I have noticed increase in the "us against them" mentality here on the board. I hate to say it but it is the thing I hate about this business the most. More than LE, more than the inconsistency, even more than the way it infringes on my ability to have a relationship. It just sucks ass and not in the good way. The "us against them" mentality quite frankly is NOT SEXY. So as a frustrated and sometimes late provider I making the following suggestions so that others may benefit if possible.
Suggestions for the hobbyists

For maximum enjoyment and minimized frustration.
 when contacting us please realize you may need to leave a message. Please realize the message needs to be clear and you need to tell us when, where and past which you can no longer be reached if you want a call back any time then tell us or alot of us won't call you back. following up with an e-mail is fabulous and it helps us to remember better who you are should we not be able to hook up right away.

If we have a webpage READ IT. Going back and forth with guys asking me one line questions or requesting a change in policy by me without even a miniscule of additional information so that we may make an informed decision.

When calling us don't act like you are someone we know or say "whats up babe" when contacting us for the first time...it's rude, bad phone etiquette, and it is really annoying...annoying is NOT SEXY.

Don't ask "are you into fetishes?" this is like asking "do you like food?" fetishes range from liking a provider to wear a pair of stockings to having nasty things done to you with a toilet brush...think about it.

If you have specifics that you require in order to enjoy yourself use the appropriate resources and do not ask a provider things that you can find out for yourself and that put her in a compromising posititon.

DONT LIE ABOUT YOUR NAME I cannot stress this enough . If you wish to remain anonymous there are some escort services that do not mind because they send Ray Ray the beat down man with every one of their girls. There are incall places for massage and mexico as well...independednt ladies are vulnerable to all kinds of things and if a provider has no concern for her safety you should be very concerned for yours...lying IS NOT SEXXY.

Realize that this is an intimate service we are providing and that knowing the limitations and expectations ahead of time is always best but not always possible. I for one do not have a blanket policy on certain activities. At the risk of being highly unpopular for saying this, that is just plain stupid. Risk factors can change from day to day, client to client. I can tell you that there are things I have done that had a client feeling like the luckiest man in the world because my reviews did not state that they were an option. If a hobbyist is too stupid to understand why or simply unable to empathize with my need to protect myself then I don't want to meet him anyway.

Give a number for her to call you incase she may be running late. The number of problems solved by this one thing alone is phenomenal. realize that alo of us are juggling several things and tend to be less than punctual. If we are late when we get there don't be a dick to us. Yes you are validated in being upset but your purpose will not be better served by berrating us simply saying that you were dissapointed by it and possibly having us do our best to make it up to you will. I know that I have never been late when I was not willing to do everything possible to make it up to the guy for wasting his time. I have however turned right around and walked out when yelled at for it and being told I was some how mentally deficient or malicious by being tardy. I might owe ya one but I am not gonna degrade myself to do it. Saving you the money by not staying is the best I can do at that point.
A good client of mine always gives himself a half hour window because we are so often late. If he has a tight schedule he lets the girl know ahead of time. He said that he had received some very good and discounted quickies for being understanding about tardiness as well.

if casual is ok it can save me up to a half hour...also don't make us do our hair if you intend on asking us to jump into a jacuzzi or shower with you. letting her know you would like water ops is just polite and considerate to her and to any hobbyist that may be seeing her afterwards.

If you are concerned about your giving out your information to providers then try looking for a few things to ensure the info you give is not used against you.
A provider that is available 24/7 is a full time escort...she usually has no other comittments and has to maximize her numbers to make up for her lack of regulars and scandalous ways.

A well researched appointment with a reviewed and respected provider will pay off in the long run if you are hesitant to give out too much info. Do it once with a lady that will provide you a reference and has enough of a life of her own that not only do you not have to worry about her extorting you, she actually has alot to lose as well.

Incall providers that work from home are not a threat...give them what they need to feel safe and stop worrying so much.
If a lady has her own credit card account and you would like to use a card when paying but have concerns about it then either figure out if you are willing to risk it and make a decision. Being accused of dishonesty when you are not dishonest is NOT SEXXY
Before you freak out about what information she is asking for  you should see what info is easily found about you with a simple google search of your e-mail address and phone number. I have had guys give me a really hard time over simple info that I could get PLUS all kinds of other information just by plugging the e-mail he used or phone number into the mother of all search engines.

If there is something  you would enjoy or something you woudl like done differently once your appointment has begun SPEAK UP!
Passive agressive behavior is for pussies and writing a bad review on a lady because you did not do your part to make your desires known is  pathetic. Take an active roll in your experience and you will be rewarded for it.

And finally, if you're a BIG guy bring your own.nothing ruins the mood more than a tourniquet fit or fear of cooties.
Suggestions for providers to come...right now I'm late

These are all reasonable suggestions for us hobbyists. Eloquently stated.

I wholeheartedly agree. This is, after all, a joint venture.

Perhaps your diatribe should be more accurately titled "Ginger Vents".  Although I am sure that many of your comments are valid, IMHO I believe your somewhat condescending tone actually does more to foster the us against them mentality than eliminate it.  I have no problem with you venting.  Just call it venting.  Making suggestions and venting are not the same.  

And before all the ladies and gentlemen on this board flame me just think of what your reaction would be if I as a hobbyist wrote a list of everything I have seen providers do wrong over the years and referred to them as suggestions for providers.  





-- Modified on 3/29/2003 2:42:44 AM

Actually stumpy, I agree with you. I was also not fond of at least 1 blanket statement.

Yes, this does seem a lot like venting. Had a bad day? BTW, why did you not include your web address. Ashamed of this post and wish to do what you do not want your clients to do.....remain nameless???

Although new to the "hobby" after a long absence, even I recognize Ginger. She's one of San diego's premiere providers.
While her vernacular may seem somewhat overbearing to some, she makes some very good points. I've made a few mistakes along the way making my way back to this place. I only wish that she had "vented" month's ago. It probably would have saved me time,. aggrevation and embarrassment...!

You just turned me off to you forever!

way you go ginger girl give'm hell . . .

Perhaps Ginger's comment make some sense from her perspective. However.....

My issue is that the hobbyist need security as much as providers.  The providers don't give us their name and address.  Why should I gave out mine? They use a "nom ge guerre" (a handle) why can't the hobbyst do the same. We use a username on TER.

Why is it not a two way street as opposed to one way? I tried to see Ginger once and only wanted to give her $$$$$ for some of her time.  I failed her security criterias. It seemed that she was stressed out and wanted me to feel the same.   I moved on to friendlier pastures.

ginger, u need a break from this. you r going apeshit about it.

Stumpy, Coyote,...yes I am venting ,...in fact as Dennis Miller would say, "I don't mean to go off on a rant here"... As far as not titling my post correctly and how i would feel if you listed your suggestions for providers, thats the attitude i'm talkin bout right there. I clearly stated that I intended to list my suggestions for providers as well but simply didn't because I was late. Alot of providers are just as guilty of this negative shitty kind of attitude as hobbyist are. I think any kind of bad attitude that is the result of short sighted self absorbed thinking that only serves to foster resentment between provider and hobbyist sucks...and not in the good way.

The reason I posted this yesterday was not because i needed to vent at that particular moment, it was because I am ast the point of caring what my words here will do to my business. There are alot of really great men out there that like what I have to say and are just as tired of dealing with the Assclowns of the world as Iam. Those are the men I am willing to see and they know who they are. You may not like me or agree with me and that is just fine and dandy. I am at a point where greed and necessity just cant drive me anymore, and admittedly I have other things going so that I have the luxury of telling ya how I feel.

This also serves to eliminate the hassle of having to deal with those that are not my cup of tea either. Sort of a unique prescreening tool if you will. For those men out there that have met me and enjoyed my company I have notice a common quality to them. They are all intelligent, rational, love women and have a good sense of humour. Those that are like wise and have yet to meet me will not be put off by this at all.

After breakfast I'll post my "suggestions" for providers cause some of them are way the hell out in la la land as well. I mean really if you don't even respect the men you're seeing or like being sexual then do yourself and everone a favor and get out.

If STUMPY and coyote think I am just adding this to cover my ass then go and look up the Posts by Claire de Pense.....

now i am going to get me some grub.

two way street would be fabulous in an ideal world but we don't live in one. Hobbying is not a right it is a privledge. If you don't like a lady's policy find another and quit your damn bitching. not stressed at all in fact after the excellent company I enjoyed last night I am feeling pretty damn relaxed. It just seems that so many have forgotten that this is supposed to be about pleasure and fun.

Bigniplover be as turned off as you like. In fact based on your handle alone I would not care to see you. I am neither a nip nor do I think calling an asian one is funny, cute, or witty.

2masc you Lied about your name and misspelled your handle here in your e-mail. in fact the person you used as a reference who was aware of this and informed me that you were o.k. was the only reason you ended up being able to see some of the ladies you did and now with their references probably won't have to worry about this matter again. I was the one that let them know after being contacted because they thought you were LE that you were in fact o.k. I just wasn't interested in booking with you after the charade.

-- Modified on 3/29/2003 10:41:16 AM

Ginger does seem a little spun up, but she gives good advice, which is mostly just good common sense! But, I believe your right too, but for obvious reasons (to many to site) it will never be a two way street!(product & demand)
I too, once tried to set something up with Ginger and didn't meet her criteria, who knows why! I was completely honest as I am with all the girls, I have nothing to hide! But she made me feel as if I were some kinda weirdo-loser for wasting her time. So I moved to 'Friendlier Pastures' and now I have a 'regular' and I am very, very HAPPY!

The attorney "levendi", one of the most knowledgable and helpful participants on these Boards who no long posts, made it a rule never to give out his personal identifiers to escorts. Although this may have limited the range of escorts he saw, levendi never saw this as a real problem.

I guess it's always got to be Viva La Difference. True enough, how boring things would be if we all felt the same about issues. But, this is a discussion board which (like it or not) allows for the expression of one's opinions (like it or not). I sometimes get a kick out of reading the attempts to surpress some opinions expressed, as if there are some self-rightous authorities that may be singularly focused and wrapped around their computers and overly indulgent with their pompous presence on the board, and have nothing else to do in their lives (a lot of grumpy old farts out ther, huh?). Venting is also fine too. So What! Not a matter of major concern to many others. Go ahead and vent! Oops excuse me! Anyway, I appreciate Ginger's opinions on the matter and will definately make sure I behave like a gentleman.

-- Modified on 3/29/2003 11:33:23 AM

Well damn then I owe the man an apology...sorry nipple man for thinking you were a bigot. Just out of curiosity is it the size of the aereola or the extension of the nile erection that gets you going?

by personal indentifiers do you mean his handle here? Levendi being a well known hobbyist probably can provide good references and I am sure has little need to give alot of information about himself. It was one of the things  I mentioned in my suggestion. 2masc volunteered his handle which is odd as most don't...LE sometimes however does to try and give us a false sense of security and they have in the past used very similar names as the well known posters here to try and fool us...I have one very good client that hasn't had to do more than write a lady and give a list of very well known and respected providers for the new escort to contact. I would much rather have a guy give me two really good references then his personal information anyway. It's easier for the both of us and eliminates the problem of having his info on me or on my computer should it fall into the wrong hands and i haven't had the chance to delete it and shred my temp files yet.

Ginger raised some valid issues, from her perspective and experiences as a provider.

Does she speak for everyone, I don't know and I don't care. The points she raised were interesting and may be applicable to other providers as well.

For those of you (hobbyist-wise) who agree with her-fine, you agree and you might be able to connect with her.

If you DON'T agree, or you were put off by what she said, again fine, just don't try and contact her. From her post, I gather she wouldn't want to see you anyway.

Either way, I see this threaturning into a pointless discussion that benefits nobody, and will only further enflame both sides.

For all concerned, let it rest and move on. I use the term ALL and that includes both providers and hobbyists, as well as any casual readers.

From my perspective, I'm also tired of seeing the same "debates" about screening, references, safety, etc. TER posters have beaten these subjects beyond death.

Thanks and now we resume normal programming.

THE mod!

Yes you are right most of what I suggested is indeed just common sense. In spite of that the things I mentioned are so often the factors in making then not work out or turn out badly I cannot even begin to tell you. These suggestions were not based on just my own experiences either. I have had alot of behind the phones exerience booking for other ladies and I frequently network with other providers so that we can exchange ideas on how to make this easier and more pleasurable for everyone.

I am a writer and I spend alot of time expressing thoughts and feelings on things... doing so here on this topic doesn't make me spun. I think that it is just off putting because providers do not usually rant about issues like these because it really does cause alot of negative reactions...the why of that is dierectly realted IMHO to the "us against them" mentality that seems to be an ongoing and increasing theme in this communtiy.
I also have some time on my hands right now and I am bored. Writing on message boards is a bit of a hobby of mine and this is a topic I know quite a bit about so I posted.
Sorry you felt like a loser when you tried to book. Not sure who you are or what the problem was but the typical reasons someone doesn't work out other than acting like a jerk on the phone, which you don't sound like you are, are these.

I cannot verify that you are not someone who could cause me trouble. I have more ways of doing this than most and I am always willing to work with someone. The problem often is that the person doesn't work with me. the objective is to prove what you do not do. If I have no knowledge of your life and you cannot or will not have your employment checked then often you will need to work with me to find an alternative.
References provided don't remember you or even worse give you a bad reference...it does happen.
When I call or e-mail back to tell the client I am havng difficulty screening his info the ball is now in their court. If they do not re contact there is nothing left for me to do.

The number one reason appointments don't get booked is do to solicitation or questions regarding illegal activity.

Anyway not booking with me was a good thing as you met your regular and are Happy with her and I am happy for you.

Apology accepted.  Re your question, either.  Both together blow me away!

Thank you!  In fact I love Asian women for this very reason.  90% of my hobby is at AMPs.

Ginger stuck her neck out for all of us  and I really appreciate her doing that. When I originally read the post I didn't miss the "more for providers to come". I beleive she intends to "vent" about some of the mistakes we make as well (also appreciated).

I really like the saying "seek first to understand than to be understood" and I think it really applies to this thread. Everyone should atleast try to understand what the other person must go through .... has to lose ....etc.

Just my opinion...have a great weekend everyone!

I rarely go visit the SD discussion board anymore, and am glad that I happened to see this thread.
There was some confusion about your alias, email address, etc in some correspondence and Ginger took some time to research to get some clarity. Alas, she discovered what the discrepancy was and BECAUSE of this, I had the wonderful opportunity to meet you!
I very much owed my appreciation for this to Ginger and were it not for her, we wouldn't have met.
I would see you again, and I would also gladly be a reference for you, and again, I owe this to Ginger.

Warmest regards,
Sedona

I, for one, greatly appreciate Ginger's post. To understand the person and the purpose of her post is to understand that it is meant for the greater good. Ginger is one of the finest Providers in SD and many of us owe her a lot.
The idea is to 'be on the same page' and to have an understanding of the expectations from both parties, of the experience. I have long desired, and will probably see some day on NE, an article of what should be expected. Both sides need to have some sort of Policy and Procedure 'manual' to refer to -some standardization. This would greatly help both sides particularly when they are 'new'.
Thank you Ginger, as always, for being the Lady that you are. If I were a Hobbyist, you'd be my Regular..

Love you all,
Sedona

It's all common politeness that should be basic behaviour for everybody. What's unfortunate is that Ginger had to speak up about it at all.

I admire your courage. This was a tough post, need to be said, and you said it well.