Folks,  those of you enlightened about the local political scene, how about giving us some suggestions about who to vote for!

who to vote for??... heck you know, I have no idea! none of them are worth it, if you are refering to majoral candidates... Now if you are talking about presidential elections... well how about if we skip that electoral crap, since its all aranged anyway, and we just impeach Bush once and for all???....please.... well I mean, if they were going to impeach Clinton for doing some gal on his lunch break, why not impeach Bush then??....well and instead of seating Cheney on the chair, how about if we kick him out as well, and we replace those two clowns with real leaders that will speak for the people and represent true american ideologies and values!! Now since Arnold is the governor here already, I'm thinking about candidates like Jim Carey, Bruce Willis, Adam Sandler, Robin Williams, and maybe even Weird Al Yankovik!... we can't go wrong with any of these guys, considering what Bush has done for us so far...

El Rey knows where all the stinkin' badges are!!

now there is an uninformed product of the california school system.

ugh

I hope you are listening now. First of all, Bush is the most corrurpt president we have had since Harding. His oil buddies have written most of our countries energy policies, since he has been elected (illegeally). Bush is nothing but a complete liar about his military record and his desire to avoid the draft. Bush's  economic policies are totally tilted to the top 1%of Americans while giving nothing to anyone else.


Bush's policies in Iraq are totally corrupt and civil war will erupt there within 6 months of the US pullout.


He has left our country billions in debt and squandered a surplus left by Clinton.

He is a liar, a faker, and should not be elected. He really wasn't elected the first time anytime.

as in the mayor race coming up in a few weeks, I didn't know Bush is running, LOL.

Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and George W. Bush were set to face a firing squad in a small Central American country. Bill Clinton was the first one placed against the wall, and just before the order was given he yelled out, "Earthquake!" The firing squad fell into a panic, and Bill jumped over the wall and escaped in the confusion

Al Gore was the second one placed against the wall. The squad was reassembled, and Al pondered what he had just witnessed. Again, before the order was given, Al yelled out, "Tornado!" Again, the squad fell apart, and Al slipped over the wall.

The last person, George W. Bush, was placed against the wall. He was thinking, "I see the pattern here."  He confidently refused the blindfold as the firing squad was reassembled. As the rifles were raised in his direction, he grinned from ear to ear and yelled, "Fire!"


Hey jaggieboy, that's your idiotic President for you!

Well, there appears to be more Democrats here that refuse to accept the fact that our president was fairly elected. I will be the first to admit that he has made some huge blunders. His amnesty proposal makes me want to puke, I have been against the invasion of Iraq from the start, and I would prefer not to get into his habit of throwing money at every little problem. The man is without a doubt not the sharpest tool in the shed.
      I will however take him over Kerry any day of the week. Fortunately for Edwards, he has almost no voting record. Because of that, we have no idea where he stands on the issues. Kerry however, has managed to flip flop more often that the flap jacks at the local IHOP. The man (I use that term loosely) could actually debate himself if he wanted to. He has taken the opposite sides of so many issues that I don’t think that anybody (including himself) knows where he stands.
    At least with Bush, I know where he and his administration stand on the important issues and what he plans to do. I may not agree with it, but I know his intentions. If we are attacked again, how many of you really want Kerry in that office? Keep in mind, he has a perfect record, or near, of voting against every major weapons system. If Kerry had his way, we would have no nukes as deterrents.
    In 2000, the lesser of 2 evils was elected (fairly) and I for one am glad that he was in office on 9/11/01. So, stop your whining and get out there and campaign for who you want to win.  

Antonin Scalia is the man who elected the last President, along with 4 other Supreme Court Justices, all of whom were nominated by Conservative Republican Presidents.  The fact is, even two Supreme Court Justices who were nominated by Conservative Republican Presidents (Souter and Stevens) could not countenance the stench of the last election, and their brethren's actions to install George Dumbya Bush into the White House by Judicial Fiat.  Nonetheless, we will correct this problem come November.

-- Modified on 3/1/2004 2:39:25 PM

-- Modified on 3/1/2004 2:39:51 PM

Sheesh, that was four years ago.

Second, according to the final recount, Bush STILL won the election by some 500+ votes.

Fer cryin' out loud. If you can't get over the fact that the 2000 election WAS in 2000, then you have no business debating politics because your viewpoint is prejudiced by history and you cannot apply critical thinking to the current issues.

And as for the details, there were very substantial allegations of irregularities, including preventing of numerous registered voters from voting in several of the poor (and heavily Democratic) districts in Florida.  The actual investigations into these protests was one of the things that the Supreme Court decision shut down.  I agree, it was nearly 3 and half years ago.  But Bush's illegitimacy as President is timeless, and will remain so.  Anyone who is convinced that this issue was rightly decided is JUST as prejudiced as those who's views are otherwise.  Having "won" doesn't make it right, just decided.  

And, BTW, I AM past it.  I am merely intent on making sure that Bush is OUT in THIS COMING election.  THEN, once he's gone, we can set our sights FORWARD on undoing all the damage he's done to this country.

"(CNN) – Experts hired by The Miami Herald and USA Today conducted a comprehensive review of 64,248 "undercounted" ballots in Florida's 67 counties that ended last month. The count showed that Bush's razor-thin margin of 537 votes -- certified in December by the Florida Secretary of State's office -- would have tripled to 1,655 votes if counted according to standards advocated by his Democratic rival, former Vice President Al Gore."

So much for "Bush's illegitimacy as President". Election fraud, well, now, hmmmm......I don't think the Supreme COurt shut THAT down, that impacts constitutional rights. Where's the ACLU screaming for a FULL investigation.

It won't change the results, but it might prevent future problems. Then again, since it wouldn't benefit the Democratic agenda, why bother.

Nothing is perfect, and in the 2004 election, we already know both parties will be in court contesting the election again.

Bottom line is Gore lost.....lick the wounds and try again in '04. But BOTH SIDES, quit the sniping and BS petty crap.

I want ISSUES, no more of this "illegitimate presidency" nonsense, or "stolen election". If you can't RATIONALLY present SOLUTIONS, instead of just say how bad the OTHER party is, you have no legitimate argument.


The new election slogan for BOTH paries SHOULD BE:  What WILL YOU do? And, HOW WILL YOU DO it?


You wanna raise MY taxes-screw you.

I DO have a rational solution for the FUTURE:  Vote Bush out of office, by enough votes that nobody will be able to steal it.

And, the fact is, there are lots of ways to tax people.  It can be done honestly and up front, (which is what Kerry would likely do) or it can be done by spending into huge deficits, that tax us all stealthily by de-valuing or currency for the foreseeable future.  This is EVERY BIT as much of a tax increase as if we simply divided the TRILLIONS of dollars of deficits that Dumbya has committed us to in the near future, and allocated those Trillions of Dollars of spending among the general populace (The $3 TRILLION of committed deficits number that I've seen comes to roughly a $10,000 additional charge per American citizen, BTW).  Bush has chosen to do it this way, and in a more egregious manner than any other President in history.  I find it ironic that it was Dumbya's father who coined the term "Voodoo Economics" to describe this type of deceptive practice, but it was only his son Dumbya who has actually mastered the concept and inflicted us with it.

It is interesting to see supposed conservative Republicans (i.e., George W., Arnold) argue that raising deficits will not ultimately raise your taxes.

If you owe lots of money as an individual, all sorts of bad things happen. You, or your spouse, will ultimately have to pay back what you borrowed with interest. If you don't pay up and also don't declare bankruptcy, your creditors will start seizing your assets. If you do declare bankruptcy, you may retain some assets but also become a financial pariah for years.

As sdstud alludes to, the massive borrowing under the erstwhile conservative George W. has the potential to put the U.S. at the mercy of its creditors. Already much of our debt is underwritten by the Chinese, Japanese and Arabs. Such huge debt could also cause us to default on our Social Security and Medicare entitlements. Just last week, Greenspan was testifying that we should look into cutting back on Social Security/Medicare or increasing the age at which you can collect these benefits. If this isn't a tax, I'm not sure what is. Oh that's right. It's only a tax on working stiffs, not on the Fortune 500 families who are the only real beneficiaries of George W.'s tax cuts.

Of course, we could always just print lots of money and pay the debt off with funny money. But then, the value of the dollar would drop on international markets, and massive inflation would set in.

If we need extra money to pay for us being at "war", how about selling war bonds or raise taxes as we've done in the past. Our last attempt at fighting a war without raising taxes was in Vietnam, and led to the huge inflation rates of the late 70's.

Actually, I long for the days of real Republicans like Ev Dirksen or Warren Rudman. I don't know where the present lot came from.

I can always count on you to put some real thought and facts behind an argument.  Not that SD Stud wasn't doing okay on his own...and he has been giving them hell on the National...but is it hard to dispute the calm manner with which you tell it like it is.

You go, buddy.

If any of you think that you don't deserve a tax cut, go ahead and send in more money when you do your taxes.  In fact, based on what most Democrats believe, none of you should be itemizing your deductions.  Why do you itemize?  That's right...to reduce your tax liablity.  What's the matter, don't want to pay your fair share?  It is all BS.  The less I give to Washington the better.  We all have to survive on fixed budgets within our means, so why can't they do the same?  Class envy is not the way this country was founded.  IF you aren't happy with your current situation, don't take it out on someone who is doing better than you are.  Strive to be better in what you do.  I'm sick of hearing, "The rich need to pay their fair share."  Let's see, I pay $$,$$$ in property taxes (renters don't pay anything) every year and just because I make over $100,000 a year working 70 hours a week, I am not considered what Dems refer to as, "working families".  What, because I don't wear plaid shirts and Levi's with a tool belt to work means that I don't work?  Okay, I'll stop now....  Just get out and VOTE NO ON PROP 56!!!!  KEEP THE 2/3 MAJORITY TO RAISE OUR TAXES!!!!!

Thanks for the encouragement MrSelfDestruct....there'll be a little something extra in your pay envelope this Friday (LOL).

MMMM MMMMM MMMMM  you boyz are making me hot with all the debate~~

I mentioned "Baby Doc" to the man sitting next to me as we watched the unfolding news in Haiti on Friday and he turned and looked at me blankly...  UGGG

I guess I get more stimulated by brainiacs than by.. well... nevermind.

Elise [email protected]

Gee, I had something brilliant, witty and trenchant to say about Aristide's recent ouster from Haiti, the rise and fall of French colonialism, analogies to our neocolonial efforts in Iraq....and then I remembered those great photos of Elise on eros-sandiego and I completely lost my train of thought!

Trust the ladies to remind us of what's really important...(LOL)

The present bunch is too busy pandering to the Religious right to find common ground in the middle.

So your children will end up paying your fair share, thanks to the Bush administration.

If Kerry wins, he will probably continue what Bush has done...Mr. flip flop here could be for sale now, so might as well throw a coin.

Kerry would also bring a recognition that he is President of, and responsible to the ENTIRE country, not just the 48% of the country that voted for Bush.

Now, that statement was just too stupid to pass up. The ENTIRE country??? What planet are you from and what have you been smoking? I want something that will make me as delusional as you. If Kerry were president, we would probably have had several more attacks on our soil by now. The only thing that he knows about defense is how to rip it apart. His record speaks for itself. Enough said.

He's done a really good job of living up to his pledge, "I'm a uniter, not a divider"

I agree, Kerry's record speaks for itself.  It speaks to the fact that he would make a far superior president than Bush (of course, a wet lump of sh*t would be a slightly superior president than Bush, so a pretty low bar has been set).

BTW, if you want something to make you as delusional as I am, try some reality, rather than the propaganda Bush and his Haliburton buddies have been sticking us with.

....every Democrat I know wants him out of office.

Which actually raises an interesting question. It is widely known that Saddam Hussein regarded himself as a modern Saladin. I'm wondering if George W., especially now with his numerous initiatives pandering to the Christian right, envisions himself as a latter-day Richard "The Lionheart" Plantagenet, protecting the Holy Lands (and also oil) from the infidels through a never-ending Crusade.

If so, maybe at some point we can have leaders more firmly rooted in this century?

Have you looked at Kerry's record? Where does he stand on building up, or even keeping our millitary? I know the answer. How has he voted on every new weapon system that he has come across? Like I said, his record speaks for itself. Maybe he can get Jane Fonda as a running mate and they can go both support our enemies again. Bwahahaha!

Although I never cared for Bushieboy's father when he was President, at least the man had integrity, something Jr. seriously lacks. Bushieboy is too busy being told what to do by the Grand Puppet Master, Dick ("Can't Find Me") Chaeny, the Texas Oil Companies and other International Conglomerates.

Face it people, the man is a F*cking Moron whose swipped the last election from the electoral process. The man governs not from intellegence, but from emotional divisive issues like gay marriages, terrorism, etc., pandering to the least common denominator in favor to the extreme right wingers of this country. I think even Dan Qualye (another idiotic "poster boy" for the right) may be even smarter than this man.

Actually, I think George W.'s apparent lack of intelligence (e.g., non-responsive answers on the recent Meet the Press debacle) may well reflect his long-term alcohol and drug use. Such abuse is known to cause fundamental alterations in brain function. Would be very interesting to do functional MRI/PET scans on George W.

Simply on a genetic basis, you would expect that his intelligence to more-or-less mirror that of his parents. The fact that it is clearly inferior argues for exogenous factors.

Does give one pause that the leader of the last remaining superpower could barely hold his own on this forum.

Any one of which should be sufficient to disqualify Bush from the office he holds for the next 10 months.

Kerry acted on his personal convictions in doing whatever he could to end the Vietnam war.  And he undoubtedly helped to save many American lives in doing so.

The only personal convictions George Dumbya Bush has are drug and alcohol related.

It would probably depend on WHERE in the course of Reagan's Alzheimers disease that one made the comparison.  But clearly, something has impacted Dumbya's intellect.  Perhaps Barbara dropped him on his head as a child?   That, or he just killed too many brain cells with substance abuse.

Frankly, he shouldn't have any job more challenging that running a Golf club.  THAT's something he's qualified to do.

So , to the best of your knowledge, when was the last time that Bush was drunk? Do you know? I don't. However, I noticed that you accuse him of being a drunk. I have yet to see any sign of him being a coward. I won't go so far as to label Bush an idiot, but I will be more than happy to label Kerry an extreme Liberal. That was worst thing that I could think of. BTW, he claims that he hates labels, yet for the past six months, he constantly refers to our current president an a staunch and extreme conservative. Again, he flipped and flopped.

His last time as a drunk was perhaps 20 years ago.  But we all know that alcoholism is something that is never cured, so a relapse could happen at any time - especially in the face of great stress.  So I suggest a less stressful job for Dumbya, to help him keep his sobriety.  

As for cowardice, his entire life's behavior embodies cowardice, including his ducking out of combat, and then ducking out on the national guard duties.

BTW, Liberal derives from the same root word as liberty.  Liberalism is a high calling - Thanks for the compliment - to both Kerry and to myself.  I wear the badge with honor, and I am sure Kerry would as well, if morons like yourself did not misrepresent it in a manner that would be politically damaging. Certainly, I'd rather be called a Liberal than a Conservative.  To me, being a Liberal denotes generosity or spirit and resources, while conservatism denotes intellectual inflexibility, stinginess, and bigotry.  I am proud that none of those things are characteristics of Liberalism.



-- Modified on 3/5/2004 2:16:27 PM

In terms of the mental deficits that accrue due to long-term alcoholism, it actually is irrelevant whether W. has had a drink in the last 20 years. Although recent studies indicate some plasticity in the brain (i.e., new cell growth), it is not enough to counterbalance the neurological degeneration that accompanies alcoholism. The same, of course, is true of the cirrhosis of the liver that frequently occurs in alcoholics.

BTW, I think it is an "extreme" misnomer to call W. a conservative. Anyone that attacks a sovereign nation on a preemptive basis, particularly based on fudged up intelligence of WMD, can hardly be called as conservative. In this regard, I would tend to lump both W. and LBJ together as "extremists". LBJ similarly inflated a non-event (i.e., the supposed attack on our destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin) as a pretext for escalating the Vietnam war.

This thread has gone on long enough don't you think? The few here who are trading partisan blows are all making asses of themselves. None of you are going to change the other sides minds by degenerating the conversation into name calling. I have my side of the issue have no intent of divulging it here. Both have valid points. Settle it in November.

Wha! Wha! Wha! They stole the election! Us old folks from Florida voted for Bob Marley instead of Al Snore. Get over it man! What was that, three and a half years ago?

John (lefty liberal Ted Kennedy clone)Kerry will make for nice batting practice this spring / summer. Did he remember which side of the bed to wake up to this morning?

Really?, you talk a good game lets work on your lack of documentaton. Which oil buddies have written which energy policies? Please be specific. Bush was elected legally, you just don'r like it, what, three and a half years later. Sad to be bitter, so long. I hope you don't take it out on the wife!

Explain to us all Einstein, how Bush lied about his military record? Must be nice to make accusations about someone with no proof to back up your claim. Big man!

How are Bush's policies in Iraq corrupt? Again, back up your accusations with documentation. Civil War will break out within 6 months of our pullout? How do you know that, Nostrodomas? Under your view the Iraqi people would have been better off with Hussein and his mass graves, imprisonment of all who oppose him, your basic insane dictator. If you want I will go on about what Hussein has done to his people and country for decades.

What side of the bed will John (lefty liberal, Ted Kennedy clone) Kerry wake up on tomorrow. Whatever way the wind blows, you're right!

Bush has been the right president at the right time. Imagine, god forbid, Clinton, Gore or Kerry in office during the 9/11 tragedy. Before discussing Bush's performance attacking terrorism, what about the liberal's short term memory. All of a sudden John Kerry is the commander in chief they want to continue the war on terrorism? Believe you me, Kerry's flip flop voting and positions will be torn apart by the conservative watch dogs over the months leading up to the election.

I just don't get the short attention span following 9/11. We are still at war against terrorism. Right or wrong? Bush has effectively fought that battle, keeping our country safe. Do you all think the threat of terror is gone? John Kerry would do a better job of fighting the war we are in against terrorism? No, his liberal background and flip flopping positions are scary. At least Bush STICKS TO HIS BELIEFS and we know where our president stands on issues. Kerry is like a leaf in a wind storm.

are we at war with terrorists???...well we are now for sure!!
The question really is, who really started it, and why?...because there's no proof at all that 9/11 was caused by Sadam, or any "terrorists", and the whole storyline they want us to memorize like parrots, doesn't make any sense.... and the fact that they are still unable to catch Bin Laden proves that its nothing but a cover.... I just can't believe they can't catch some old guy running through the mountains with an Ak-45, and a good stash of cash....which must all be in some huge hole by the way, considering how good LE is at freezing and tracking accts and all that...sometimes things are not what they seem to be.

Naughtius,
                  I more or less hate to see this stuff aired here just as much as you do. However, both sides are doing our best to grab those undecided votes. Any Republican that thinks this election is in the bag is seriously mistaken. This is going to be another nail biter. Both candidates have several flaws and very few talents. It’s going to be just like the last election where many of us vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

UDOG, I like your position, but what about Bush's absolute apathy about our border. Remember, the 9/11 terrorists, though mostly Saudi, used the mescan network for finding illegal documents (driver's licenses and social security cards). Not only that, former soviet 'officials', in numerous books and articles, have stated that they were easily able to penetrate the US via the mescan border, using mostly cuban agents acting as mescans. Also remember that mesco and cuba are good friends, and that castro launched his campaign into cuba in the late 50s from mesco, **WITH** mesco's support.

The more I see Bush, the more I find him to be very week, wishy washy, with an awful plan both domestically (the only good thing was the tax cut, but it did NOT go far enough, and he could have bulldozed something much better *EASILY* in the fall of 2001 - he missed a golden opportunity), and in Iraq. It was so obvious to me and to some people around me (at the time) that though the war was easy, a post war plan was needed. I lived in Argentina during and after the Fauckland's war, I remember that process.... many many similarities in error of judegement by the US govt.

Basically, haven't we learned from vietnam and the Fauckland's war?

All of the illegals I know in this country (which are quite a few since being here in SD) are NOT all mescan, in fact some of them come from arab and other south american countries. Yet, they all got their bogus social security cards from the mescan infrastructure (the mescans have been well organized for some time obtaining real but 'blank' documents and then reselling them to whoever is willing to pay).

Last I heard, social security cards were sellng for about $200.

Lastly, I *KNOW* where these can be obtained. Along the border or close to the mescan consulate, there are a a whole slew of document processing agencies and lawyers offering their services. All you have to do is walk in, let them feel comfortable that you are not undercover, and presto!! Anything you want!