References are always preferable from my point of view, because for the hobbyist they are easier to manage and less invasive.
The trouble with verification is that it can cause problems for certain of us. Those of us who work in smaller companies where everyone knows everyone else including your SO shouldn't be taken lightly. Many of us work with people who like to stick their noses in other people's business. Perhaps you have had co-workers like this in the past. That's why references are much preferred.
While its true that many who would give references are not accurate, the same could be said of reviewers. Some I have found to be very accurate--and some make me wonder what the other person was thinking.
Since there are a number of established and reliable providers whose input could be helpful, I don't understand how you can dismiss references out of hand based on a couple of bad experiences.
Like any other source of information, you have to consider the source.
There was a post on the National Board recently from an escort who had conducted a survey on the accuracy of references by sending a reference request to 85 escorts. She asked for a reference on a guy friend of hers who was actually gay and had never called an escort in his life. She received 39 responses, and 12 of them said, yes they had definitely seen the guy! That result speaks for itself about the accuracy of references! See link below if you want to read the whole deal!
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=172586&boardID=12&page=
That post got me thinking about the issue of references in general. I’ve always spoken up and made it know that I no longer ask for references and I don’t give references either. I have no use for the opinions of two or three other people I don’t know on a potential new client of mine. On the three occasions that I did give a reference, each time it backfired on me badly, including the time another escort called me asking for a reference when she was really checking up on her boyfriend! I DO require employment information along with other validation information, but references …no thank you!
How do the ladies in San Diego feel about asking for and giving references? Are references absolutely essential for a new client, or do you feel as I do and have no use for them?
Gentlemen, would you rather give escort references (if you have seen other escorts who will give you a reference), or are you ok with providing employment information for validation purposes? What are your feelings in general on the subject of provider references?
Suzanne
-- Modified on 2/22/2006 2:47:06 PM
I believe references is the best way to know we are safe from LE and the person we are going to meet is a real person in this business.
Recently I have hosted parties in the Las Vegas area for both hobbyist and providers (we have had guys and gals from over 20 cities attend). This has provided the opportunity to visit face to face with each other which gives you a much better feeling when calling for a reference; you will get an accurate response---whether provider or hobbyist---
It is my opinion that these references are only limited to the safety of each person. If you are looking for other information I am of the opinion that can only be attained by a visit with each other----Even though I have few reviews I most likely have met in excess of 150 providers and over 80 other hobbysist----I would not visit with anyone without a personal call to one of them regarding a future visit!
I am a firm believer that "Meet and Greet" parties are the greatest way to know you and I are safe----and it has been a fantastic tool for me---I am sure there are over 20 cities that I can visit and know there is someone that I can call and get an honest answer regarding who I should see!
Please....the majority of the men in this "hobby," are looking for a stress free fun time and then back to reality. Only a freak like you would want to get together over wine and cheese and compare notes...
References? Seems like this site works just fine and spares us from having to see you.....or smell you for that matter.
Good luck with that.
Thanks for your intelligent comments and remarks----I tried to find other posts from you to see if you have contributed in the past but nothing came up!
Hope you can contribute something of value again!
-- Modified on 2/23/2006 4:43:47 PM
your efforts are truly appreciated by providers and hobbiests alike. I hope we have an opportunity to shake hands at one of the "meet & greets".
NiceGuy
I've found that a provider who appreciates a hobbyist will represent him in goodfaith to others. (I'll even ask first if the provider would offer that option). Still, is it asking much of a new date if she would call a well reviewed provider as a previous source?
Meanwhile, count me among those who cannot possibly allow a ferreting of info at work. It's not so simple as providers may think, especially in a small office enviornment. As a result, some of these higher end girls who insist on such info may not know it, but they do eliminate themselves from considerations. For example, I can afford their time, but certainly won't risk even a hint of their inqiry at work, so I don't call and look to others instead.
My sentiments exactly. Providers and hobbyists both take some risks, but as much as I would like providers to feel comfortable, I will eliminate those whose screening method puts me at risk. It's just not worth it, because there are plenty of excellent providers who will verify references.
I can tell a girl knows as much about me as I do about her...when she asks me for full service reference.I must be the last reference a guy reaches for when he has to come up with three. 
It would be nice if the massage section ...really was just massage girls.
Oh, on the topic of massage....not only am I certified in Swedish style, I will be certified in Thai Thereapy in April.
For those of you who care if I am educated: Assoc. of Science, Nutrition. I KISS VERY VERY WELL and have a big toy box
There are two basic types of meet and greets. One type of meet and greet is where it is announced on a public board and everyone who wants to come just asks for the meeting place.
The second type is by invitation only and is a situation where you are only invited if you are known by one or more of the other participants.
The first type allows everybody to attend but you need to be more cautious because you might be talking to LE. The second type allows you to interract with people who are probably not LE because in most cases each guy has seen at least one provider and each provider has seen at least one of the gentlemen at the party as a client.
In either type of scenario the gentlemen get to meet ladies they might want to see and ladies get to meet prospective clients in an environment that might alleviate some of their security concerns.
In general I think that meet and greets have been fairly successful.
I think they are very important as well. Am I surprised girls say they saw people they didn't. Not at all. I don't even weigh or except some porviders as referrals. If they arent well know or reliable. In my opinion it still goes back to your gut. The problem I ran into that shocked me. Is the number of girls who do quanity and therefore don't even really rememeber who they were with. This is of no help whether the are high profile or not. Because they arent sure.
As far as, PokerGent. I do think "meet and greets" are nice, but not realistic for all. I've been to a few and everyone has fun. Many people at a professional level arent going to want and get that involoved, or be that known though. I think the old standard always remians true, " Go with your gut".
I personally have a problem with seeing new clients unless they know a mutual friend (provider, or hobbiest) because of my need to be discreet. I love providing services, but this is not my career. I have 2 others.
I recently attended a party in AZ & had the opportunity 2 meet several providers & clients. WOW!! I shouldn't have missed POKERGENT'S in LV. (You can spank me later, DADDY!)
** What a great chance to get to know people in our industry & weed out fakes. Now, I can call my friends who I know personally 2 verify if the client is SOLID!! WONDERFUL
-- Modified on 2/23/2006 1:49:20 PM
Unfortunatly this is the nature of the beast. As a hobbyist I am nervous about giving out my place of employment just as the provider is nervous about a stranger. Gut feelings and cautiousness are about the only way for me.
-- Modified on 2/24/2006 2:15:51 PM
Personally, either method presents problems for someone like myself.
I'm self employed, so the work reference thing is right out.
My dabbling in this lovely little world is infrequent enough that there are few Ladies with whom I've built a solid enough relationship for a provider reference would be worth the electron's to transmit it. When I do they tend to do things like retire (Sedona) or move away(Jenni of SD now AZ).
Honestly, this issue is one of the reasons I don't partake of our hobby more often. I know I'm a safe (all connotations)guy to spend time with, but the effort of convincing someone else often seems too daunting. Not to mention a certain fear of rejection issue. To paraphrase a Bill Murray Line from Ghostbusters, " Aw, I don't need this, there are woman all over San Diego standing in line to tell me NO." ;-D
What's a self employed, horny guy like me to do!
RJAGOODWITCH.
Ms. Suzanne, one of my favorite topics, references - most ladies unfortunately do not screen at all! How they get by, I just do not know. I would prefer to be grilled by a lady than to be let in the front door without any questions at all. The hard part for us dudes is in trying to find ladies who will give references. It's a bit awkward to ask and sometimes the logistics just don't work out if phone calls are not returned, etc. A lot more planning is required on all sides if references are included, so usually only high-end ladies and their high-end gents play that game. I hadn't read that thread, thanks for sharing, and be safe! xo, fahrkle
References are always preferable from my point of view, because for the hobbyist they are easier to manage and less invasive.
The trouble with verification is that it can cause problems for certain of us. Those of us who work in smaller companies where everyone knows everyone else including your SO shouldn't be taken lightly. Many of us work with people who like to stick their noses in other people's business. Perhaps you have had co-workers like this in the past. That's why references are much preferred.
While its true that many who would give references are not accurate, the same could be said of reviewers. Some I have found to be very accurate--and some make me wonder what the other person was thinking.
Since there are a number of established and reliable providers whose input could be helpful, I don't understand how you can dismiss references out of hand based on a couple of bad experiences.
Like any other source of information, you have to consider the source.
One of the main reasons I ask the question about references on this board is because I do seem to be in the minority with my negative opinions. Your opinion is just the type of feedback I was looking for and the issue of working for a small company is certainly valid. I think it would be ok if a potential client came back to me and talked about working in a small company where everyone knows everyone else and instead, offered me 2 or 3 references from well-known reliable escorts. However, I might still have just a little lingering doubt... particularly if thos 2 escorts lived on the other side of the country and I wasn't familiar with them or the TER board where they lived.
As an example, imagine that I'm an escort from New York who has announced her visit to SD on this board. Then imagine that the potential client in SD gave me as references the names of two of the LE decoys currently listed as escorts on TER. There's a good possibility that a New York escort would not know the two references were LE, unless she had read every word posted on this board for the past year! I guess my cautious attitude comes from knowing that it will only takes one mistake to get busted and no one appointment is the risk!
kisses
Suzanne
Caution, in proportion is a very good thing. I appreciate careful people. In your example of the visiting escort, when you get those two or three references it can be helpful if, as you say they are "well known or reliable."
If they are well reviewed ... say they have 30 and 65 reviews, respectively, over a long period of time it isn't very likely they are LE decoys.
If the hobbyist has posted a number of reviews of "well known and reliable" escorts in his area and from other cities, the chances he is LE is also very low.
It's impossible to totally eliminate risk, but minimizing it is just common sense. Using a variety of screening methods to fit the situation along with common sense, I think is your best bet.