are in it primarily for the income are masters at "fantasy fulfillment" so they can make us think they "enjoy their work". I dare not try to figure out or understand *why* any given provider works as a provider since that doesn't really fit into the equation. I think we all have the potential for the best experiences if we, as clients, enjoy the moments we share with the ladies we choose to see and leave it at that.
You make an excellent point about how we, the clients, have a significant impact on how a session will go with a provider. I think we sometimes forget OUR involvement in how a session can go and I can't believe some of the stories I've heard from providers about some of the clients they see.
I ran a few quick statistics with results that are not unexpected. Search criteria was SF Escorts with Category = "Escort", Sex = "Yes" and Reviews > "6".
When ranked by Performance, the Top 12 have the following prices: Low: 200 (but everyone else was 350+) High: 500 Average: 404
When ranked by Appearance, the Top 12 have the following prices: Low: 300 High: 550 Average: 437
There were 7 of the 12 that were represented in both groups.
As you can predict, when sorted by "Average", the top 9 in each list is represented with an average hourly rate of 419.
Gee, what a SHOCK - beauty, quality service, and consistency command a higher price in a free market where providers can price at the level the market will bear.
A quick poke at other populated geographies shows that this is generally higher, but not a great deal higher. Heavy population centers like DC, LA, Chicago, Boston, etc. show averages that are about $50 less, give or take a little.
I really like the idea floated earlier where we band together and encourage the top providers from smaller markets to travel to SF and provide top-tier services at small-market rates.
I'll do a quick analysis on the smaller markets, and make a few targeted invitations and then report back to the "lurkers" on this board.
Watch for my post where I confirm that a small-market "hottie" is headed to SF. We need to make sure she's nicely booked.
"I really like the idea floated earlier where we band together and encourage the top providers from smaller markets to travel to SF and provide top-tier services at small-market rates."
I don't think this would happen. To be honest, a number of ladies don't even think of visiting the S.F. Bay Area due to us, the clients. They think we're cheap and too flaky.
Of course, there are providers who DO visit and have great trips but I've heard from a number of ladies who won't even bother visiting for the reasons I mentioned above.
I think if we fix that, we'll attract more visitors to the Bay Area.
I've already made contact with some highly-rated, GFE-assured, value-priced, super-stars from some lower-cost geographies, and am talking to them about a "semi-sponsored" trip to the Bay Area with a personal assurance that the bookings will cover the trip costs and provide good positive margins.
A couple are even chatting about having me sponsor their trip by swapping core expenses (hotel & airfare) in exchange for services. That will at least guarantee an expense-based break-even.
If I stick my dick-in-the-drawer on this one, you guys had better come through and help me fill out the schedule !!!
Early to mid March will be best for me. I will help you with some of the sponsored expenses, as long as my share is reasonable. I hope that once the ladies see how lucrative this region can be, they will come back o their own. Let's go for it and clean this area up, tired of pretty girls that want to do as little as possible for the big money that they ask for. I do not mind paying the money, as long as the service is there.
LOL, that's an interesting description of the risk you're taking.
*Of course* if you offer to help them cover travel expenses they would be more open minded to visiting the area. I've talked with a couple of providers who came out here on the dime of a long duration session booking client and who wanted to take some extra calls and they expressed not "worrying" about lack of interest of reliability of clients since they were out here _anyway_.
If we, the clientele in the Bay Area, did a better job of representing ourselves as good, quality clients, the providers would come and "shower" us with their great services since quality clientele helps their end of this biz go much more smoothly.
I'm from Seattle, smaller market and I've been wanting to visit SF for sometime now. And when I posted on TER & SF, I received many negative emails from SF gentlemen, stating how there were many asian ladies with cheaper rates and how they have many ATF ladies there. It was almost like a threat, as if they were protecting their ATF from this competitive market. I personally think there's enough for everybody and no need to get that Hasty. I am well reputable provider with great reviews and that was the last thing I expected. http://theeroticreview.com/link/link.asp?ID=21815
That put a Bad taste in my mouth and almost too afraid to post again. And there were few nice gentlemen, who welcomed me, Thank you for those of you! =)
Your performance and appearance scores were excellent. Your rates are not outrageous given that the typical lady charges $300 per hour in this region and give almost nothing at all. Please post when you are ready to visit, do the initial post a couple to three weeks ahead of the visit, I for one want to book you.
I was reading the NYC boards during your visit there, the guys that were fortunate enough to book you raved about their visits. I also stumbled onto the Phoenix board late last night, the guys there were glad to see you back from your tour. Look for my PM under my username.
The core issue to this thread was "Cost". The idea was to encourage lower-cost providers from small-market areas to bring their lower rates and "real" GFE services to the Bay Area, in exchange for an organized commitment to fill up their schedules with quality customers.
The ladies jumping into this thread are goregous and well-reviewed. They're also just as expensive as the top-tier, well-reviewed, real-GFE providers that are well-known in the Bay Area.
What we WANT is one of these ladies to show up and book a full-service toe-curling GFE hour for $250, and give us all a treat.
An out-of-the-area superstar coming here for $400/hr doesn't impress me. Do it for $250, and I'll book sessions on Monday, Wednesday, and two hours on Friday.
My ATF's and preferences are well-known, and I'm willing to pay top-dollar for high-quality. I'm highly motivated to use my hobby dollars on my local ATF's, as they are wonderful and have never let me down. To go "off-menu", I need some motivation. A top-tier provider coming to the bay area at an business-building rate would be that motivation.
I'm also not stupid enough to miss the flip-side of that argument. If you can fill half of your schedule for $450 vs. all of your schedule at $200 - you make more money and work fewer hours. For the DDG blonde and stunningly beautiful asian ladies that responsed, it simply doesn't make sense for them to come here at a lower rate when they can come here at a higher rate and make more money (or simply stay home and make more money).
How do we solve this conundrum?
Easy answer - by finding ladies with a low base-rate, and encouraging them into SF at an equivalent rate and an assurance of a full schedule.
I'm talking about ladies like the link I've identified below (Jenifur), that are 9's and 10's across the board in markets like San Antonio, TX who average $200 to $250.
The bottom line is that assuming equivalent services, $400 in NY coming to SF for $450 isn't interesting. $200 in San Antonio coming to SF for $250 is VERY interesting.
Am I making any sense here? Did we get off-topic or am I dreaming?
This argument isn't about premium-priced GFE's booking tours to SF. It's an attempt to lure similar quality from markets that allow lower rates.
The fact of the matter is, to put it bluntly, some guys WOULD NOT WANT to see a woman that works for $200 per hour, regardless of her scores. Those gents have their reasons, some correct, some wrong. You should focus on having an abundant supply of GFEs in the area, then the pretenders will find some other line of work and there will be enough money floating around for all good providers, whether they be local or travelling. I am sure that the higher priced (by your estimate), superstar travelling GFEs will take care of their own expenses if they confirm enough bookings. I am always amazed by guys like you that think they speak for everyone. I apologize to anyone that was offended if I agreed with anything you posted earlier, I obviously did not read between the lines. Everytime that you or someone like you post attacking the ad of a provider that you think is too high priced (by your estimate, I must add), men that prefer consistent quality service over saving an insignificant number of dollars should shut you up.
I'm sorry. I obviously did a lousy job explaining my position.
I'm happy to pay the higher rates for the true Bay Area GFE's, and can certainly afford them. I was responding with some ideas to those looking for lower rates and similar services, with what I thought was a win-win idea for both the hobbyists and the out-of-market providers.
If I want to see Jenifur in San Antonio, I can fly there and see her. Not everyone has that ability. Many would love to see one of the high-end GFE's, but cannot afford to do so. That doesn't make them "low-end", "sleaze-bags", or "ill-kept" ... it just means they don't have as much $$$.
Hard to imagine how getting a top-tier, DDG, GFE from a small market to tour the Bay Area for $250 or less would be a "bad" thing. That's all I was suggesting.
I don't speak for everyone, although those with non-status-quo ideas often are accused of that.
One thing is for sure ... this has been the most interesting, lively, and participatory thread this board has seen in a long time.
If that is the only outcome, then it was a good one.
Again, I apologize for any offense inflicted, or for any perspective that I was speaking on yours or anyone else's behalf.
I'll back out now.
(But a trip to San Antonio next weekend does sound fun.)
I do agree with you that this has been the most active thread here in a VERY long time.
I also understand your point and do agree that we would ALL love to compensate at lower rates. However, I tend to agree with Just Thinking's last response to you.
There are good deals and good service. A lot of guys don't know where to shop or do the homework. I never pay more than 160. I average about 140 per session. The deals and good girls are out there you just have to know where.
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