LAST CHILD SUPPORT CHECK
   
Today is my daughters 18th birthday.......

I'm so glad that this is my last child support payment.

Month after month, year after year, those payments!

I called my baby girl to come over to my house, and
when she got there, I said to her, "Baby girl, I want
you to take this last check over to your Mama's house;
you tell her that this is the last check she's ever going
to get from me, then I want you to come back here and
tell me the _expression she had on her face."

So my baby girl took the check over to her.  I was so
anxious to hear what the witch had to say and what
she looked like.

As my baby girl walked though the door, I said, "Well
now .. what did she have to say?"

"She told me to tell you that you ain't my Daddy."

He, he, he.............. :P

Much too close to home.  

You might be shocked at the number of men (especially in california) who are just *this* close to an AK47 and a tall building over the child support they pay.

A year and a half ago, my ex-wife quit her job, now refuses to work (she is an industrial engineer by trade, and was earning more than me when she quit) and is actively pursuing more child support because she has no income.  There is the chance she'll get it.  If the shoe were on the other foot, you can bet there'd be a court order that instructed me to work at a job that maximized my earning potential.

And why did we divorce?  HER infidelity.

Yoda

I thought it was pretty funny! Sorry if some took it too personally, should never take life too seriously, it is terminal after all. Thanks for the early morning laugh n smile jenni!

Re: Awwww, didn't mean to hurt feelings.........

But C'mon.  Not everyone's experience is the same.  I NEVER collected a dime.  I could have gotten a pittance here or there, but then I would have had to grovel, pay for a hearing, pay for the supeona, the list goes on and on.  I never bothered, nor did ever I collect welfare.  I guess that is why I found this amusing.  And I still do find it amusing....

I did realize it might not be "politically" correct, but then thought what the hey.......

It really wasn't personal,

Jenni

-- Modified on 4/27/2004 4:05:24 PM

WEll I must say......... I have yet to receive any support for 4 children nor will I ever. I do think it is funny!

guys........ Jenny meant no harm,

kisses & licks.......
mara

I feel for you bro, I am 18 months away from my last child support check.
I dont have such a horrible payment, but I have a buddy with three kids and one from a previous relationship.
He pays $$$$$(yes that was five dollar signs, yet his base salary is less than 50k(he works alot of OT, but only to pay the child support).
I would like to know how the state came up with that number.
It has long been my opinion that if the difference in income is that great then the child is better off living with the father and the mother should pay child support.
I know there are a few single mothers here and I run the risk of pissing them off.
But in my experience, it doesn't matter how involved how much money you send with little to no say in how its spent or how your child is raised, the time you stand your ground and say  NO she doesn't need 2  prom dresses you are a no good, worthless deadbeat dad.



-- Modified on 4/27/2004 10:42:46 PM

If you aren't collecting child support then this wouldn't be funny either. What am I not getting in the humor???
~Carlee

Jenni, I thought it was funny but I get along with my ex so it was no big deal.  I can understand how some guys would not like it though.

We know that rape is about males inflicting their will on the victim, a simple yet brutal demonstration of power.

To a guy who went through a bad divorce, and got hosed in the settlement, by their ex-wife, this is felt to be essentially the same thing, only administered by the legal system to their financial well being, as opposed to physically.  

Note, this is NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION, having never been divorced myself.  But I know enough guys who HAVE expressed this sentiment to me.

What I am saying is, they will not, no way, EVER find this subject to be funny, just like a rape victim will not ever find jokes about that to be funny.  I am frankly astonished thay you would think that it might be.

I wonder really if you just might have gotten a little chuckle if you would have been gathered around with some of your buddies.....I doubt you would have scolded them.......  

Some of you guys are sooooo rigid when a girl tells the same joke as a guy does.....

I am feeling soooooo ornery today!

Hmmmmph!

Jenni

You're more than welcum to grovel at my place anytime!

I think the sight of you on your knees would be awesome!

I've got my knee pads on..........

Jenni,

Not at all....I'd have scolded them, too.  Most of the guys I work with, and all my friends know what I've gone through because they've watched it happen, and seen how painful it can be.  Those who haven't watched a non-custodial parent deal with the financial burden levied on top of the emotional trauma of being separated from a child or children need to know, so I tell them.  

It probably wasn't fair to "blast" you for the joke, and I apologize if I hurt your feelings...but I have never met a man who was happy with his visitation arrangement.  Not once, ever.  

Yoda

Thanks, Max.

In my case, it was two kids and over $1100/month in support, which equated to 40% of my salary at the time...and she made more than me.  The state has a fairly complex formula for calculating support, and if my ex-wife wins the current battle, I'll end up paying her nearly $$$/month for the daughter who lives with ME.  That's right...support paid to the non-custodial parent who refuses to work.  

I do not begrudge my children their standard of living, but there ought to be a sanity check.  At the time of the court order, factoring in the support I paid her and her live-in boyfriend's income, my ex-wife's household disposable income was more than three and half times what mine was.

I've dated several single mothers who were shocked when they found out how much support my ex-wife gets...and wondered if the woman who was MY lawyer actually worked for my ex-wife.

It sure as hell felt like the court worked for her.

Yoda

I know men who really rise to the occasion and are really there for thier children.  I respect them.  I am also empathetic to some situations men are in regarding visitation, extreme child support payments, and women who take advantage of that.  I do know all of that occurs.

And I have known plenty of men who didn't bother to visit or to pay, and there are those who if they really did have the largest burden of raising the children would happily get real comfortable with thier visitation situation....trust that!

I know a young woman who is on the Dean's list in College now, who did not get her High School Graduation photos taken.. due to lack of funds and a single Mom's income could not swing it.  Her father was at her graduation as though he did something, but never gave a dime.  And that little girl doesn't whine.

You are not the only person who suffers....lighten up!

As I said, it was a joke, not personal....

Hugzzzzzzz for for the hurt feelers out there.....

Relax.........  

Jenni

-- Modified on 4/27/2004 6:20:22 PM

...both men and women. From an anecdotal standpoint I've heard
stories of both men and women being unfairly treated by the legal system in matters of custody, child support, visitation rights and a whole host of associated issues.

Often times it may come down to who has the best lawyer rather than a balanced, rational, logical settlement. If you are the one who has really gotten the shaft in this process it is somewhat difficult to keep that in perspective. I think there is a natural tendency to become quite bitter about how this sort of thing plays out under those circumstances.

What I find truly troubling is how little two people can really "know" each other when they make the decision to "take that walk down the aisle". The divorce rate in this country only seems to bear that out. Of course once children become a part of the equation there is a certain responsibility that comes into play, even if the outcome of the divorce proceeding is far from even handed and fair. There are legal consequences that can be painful
and costly, emotionally and financially, for not "knowing" the person you decided to marry, the person with whom you brought children into this world.

I've seen this from both sides and even in cases where there may be a vastly higher "price" to be paid by one party or the other there is often plenty of blame to go around on both sides.
There are of course exceptions where one party or the other is truly willing to step up to the plate and make every effort to work things out in a fair and balanced way, perhaps even make a determined effort to make the marriage work and end up getting totally screwed in the process.

I've read a number of MY2's post and he has often struck me as someone who measures his words, carefully considers what he chooses to say before saying it. Having said that I can to some extent understand how this might "touch a nerve". The point to remember is that it was not personally directed at anyone in particular.

I happen to know Jenni perhaps a bit better than some and I know a little about what she has had to deal with in this arena of divorce. She perhaps as much as many would have every right to be bitter about how divorce has treated her. I don't really see that bitterness, perhaps it is there on some level but it is not readily apparent to me. She doesn't seem to let it control her life. Beyond that of course is the point about just who often bears the burden of raising children.
Exceptions certainly, but far more often than not single parent households are headed by women.

This was a joke, NOT PC enough for some perhaps, but a joke nonetheless and it should be seen as such.

Life is difficult enough as it is, so yes time to lighten up.

Jenni now about those cute knees...oh that's for another time



-- Modified on 4/27/2004 9:07:52 PM

-- Modified on 4/28/2004 6:03:55 AM

I read all of the thread up to this point. After several years as a marriage counselor, divorced once myself, then being widowed by my second wife, and now facing marriage again for the third time...I never quit on marriage in my life! Yet, sadly, this will be my third.

I found that most ex-husbands see child support as what they have to pay to see thier kids. In all honesty it is what the courts have stated is the bare minimum you MUST pay or face punishment (which rarely happens to a dead beat dad). Most single moms I know, even the one I am going to marry someday soon, barely get by and have to deal with a ex-husband who thinks he is doing the world a favor by paying his child support on time, and bitches about it all the way to the check book. Now I am going to raise his kids for him, and spend far more on his kids than he does. Why? Because its the right thing to do. Also, I always let the kids know that their dad is great and that I am not replacing him. Just makes no sense to me to be his enemy too.

If you are a dad without physical custody, and pay child support, just remember...your self-centered life ended when you got your now ex-wife pregnant. Just because you divorced her for whatever reasons, does not negate this fact. Those are your kids, forever. Just do what is right by them. BTW...I have two kids of my own, will have four when we get married.

But the guy she married paid $3600/mo.  Yeah, $1600 for each kid and $400 alimony.  Made me glad we didn't have any.

I'm like the female version of Yoda here with my story.

In my divorce, the ex got the 4500 sq foot house, two of the three cars, and the cabin.

We have 50-50 joint custody arrangement....yet I have to pay my ex over $2500 per month for support of the two kiddies.

I wanted the divorce because HE was unfaithful and the marriage was stifling....I had to pay the piper to get out.  

Boy, I could really feel sorry for myself if I don't stop, LOL, but really I'm just so happy to be free that almost any price is worth it.

Cute joke, though, Jenni.  

I am sure we could all tell some horrific war stories, now couldn't we............


-- Modified on 4/28/2004 2:31:55 AM

-- Modified on 4/28/2004 10:50:39 AM

I am grateful, really for my challenges........

And for the right to argue, he he.....

Muah!  Holy Moly, I am feeling so darned ornery today!  I am really grateful to be able to be a girl, and express myself...

-- Modified on 4/28/2004 2:34:46 AM

...that you are a girl than I am, and do I ever love the way you express yourself even in the most "nuanced" ways. Now that I'm having this visual I really must get up from the computer and get out the door to work before I "break" something vital.

Jenni, I like it when you are ornery

Damn Jenny, you just keep digging the hole deeper don't you...

Your apologies are without heart and meaning. You keep on making jokes and excuses rather than just apologize and be done with it.

You, are lacking class....

I don't think I have apologized really, as I said, didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings, but really if you are waiting for an apology well,you won't be seeing one.  It was a JOKE...

Everyone I have ever known has some things going on in thier lives that don't seem fair.  This little joke was not aimed at you or anyone else.  I have things in my life that I still get resentful over, or upset about, but then, I try to find some humor in it all, because resentment is a very crummy emotion.  And that isn't always easy.  And of course I fail here and there still.

It has taken me nine years to find the value in having gotten downsized, divorced and displaced after working at a career job and building a nice home.  Nothing I could do could save it.  My life sunk like the Titanic, and there was nothing I could do.  All of that because of sudden gross misbehavior from my ex, who had been a very steady guy for quite a few years.  It was shocking.  But now, in retrospect I have learned so much, gone so many other places, met so many people I would otherwise not have known.  I have met challenges I never thought I could overcome.  All the while, scared to death.  I still do not have the comfort I had myself in.  But I have so many other perspectives in life.  My daughter was well on her way to being quite spoiled.  Being thrown into a much, much lower income level forced her to get up and work much harder than she probably would have if things had come to her easier.  It wasn't fair, but it has been worth millions.

If you are a good father, then be proud of that.  Give yourself a nice big hug.......  


-- Modified on 4/28/2004 3:41:46 PM

It was just a freakin' joke.

Y'all are starting to take yourselves TOO SERIOUS!

than me for Jenni's sweet looking ass!!! It's the best, Babe!

Stay ornery, Sweet,...it keeps them all off balance.

If you are a dad without physical custody, and pay child support, just remember...your self-centered life ended when you got your now ex-wife pregnant. Just because you divorced her for whatever reasons, does not negate this fact.



Now thats a stupid stupid comment...
Jonny, about\over 70% of divorces are filed by the women. They are the ones leaving, quiting, and where applicable, taking the mans children away from him.
Don't assume that it's the men who are leaving.

SD STud said it best;

"What I am saying is, they will not, no way, EVER find this subject to be funny, just like a rape victim will not ever find jokes about that to be funny.  I am frankly astonished thay you would think that it might be."


Apologize for acting like an ass. For making insensitive comments. I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO CRACK A RAPE VICTIM JOKE JENNY. Go on you funny comedian, make light of that subject...

 

Well, I read all of the posts on this thread. I should get a medal! LOL. People, it was a freaking joke and a damn funny one at that. Hey, sometimes I hear politicians or actors make cracks about the NRA or guns in general. That is my hobby and I used to be a little offended, but kept it to myself. I then realized that it was nothing but a joke and not a personal attack. If some choose to wear their heart on their shoulders, so be it. I suggest sitting back, and thinking before taking it so seriously and ripping others for it. If you don't find it funny, then say so or say nothing at all. I doubt if all the blonde providers care for blonde lokes, but I am sure at least some of them still get a chuckle.
    Jenni, kepp those knee pads at the ready, your ass is the best, stay ornery and don't you dare apologize for a joke that was funny to many of us.

It was just a joke! It is like the crap on TV,...if you don't like it, then turn it off! You don't have to shit in your pants about it and trash Jenni over it. FWIW, Jenni does a lot of good on these boards and simply because she posts one joke that hits so many raw nerves here doesn't automatically make her the devil.  

Jeez, lighten up people! This is not fucking brain surgery going on here!

jenni told a joke which touched a nerve, and yoda expressed a reaction.

jenni, rather than accepting yoda's feelings, got defensive, ornery, and pushed back with: lighten up, chuckle, relax, accused him of being sexist (wouldn't scold a man), and said she would never apologize. [although none was asked for]

Funtime69 writes..."Now thats a stupid stupid comment...
Jonny, about\over 70% of divorces are filed by the women. They are the ones leaving, quiting, and where applicable, taking the mans children away from him.
Don't assume that it's the men who are leaving."

So, you obviously can't read...Where in what you said is your concern for the kids? You only speak about the ex-wife and the man...my exact point. I would guess the statistics for who files for the divorce is way over 70% women, but the reason is usually that the husband cheated. In my opinion...what does it matter who started it, those kids are YOURS, if you want to be remembered as a dad who did the minimum he had to...fine. But, dont get pissed off when your kid likes me more than you. I simply dont understand why idiots like yourself cant tell the difference between CHILD support and SPOUSAL support.

Yes, Jenni has a mighty fine ass and too many people got in a tizzy about her joke. End of story.

To some extent this has turned into a series of hot headed remarks and macho verbal posturing that has so distorted logic that it bears no resemblance to logic whatsoever.

Attempting to equate rape, or jokes about rape, to the original post is just ludicrous. I'll remind those who don't GET IT that rape is a violent, illegal, criminal act.

Those who think the legal system, courts, attorneys, etc have egregiously harmed men in the divorce process should remember that these actions and remedies stem from laws on the books. If you want to direct your anger somewhere then "get a clue" and direct it at your elected officials who write laws, at the family court system, at incompetent attorneys, just for starters. Become an advocate for reform of such laws if you think you have a case. Perhaps even take a serious introspective look at yourself and ask whether or not you bear at least some small semblance of responsibility for your plight, for the consequences that have come your way.

I'm not so naive as to think that it is easy to reform the legal system, not so naive as to be surprised that the legal system doesn't always get it right. However there is a DIFFERENCE between inequities in the legal system and a blatant and violent criminal act such as rape.

Some of what has been written here is pathetic drivel that has been offered up as "properly chastising" Jenni for her indiscretions. Nothing could be further from the truth. This in my view is no more than a sophomoric attempt by some to turn Jenni into a pariah as a means to stroke their own egos. Let's see: Funtime69 comes to mind when I say that.

Anyone who has been harmed in the legal process with respect to a divorce proceding has not had that situation altered one iota by the mere fact that a simple joke was posted on this board.

Get a life, understand where your anger comes from and try to deal with it in a useful and productive way to the extent possible.

Jenni is a good and decent person with alot going for her.
She has had her fair share, and then some, of the inequities that stem from a failed marriage. She has tried to deal with that as best she could.

As I tried to state earlier in this thread inequities in this area of civil law touch both men and women.

I would hope that we can get off of these personal attacks and recognize that this was a joke, nothing more, and not directed personally at anyone.





-- Modified on 4/29/2004 9:43:59 PM

-- Modified on 4/29/2004 9:57:42 PM

-- Modified on 4/29/2004 9:59:59 PM

-- Modified on 4/30/2004 5:36:55 AM

-- Modified on 4/30/2004 5:39:00 AM

-- Modified on 4/30/2004 3:43:56 PM

Wow Jonny, such vile bullshit!!

I would bet that women cheat every bit as much as men do. Maybe more. Quit posting stupid baseless assumptions...


Let's clear some things up; I am not a father. I base my opinions on what I have seen happen to my brother and many close friends.

In ALL CASES, the children are loved and cherished by their father in spite of the mothers antics.

In one case the father who had been paying for her first child by another man, was left by the women. She was so absorbed in her life, that she left BOTH KIDS behind with him, his own and the child of another relationship. Yes, the first dad perhaps was a creep by shirking his responsibilities, but the "loving" mother just bailed both children in her selfish state. So he is raising a child of his own and another, that maybe she should help pay for. For the record, she is gone, left the state, has paid nothing and made no contact with her children.

If she didn't want children, then don't risk having one by fucking liuke a rabbit...


This thread was abut a tasteless joke about child support. I have seen no mention about the welfare of the child before. Were just discussing the crude joke and how it is offensive...So excuse me if i appear to be lacking concern for children I havn't had yet...

A BIG FUCK YOU TO ALL!!!!

It started with a stupid joke, that i simply replied as tasteless.

Then as EOT explained; jenny kept right on being ornery. I replied that she was digging a deeper hole with her comments. That should of been it.

Sadly you ballless men come rushing to the whores defense and vilifying me as some asshole just because I stood up for men. Perhaps you should take some pride in yourselves as fathers or fathers to be. She could be joking about you ar a close friend.

Remember all you valliant heroes that are rushing to the little damsels's aid, THAT SHE WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU IF IT WERE NOT FOR $300 AN HOUR... Sheesh, you fools make it seem like she is this little innocent school girl, and big bad and mean Funtime69 is just ruthlessly bagging on her for no reason.

All it would of took is an apology for making a tasteless joke and I wouldn't have written a thing more. That is the reason I wrote "tasteless EOM". I didn't ant to push someonme around. But when they keep making an ass out of themselves, i had to speak up.

PS, save yourselves the time from posting "your the one making an ass out of yourself". Some of you are so predictable...

Actually, EOT wrote a pretty good summary, Blue, and while you make a very good point that Jenni's joke was not the same as a joke about rape (I disagreed with that myself, as I am a rape crisis advocate) perhaps a better analogy would be the telling of a blatantly misogynistic joke to a group of women.  There really isn't any harm done beyond a few ruffled feathers, but the joke is nonetheless in bad taste, considering the audience.

I do have a clue.  I have read the California Family Code Sections 4050 - 4076 regarding child support, and I do understand the law in this case.  Frankly, I strongly recommend that anyone, male or female, involved in a child custody case read the Code.  (I even sent the text to my ex-wife, who has apparently still NOT read it.)

Taken on the surface, the laws are in no way biased towards men or women.  The courts, however, can and do take liberties.  For example, guideline support is calculated by the formula contained in CFC Section 4055, based on the income and expenses reported by both parties.  There is a tremendous amount of leeway afforded in the reporting.  As an example, one or both parties may reside with a companion who shares their expenses but whose income is not included in the reporting, thereby increasing that party's net household income without penalty.  That's not an inequity, it's just a loophole, and the courts openly allow it.

As for my responsibility for my "plight" (thanks for that), I do assume responsibility for it, and have from the start.  I owned up to my part in the Springer-est-ce-que episode ten years ago.  Sometimes, responsibility and consequence are disproportionate...and that's just the way things go.  Over the years, I've learned how to process my anger in healthy ways, and have "moved on" more times than I can count.  However, until my children are over the age of 18, I'll still be vulnerable, and I'll always be sensitive to the fact that there was no refuge for me in the California Family Court.

My personal situation is undoubtedly similar to that of many men, and for whatever reason, perhaps to that of a disproportionate number of men involved in this hobby, or game, as it's been called.  

My initial response to Jenni's joke was not a personal attack, nor was I angry when I wrote it.  I did not take the joke personally, but (as it turns out) inadvisedly used my own experience to illustrate my point.  As EOT pointed out, I did not ask for an apology.  Perhaps my words were poorly chosen, but my intent was to show that, given the audience, her joke was in poor taste.

I sincerely hope that the controversy I seem to have had a part in starting will not affect Jenni's business and that any gentlemen reading this series of posts who might have been inclined to see her will still do so.  

Yoda

...and a tall building? Such comments tend to underscore and "legitimize" violence against women as an option in the minds of "some" men. Did I take your comment as personally directed at Jenni? No, I did not. I read your comment in the context in which it was presented. Those are not words I would have chosen to try and make a point, although I understand that such men are very likely out there. Do I think that you personally would resort to such violence because you made this comment in your post?
No, I do not.

I'm trying to make a subtle point here (perhaps not very effectively) about how the written word can be misinterpreted

A blatantly misogynistic joke told to a group of women(by a man) would certainly be in poor taste, obviously since that is a single gender audience. I understand that TER is primarily here for men but the women are openly invited to participate and I consider that a good thing. This is not a single gender audience so I would disagree that Jenni's joke should be held to the same level of scrutiny.

As for inequities in the law, or a loophole that permits the courts discretion in how a remedy is applied, I consider that more a matter of semantics than substance. If the law is written in such a way that it permits such a loophole then perhaps the law needs to be revisited.

My comment about taking some responsibility for one's plight was tempered in the way it was worded and was intended as a general comment, not specifically directed at you or anyone else.

As for EOT's summary I am in agreement with his/her first sentence. Where I part ways with EOT is over the issue of an apology. The issue of an apology became somewhat confused over the course of this thread. I recognize that you did not ask for an apology but ft69 certainly seemed to be asking, even demanding
an apology without merit in my view.

Finally with respect to "touching a nerve" and the rape joke analogy I would offer a link to a previous post I made to the National board months ago:

http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/viewmsg.asp?BoardID=12&SortBy=DateCreated%20desc&SearchType=1&Author=Blue672&DayFrom=300&DayTo=100&Submit=Submit&MessageID=59613

Those who care to read it can do so. The most relevant paragraph is perhaps the next to last.



-- Modified on 5/2/2004 8:35:55 AM

-- Modified on 5/2/2004 8:40:30 AM

-- Modified on 5/2/2004 12:32:55 PM

...DEEPER? Take a look in the mirror and you'll find your answer,
INSTANTANEOUSLY! Let's see, that would be YOU ft, just in case, in your self delusional state, you don't recognize yourself.

Jenni doesn't need me to validate her good character or common decency, she's quite capable in her own right. Furthermore you are in no position to define her by any stretch of the imagination.

You however display the tendencies and bear the attributes of a closeted misogynist (look it up, it's in the dictionary) who is all too prone to awkwardly reveal his "true colors" as evidenced by the "rants" you have posted in this thread.

Your vain attempts to cloak your misogyny in the clothes of an ethical supremicist is so transparent that it is pathetic.

Perhaps the only worthwhile point you have made to the rest of us
is "save yourself the time of posting" but certainly NOT for the reason you stated.

Let's just say in the "spirit of the moment" I felt compelled.

Predictable! Mirror time for YOU ft, take your misogynist's blinders off.



-- Modified on 5/2/2004 11:59:01 AM

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-- Modified on 5/2/2004 12:02:10 PM

-- Modified on 5/2/2004 12:42:55 PM

Yoda, your posts seemed appropriate to me and I didn't think it seemed like you were being over sensitive, just calmly and rationally sharing another POV.  That's part of what I come to these boards seeking.  Posts that help me understand and perhaps be more sensitive to my fellow man are always appreciated. I didn't think you were chastising Jenny but was sorry to see you get some grief for your post.

I thank you for sharing your experience with this issue Yoda and thank Jenny for sharing the joke that sparked this informative discussion.  

I miss that sense of humor, among other things.  Wish I was back in San Diego so I could see you again.  Stay cool.  Tell Bexy I said hi.

Thank you, O Lily June!