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Re: I have no data
marincat 1056 reads
posted

I would have to agree with you on this.....

MysteryAdmin1592 reads

I know with the sluggish economy many, myself included, have reduced our participation in "the hobby" to varying degrees.  Outside of that, how has the scene changed, in your opinion?

There seems to be a LOT more providers in the area, which makes the area more competitive I think.

Rates have been adjusted, in part due to the economy, but has there been significant changes in service offerings and quality of service provided as well?  I don't see enough providers these days to be able to comment on this much and I'm not really meeting new people much these days.

Also, how has the San Francisco Bay Area been for the visiting ladies?  Ladies from outside the area still come here but how has the scene changed, if at all, for visiting ladies (other than economic sluggishness)?  Have the clients changed much?  That sort of thing.  Or, is it mainly the economy that is impacted your business, as a visitor to the area?

Peace...

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jblmansf1311 reads

However, I think the Bay Area is still very disappointing with respect to stunning looking providers who offer GFE.  There are some solid GFE independents here.  But it's hard to find 9s & 10s in looks combined with complete GFE performance.

LA, South Florida and NYC blow SF away in this aspect of the hobby scene and that is why I prefer to stick with visiting providers from these locales who have good reviews.  It's so disappointing to see hot local gals state they are Non-GFE or "safe GFE" which IMHO is NOT GFE.

I don't know why women in LA who provide full-blown GFE don't come down with a plethora of STDs if it's so "dangerous."  Rather I think it's the attitude of the girls in other cities versus the attitudes of gals in the Bay Area and what they can get away with.    In a word the local SF hobby scene sucks with respect to local providers.  Stick with visitors (true visitors & not gals who are from here & claim they're visiting) with good reviews and you'll be happier.

But to answer your question, there seems to be a big increase amongst the "low end" of the donation scale with women desperate for income, which to me is quite sad.  But even here many are non-GFE.  I probably would not partake in this segment of the hobby scene, but even in this segment the SF Bay doctrine that GFE is a no-no amongst providers is still ingrained.

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MysteryAdmin1396 reads

Thanks for your candid response.  :)

Posted By: jblmansf
I don't know why women in LA who provide full-blown GFE don't come down with a plethora of STDs if it's so "dangerous."  Rather I think it's the attitude of the girls in other cities versus the attitudes of gals in the Bay Area and what they can get away with.    In a word the local SF hobby scene sucks with respect to local providers.  Stick with visitors (true visitors & not gals who are from here & claim they're visiting) with good reviews and you'll be happier.
How can you know for sure whether providers offering more unprotected services actually aren't having more issues with STDs than you think?  I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just asking the question.

Also, I find your comment about the "attitude" of the providers in other cities vs local providers interesting.  Are you saying the visiting providers are more "open" or "accommodating" than local providers, in your opinion?

Again,  I'm not picking a fight, just asking the questions.  :)

Thanks!

Peace...

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jblmansf2518 reads

but from anectodal evidence, seeing providers from LA on a fairly regular basis and getting to know them and looking at the LA boards, I have not heard about providers having to stay away from the biz due to having a STD.  There would be much more chatter about that IMHO.

Yes there's a definite attitude difference between Bay Area providers, where GFE is the exception, whereas in LA and the other cities I mentioned, GFE is the norm.

There's too much competition in those cities from super smoking hot girls who offer GFE, so that if they were non-GFE they would not make enough to support themselves.  Here in the Bay Area what most consider smoking hot girls are fewer in number and very few if any are true GFEs.

Maybe it's part of the ultra feminist (FemiNazis) viewpoint of many women in the Bay Area that most men are pigs and women should revel in exercising whatever power they have (power of the pussy) and dictate how and under what conditions they provide once they have chosen to.  

This may stem from some women who had this viewpoint becoming providers and passing along the "Bay Area Norm" of everything covered, no kissing, etc. to newbie providers, the newbie providers taking this as gospel, and then passing this "norm" to the next wave of newbies, and thus perpetuating this "norm"

I'm not sure of this of course, but what I am sure about is the Bay Area hobby scene for such a significant metropolitan area really sucks in comparison to LA, South Florida & NYC.  If you think I'm blowing smoke, go to one of these cities and see for yourself.

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SFGentleman1291 reads


Your assessment is right on.  I have spent a lot of time on the East Coast, especially NYC.  Everything you have said about the differences between the SF Bay Area and other cities (such as NY) is true.  One has to look hard here to be sure and arrange a GFE experience, as opposed to the Eastern cities where you need not even ask - it's the norm.  

I can't explain the difference any better than jblmansf - I just know the difference is real.

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MysteryAdmin1037 reads

Well, I can honestly admit it was hard reading what you wrote above but I do appreciate your honesty and openness.   :)

Peace...

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jblmansf1088 reads

to accept it.  Do you have some vested interest in promoting the SF Bay Area as a good destination for hobbyists? It's not like you're a provider? or Are you?

TER exists to share insights & knowledge and provide feedback to the ladies.  If the local ladies wonder why they may not be as busy, this may offer at least a partial reason why.

Whether they choose to change their practices or not is up to them.  No coercion here except it's the same coercion in any market - consumers will gravitate to better service and better value for the money.

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CaitlynKennedy1255 reads

I dont fit your hot providers who are gfe in the bay list as I am a bbw but I am plenty busy....

and I do think there are LOTS of women who are hot and provide great gfe in the bay...


maybe you had some bad experiences?

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jblmansf1032 reads

I'm glad your busy.

Yes had occasions where a provider claimed they were GFE in the ad or on the phone and turned out it wasn't.  Bait & switch, fake photos, etc.  TER helps of course.

But as others have confirmed, in comparison to other cities, SF sucks for truly GFE providers who are 9s & 10s in appearance.

I'm sorry if my preferences somehow offends you, but obviously you have a following so you shouldn't feel threatened.

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CaitlynKennedy1113 reads

I dont feel threatened... but I find your comments that seem to suggest that that your idea of a 9 or 10 should be the norm's idea of a 9 or 10 to be the standard offensive.


just because you find a woman to be a 9 or 10 doesn't mean the next guy does! He may find women like me a 9 or 10 and your ideals a 4-5 and vice versa!

your preference was not at all what offended me, it was your close minded, superior attitude that did!

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OriginalCyn11084 reads

Posted By: CaitlynKennedy
I dont fit your hot providers who are gfe in the bay list as I am a bbw but I am plenty busy....

and I do think there are LOTS of women who are hot and provide great gfe in the bay...


maybe you had some bad experiences?
Caitlyn...since when did being a BBW rule out any hot factor??

YOU'RE HOT MY FRIEND!

(let's go to six flags again!)

xoxo

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CaitlynKennedy1020 reads

definitely anytime

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MysteryAdmin1089 reads

Posted By: jblmansf
to accept it.  Do you have some vested interest in promoting the SF Bay Area as a good destination for hobbyists? It's not like you're a provider? or Are you?

TER exists to share insights & knowledge and provide feedback to the ladies.  If the local ladies wonder why they may not be as busy, this may offer at least a partial reason why.

Whether they choose to change their practices or not is up to them.  No coercion here except it's the same coercion in any market - consumers will gravitate to better service and better value for the money.
I find it hard to accept because I've been seeing local providers for well over a decade and haven't run into what you've described.  Now, it's true I haven't been as active over the past few years and I haven't met  many new ladies so I can honestly admit that my perspective might be a bit skewed or maybe outdated. :)  When I was much more active, I found the attitude of the local ladies to be great and on par with what I had experience out of state.

I haven't seen many out of state providers, but I've seen a few. I've seen a few visitors, over the years, as well and my experiences with both sets of providers has been comparable, both in terms of quality of service provided, attitude, etc.

I also hear some of "the rest of the story" when it comes to the provider/client relationship and some of the things I've heard really shock me.  Things like basic hygiene, on the part of the client, being an issue, for example.

I have no vested interest in promoting the Bay Area but how can I expect to be happy to read some locals think the area "sucks" when it comes to local providers?  lol

In any event, that's why I started the thread. I wanted to see how things had changed over the years, if at all.  :)

Thanks again for your honesty and candidness.

Peace...

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jblmansf1029 reads

what constitutes 9s & 10s in appearance.

I don't think things have changed for the worse.  Actually it's just slightly better than in the past, but still greatly lacking in comparison to LA, S. Florida & NYC.

I think reviewers greatly inflate appearance and at times performance scores.  That's just my opinion, but I feel I'm not overly harsh, rather I'm realistic with my scoring.

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MysteryAdmin1184 reads

Posted By: jblmansf
what constitutes 9s & 10s in appearance.

I don't think things have changed for the worse.  Actually it's just slightly better than in the past, but still greatly lacking in comparison to LA, S. Florida & NYC.

I think reviewers greatly inflate appearance and at times performance scores.  That's just my opinion, but I feel I'm not overly harsh, rather I'm realistic with my scoring.
Without having looked at the reviews of providers you've seen in the past, I have no idea whom you consider to be a 9 or 10 in appearance.  That not withstanding, you're right that we probably do have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a 9 or 10 in appearance.  Some female celebrities some guys think are totally hot babes do nothing for me and vice-versa, I'm sure.

Another issue I've had to deal with is rate.  Most of the more physically attractive providers I've lusted after have had rates simply beyond my means.  I believe there was a provider in LA named "Isabella" (I think she's retired now) whom I would have loved to spend time with, but not at her rates because I simply could not afford them.  There are (and were) some locals whose rates were prohibitive for me so I've had to enjoy their photos and move on with my life. :)

I also agree with you that some reviewers, at least, inflate scores and for various reasons.  However, all of this is subjective and we're all entitled to our own opinions.

In any event, I'm hoping the economy improves next year such that I can start meeting some new ladies, possibly even some "hot babes".  :) lol

Peace...

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marincat1057 reads

I would have to agree with you on this.....

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thisistheage1225 reads

for a new ATF but they are hard to find here.  I much prefer to spend time with visitors.

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kenny_starr1318 reads

just my observations/opinions

craigslist closed their erotic services section so a lot of those providers and their pimps who advertised there migrated to other sites.  Another local board that I patronize appears to have been overrun with them.  They haven't made their way over here...yet.  Or maybe they have and I haven't noticed.

A lot of the AMPs have gone underground.

A lot of clients trying to stretch their dollars and trying to get more for less.  I'm mainly an fbsm guy and it seems like more and more clients are pushing for FBSM+ services.

again, just my opinion

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dickznormuss1701 reads

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LanceP1387 reads

Shill. LOL. Really.

Good luck. IMO, the SF Bay Area really is OTT regarding rating their "escorts".

It is  currently simply below standard. Remember the early 2000's. Some great gals there have now moved on  or are  now UTR.

Best on the Eastern Seaboard.One of my ATFs from SF makes monthly tours east. Trying to convince her to move East. :)

Peace,
Lance

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jblmansf1020 reads

from the basic tone of your post, I think you are agreeing with the sentiment that the Sf scene does suck.  But not sure what OTT means

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LanceP1159 reads

Sir, jblmansf,

OTT means "Over The Top".

Lance

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dickznormuss1189 reads

Whatever happened to the luscious Yumi of Burlingame?  Ah, those were the days

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MysteryAdmin1065 reads

Posted By: dickznormuss
Whatever happened to the luscious Yumi of Burlingame?  Ah, those were the days
I never had the chance to meet her but I spent a fair amount of time with Ivy.  :)

Peace...

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MysteryAdmin1118 reads

So, given the comments above about the lack of availability of "GFE" service provided by very attractive local providers, is the main "beef" that there simply aren't many very attractive locals who provide "GFE" service, like in other regions, or is it that they don't provide those services at "affordable" rates?

I would consider an appearance rating of 9 or 10 as being "very attractive".

Peace...

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TabithaInSF1094 reads

I've been a SF provider for 1.5 yrs now. I am always busy and I am REAL gfe but there truly is a lot of back lash from non-gfe providers. There seems to be an us vs. them kind of attitude in the bay area: gfe vs. non-gfe. There are non-gfe ladies who post endless streams of scary stories about STDs on our (other) board and there are those who charge a few bucks for uncovered FS. There seems to be no real "norm" in the bay area but that is reflected in our culture everywhere.

As far as the 'there are no 9's or 10's in the bay area' -- I will relate a quick story to you that my ex from LA told me.

He grew up in SD and LA and moved to SF as a young 20-something and was appalled at the looks of the women here. He was used to the blonde hair, tanned, fake nails, fake this, fake that look of SoCal ladies. He thought all of the ladies in SF with their natural looks, bohemian or goth styles were frumpy and unattractive. He started dating and his entire aesthetic changed. He grew to like the natural look; he developed a goth girl fetish.

Personally, I think that there are quite a few local 10's who are gfe. I am not promoting myself here and I am not into women at all. I just know that there are some solid model material working ladies here. I can think of at least five off the top of my head and I am not really trying. The only difference is the bay area "model" might be more likely found in a fetish mag or kink.com and not on the cover of Maxim or Vogue.

Love,
Tabitha

PS I agree with the poster who said "light gfe" is BS. Pick a side!

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MysteryAdmin980 reads

Thanks for the comments!  :)

Posted By: TabithaInSF
I've been a SF provider for 1.5 yrs now. I am always busy and I am REAL gfe but there truly is a lot of back lash from non-gfe providers. There seems to be an us vs. them kind of attitude in the bay area: gfe vs. non-gfe. There are non-gfe ladies who post endless streams of scary stories about STDs on our (other) board and there are those who charge a few bucks for uncovered FS. There seems to be no real "norm" in the bay area but that is reflected in our culture everywhere.
I wasn't aware of this animosity between GFE and non-GFE providers.  For the record, I tend to consider "GFE" to really refer to "unprotected services" since I've had girlfriends who weren't into some of the things some providers I've seen have been open to.  :)  Anyway, being a GFE provider, do you take offense at the back lash from the non-GFE providers?

Also, when you travel, does your service offering change based on the region your visit or do you provide the same quality and caliber of service everywhere?

On a side note, I love the photos on your site!  :)

Peace...

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TabithaInSF1155 reads

Thanks Mystery!

GFE means essentially deep kissing and unprotected oral, imo. To put it into acronyms, it means: BBBJ, CFS, DFK, DATY, and usually MSOG. If a provider choses to do other unprotected services, that is their prerogative but one does not have to go beyond kissing and unprotected oral to honestly call themselves GFE. In fact, I think that it is very, very risky business and I would advise them against it!

Would I berate them on the boards as some women do? Absolutely not. I may send them a private message with links to health clinics in the area that cater to sex workers.

I am not offended at all by the back lash of non-gfe providers. I do not take it personal. I conduct my business in a a way that I am comfortable with and that is safe according to all of the research I have done and doctors that I have spoken to. Actually the back lash makes me sad because I like to see sex workers support each other. Our industry can be very isolating. In an ideal world, I would like to see us all respect each other and each other's choices and support one another.

As far as your girlfriends not doing what providers do, well, I hear it all the time. But remember that we are professionals who should be open and experienced sexually. At the very least, we should not make men feel bad or guilty about their desires, even if we cannot or will not fulfill them.

Love,
Tabitha

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MysteryAdmin1081 reads

Posted By: TabithaInSF
GFE means essentially deep kissing and unprotected oral, imo. To put it into acronyms, it means: BBBJ, CFS, DFK, DATY, and usually MSOG. If a provider choses to do other unprotected services, that is their prerogative but one does not have to go beyond kissing and unprotected oral to honestly call themselves GFE. In fact, I think that it is very, very risky business and I would advise them against it!
Yep, we're on the same page here.  It's just even though "Experience" is part of the GFE abbreviation, what you describe above doesn't mention the "experience" at all.  That's part of the problem I have with the term, but I digress. :)
I am not offended at all by the back lash of non-gfe providers. I do not take it personal. I conduct my business in a a way that I am comfortable with and that is safe according to all of the research I have done and doctors that I have spoken to. Actually the back lash makes me sad because I like to see sex workers support each other. Our industry can be very isolating. In an ideal world, I would like to see us all respect each other and each other's choices and support one another.
What surprises me about the backlash, as well, is it happening in the open.  NOT being a provider, I would assume the ladies would be supportive of each other in public, at least, and caution and/or inform each other about safe practices or risks privately, in some fashion.  Maybe I'm just naive.  :)  lol
As far as your girlfriends not doing what providers do, well, I hear it all the time. But remember that we are professionals who should be open and experienced sexually. At the very least, we should not make men feel bad or guilty about their desires, even if we cannot or will not fulfill them.
I certainly appreciate your philosophy.  I mentioned my past girlfriends as an example of a "real world" experience that didn't involve all of the services you mention above.

In any event, I hope our paths may cross some day.  :)

Peace...

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TabithaInSF1108 reads

Such a good point about the "experience" part of the date. And I do truly hate thinking of what I do in terms of acronyms only. The "experience" for me means a few flirty emails before the date, asking the gent what kind of refreshments they like (usually for longer dates only) and then having them ready, giving massage, showering or bathing together, flirty conversation, teasing (and pleasing), and a whole host of other things. Really every date and everyone is unique and I approach it like that.

Posted By: MysteryAdmin
Posted By: TabithaInSF
GFE means essentially deep kissing and unprotected oral, imo. To put it into acronyms, it means: BBBJ, CFS, DFK, DATY, and usually MSOG. If a provider choses to do other unprotected services, that is their prerogative but one does not have to go beyond kissing and unprotected oral to honestly call themselves GFE. In fact, I think that it is very, very risky business and I would advise them against it!
Yep, we're on the same page here.  It's just even though "Experience" is part of the GFE abbreviation, what you describe above doesn't mention the "experience" at all.  That's part of the problem I have with the term, but I digress. :)
I am not offended at all by the back lash of non-gfe providers. I do not take it personal. I conduct my business in a a way that I am comfortable with and that is safe according to all of the research I have done and doctors that I have spoken to. Actually the back lash makes me sad because I like to see sex workers support each other. Our industry can be very isolating. In an ideal world, I would like to see us all respect each other and each other's choices and support one another.
What surprises me about the backlash, as well, is it happening in the open.  NOT being a provider, I would assume the ladies would be supportive of each other in public, at least, and caution and/or inform each other about safe practices or risks privately, in some fashion.  Maybe I'm just naive.  :)  lol
As far as your girlfriends not doing what providers do, well, I hear it all the time. But remember that we are professionals who should be open and experienced sexually. At the very least, we should not make men feel bad or guilty about their desires, even if we cannot or will not fulfill them.
I certainly appreciate your philosophy.  I mentioned my past girlfriends as an example of a "real world" experience that didn't involve all of the services you mention above.

In any event, I hope our paths may cross some day.  :)

Peace...

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MysteryAdmin1069 reads

Posted By: TabithaInSF
Such a good point about the "experience" part of the date. And I do truly hate thinking of what I do in terms of acronyms only. The "experience" for me means a few flirty emails before the date, asking the gent what kind of refreshments they like (usually for longer dates only) and then having them ready, giving massage, showering or bathing together, flirty conversation, teasing (and pleasing), and a whole host of other things. Really every date and everyone is unique and I approach it like that.
Sounds like a great experience to me, given your apparent attentiveness.  I've had more than on experience which involved her being into the TV while I was "into" her.  :)  lol

Have a great weekend!

Peace...

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