San Diego

hobby as civvie dating??
clarkecosta See my TER Reviews 3109 reads
posted

so i've had quite a week of a mountain of emails asking me to ignore my screening process....especially when it comes to references.  which you can imagine is fun for someone who puts up a website stating guidelines clearly so she won't have to deal with these kind of emails.

but this week i received a new kind of request to meet by someone who did have a provider reference, and a long term one supposedly. but he didn't want to GIVE the reference because he did not want her to know he was seeing another provider! huh?  he's been seeing this provider reference regularly for years and has to sneak around and quietly cheat on her with other providers..and he wanted me to be understanding about that as he hoped to create a long term relationship with me too....sight unseen.

my first take on this was, ok, a creative way to get around my screening.  and clearly trying to throw in the LURE of mentioning he'd be my regular too....just a thought, whenever a guy mentions this to a girl he has yet to meet, it comes off as trying to appeal to her sense of greed ...and in my experience girls who screen are trying to weed people OUT, not get as many people in the door as possible and as regularly as possible....so that approach rarely works with girls who are discerning about who they meet.  

but there is also the possibility that this guy has set up a committed relationship with a provider and has agreed not to see anyone else.  and has to see other girls the way guys do with their spouses and girlfriends....on the down low.  this struck me as an antithesis to the hobby -- isn't the hobby about freedom and variety and not having to tiptoe around sexual wants, desires, wanton impulses?  why would you find freedom and put yourself back in chains???  i have heard there are girls who demand this from thier clients and if i were a guy, i'd laugh and then politely just say no!  

i have also seen and heard girls being jealous and possessive with people they have seen and when contacted for references, they attempt to cause problems for that girl asking for the reference.  this is a side to the hobby that is such a waste of time -- there is plenty for everyone!  we can all share and the more we support each other and stick together, the safer, saner and more fun the community can be for everyone.

needless to say, even if this guy's story was real, i of course wouldn't consider meeting anyone without a reference and let's face it, he's been seeing other girls on the side so he must have other references unless every girl he meets he becomes "exclusive' with lol...so it's just another delete in my inbox but it made me wonder how common this is in the hobby.  

if freedom is the lure of the hobby, why forfeit it within the hobby?  aside from being in love or falling in love, let's say this is not the case...then what could the "payoff" be for the guy?  

curious what thoughts people have as this one made me think!

xo
Clarke





NorSan1194 reads

I'm a newbie, virgin to the hobby but diving in soon. My opinion in this situation obviously may not be very informative but I do I have a question regarding your screening requirements. I visited your page and read your requirements and maybe it's my inexperience with the hobby but I don't think I would divulge my business information, my title or business phone numbers. It's obvious from your reviews that you are popular and a phenomenal provider but when I say those requirements i immediately thought of my loan manager asking me to fill out paperwork for a 3rd! You have every right to ask for anything you wish and its your prerogative to turn anyone down but wow I was just taken aback a little on that list.

Please set me straight =]

~NS

You should only do what you are comfortable doing!  There are plenty of people in the community and each one has their particular likes, dislikes and ways of doing things.  I entered this hobby in big cities, like New York and Los Angeles and did extensive research before doing so.  The reality is when a girl invites you into her private space, she is risking a continuum of things....her personal safety (murderers, rapists, violent people), her privacy (her home address or a place that she can be found regularly), her trust (being robbed of her possessions or ripped off of her donation), her health (disease)....and her future (being arrested, outed to her possible coworkers at her regular job).

I take my personal safety and future very seriously and I learned from the top girls in this hobby that screening fully is the only way to minimize these risks.  I also realized that I was never cut out to be a high volume girl and that passing up people who do not want to be screened was fine with me.  Needless to say, I have never had one unpleasant experience and the type of men I meet are complete gentlemen.  If I am trusting someone with my life..my wellbeing...then they have to trust me with their personal information.

There have been countless debates on screening on all boards...ultimately, you have to do what you are comfortable with;)

Happy hunting!

You brought up more than one issue to respond to.

"Relationships" in the hobby are as complicated as people want to make them. This guy sounds like part of what he wants out of the hobby is a little bit of drama. Perhaps he wants to think his provider will be jealous... And if that's what works for him and his provider, no problem. In fact, he's paying for the drama! So as long as no one is being hurt, it's all fine.

But he shouldn't waste your time - just fill out the form, guy!

Just like in real life outside the hobby, boudaries between people can be complicated if they are not spelled out clearly. The hobby is one of the few places in life between the sexes where it is preferred to lay down boundaries. Over and over again you hear both providers AND hobbyists say the attractive aspect of the hobby is that hobbying is a simpler and easier way to deal with the opposite sex.

Providers have a responsibility to take care of themselves and make sure they are safe - so screening makes sense. And hobbyists have a responsibility to themselves to remember that this is a business. It's not a way to make friends.

Because I think of the hobby in business terms, I've never had a problem. Sure, sometimes I've seen providers who did not meet my needs, so I voted with my feet and saw other providers instead. No big deal. I never got emotionally hurt, or felt the need to write a nasty review, or warn others about ripoffs or any of that other stuff. This activity is one place where "caveat emptor" must apply, or it becomes too much trouble for everyone.

I've always wondered why providers seek out references... Why wouldn't a provider be proprietary about their clients?  It doesn't make business sense. But from a safety standpoint, providers sharing info about clients makes perfect sense. So in the end, I guess safety trumps making a quick buck.

You wrote: "aside from being in love or falling in love, let's say this is not the case...then what could the "payoff" be for the guy?"

Psychologically speaking, the guy may not be paying for sex, but for the feeling that someone cares for him. This "caring" would be demonstrated to him by a provider getting upset if he sees other women. Or perhaps he gets fun out of the feeling of "cheating" on his provider. There are a few other ways to take it...

but I've already overstayed whatever welcome I had.  

Thank you for your perspective - some of those aspects of the payoff make perfect sense and didn't occur to me at all;)

In terms of references, I avoided them initially not because of competition in the pure business sense - this hobby is not like straight buisness, you can be SURE no matter how much a guy likes a provider...he WILL see other girls and be continually interested in the new one on the block;)  Where there is brand loyalty in business (for instance I will never choose diet pepsi over diet coke)..it doesn't really exist in the hobby.

I always thought references would be bad in terms of inciting those jealous/crazy providers that i would read about on the boards and watch the cat fights that ensued....but in screening sometimes you are on the fence or have a bad feeling, by having a reference from a reputable girl, it allows you to meet someone new with a MUCH decreased level of stress (at least in my experience).  I still get girls emailing me pretending to be a client (I know from the cell phone registered in a girls name, lol!)  - to see where I am or what my phone number is to threaten me or simply to be able to write a fake review and show backup for it -- so there are drawbacks but overall the good far outweighs the bad.

I also thinks it keeps in real in terms of keeping it in perspective each time you get someone requesting a reference that men move around as much as girls see different people in this hobby;))

Not all men look at hobbying as sport. Therefore, they aren't looking for a different girl, so the lastest and greastest all the time
(married or not)
Many really do enter the hobby for companionship as a whole, or something special they need.
If in the course of finding an ATF they have made some sort of arrangement, then seeing another girl may make them feel awkward or like they are cheating. He may have gotten jealous over reviews or wants to try something new.
Who really knows when thinking with the little head.
But either way, he can't or doesn't want the ATF to know. She may be perfectly fine with him exercising on the playground.
It could just be a boy thing to avoid any conflict , or not lose a security blanket...

One side....


PS. As a side note. For some of you, it may help to know that although the screening info is requested. You can request to not have your job called. Most girls will work with you on the screeing and understand discretion.

-- Modified on 8/20/2007 2:30:30 PM

Yes - good point Jai;)  I am a STEALTH SCREENER - i know how to verify your work without calling and actually NEVER call and ask someone about you!

keg19691809 reads

One of the things I like about the "hobby" is, since I'm single, I don't have some of the guilt of sneaking around behind my SO's back. I love the veriety of meeting and having experiences with new people. When I meet people I really like and seem to have good chemistry with them, I continue to see them as much as I can, but no one has ever asked me to see just them, exclusivly, and if they did, I would polietly decline. Also, maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never been refused a refernce from any provider I've seen when I've asked.

The power that the female genitalia has over the male brain. Talk about a one sided commitment. She probably keeps his balls in a jar, on the nightstand.
Then again, it could be a clever ploy by LE to get past screening.
Good for you Clarke, for not lowering your standards. Be careful and don't let your guard down

-- Modified on 8/19/2007 10:08:28 AM

lol - i guess the payoff for the guy would be he likes having his junk in a jar;))  i have heard about this for several years so i know there are many men who do agree to be faithful to one provider (i've read a lot about it here and on other boards).  i could only come up with a few reasons in my mind why a guy would do this..so it stumped me.

i hope we all stay safe, sane and have FUN!

Single guy here…why would I commit myself monogamously to someone whose time I'm paying for?  Variety and simplicity is the whole point.

Good point..but as the saying goes, "Different strokes for different folks".

Some men like to have an exclusive arrangement with a woman that does not involve normal "civie" relationship issues like jealousy, long-term commitment, marriage, children, expectations, nagging, insecurity, calling you constantly, needing to see you constantly, whining, etc.

Some men have "exclusive arrangements" with a few women at a time..which I guess makes them non-exclusive, eh? ;) Point is..some men prefer these relationships over girlfriends because there is less stress, anxiety, and/or annoyances that may accompany a "civie" girlfriend. Or perhaps they are married or have an SO, so this arrangement is most convenient.

In the end, you are still paying for the ladies time; and as such, are also paying her to come and go as fits into your lifestyle (and hers).

On the other hand, many men enjoy the variety of hobbying with several different ladies at any given time. That is also a person's prerogative. They do say "Variety is the spice of life".

The point is, there is no "right" or "wrong" way of playing in this sport. What works for 1 may not work for another; Overall, do what makes you happy. :)

Tyler

-- Modified on 8/22/2007 4:59:28 PM

Tyler,

You're absolutely correct - everyone is different.  I like simplicity these days, and have always strived for it.  In my married days, I hung out with a girl that was a lot of fun, wasn't in the mood to get divorced, so we went the "mistress" route where I essentially put her up and paid for everything (along with spending money.)  I don't want to go into too many details on the board here, but as simplistic as that may sound it didn't work out, and it was a real pain in the ass to extricate from.

To paraphrase another post I placed on another board here, paying for the time is great...but I do want it to be over.  If things click I'll be more than happy to pay for the time again.  And that makes me happy ;)

i wasn't questioning why different people have different preferences, i actually was suporting that reality of hobbying.  i was  interested in hearing from some guys why being exclusive with a provider would work for them....especially when they then feel they need to secretly contact other providers on the side...no judgement about WHY they might like this...just wanted to hear a male's perspective who might be in this situation as I find the situation unique and interesting;)

sometimes it's good to see from a man's point of view to expand my female one;)

xo
Clarke

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