Extreme Associates (Rob Black & Lizzie Borden) Indicted

(from National Board)


 http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2392401/detail.html


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It's nearing E(l/r)ection time, folks!!  

And so it begins. The religious right (wrong) has started to tell us what is and what is not obscene. This is disgusting. I really hope that the DOJ loses all these cases. That the adult industry accepts no plea deals.

Extreme has extremely brutal videos, depicting rape scenes and other violence toward woman. The charges against them are not surprising. Max Hardcore, also known for brutal videos, faced similar charges about a year ago. I doubt mainstream porn companies have much to worry about.

I think you're being too hard on Ashcroft. Obviously, he must have credible evidence that Osama bin Ladin (oops, I mean Saddam Hussein) must be hiding out on San Fernando Valley porn sets.

Not in the short term, but this can be constured as the first step in the chiseling away of the free speech of the porn business.  It's a common tactic to make the small gains, no one seems to quibble at the small decisions, but when you take the sum of all these setabacks, quite a big change can take place over time.  Give Bush & Ashcroft another 4 years and it will continue.

But that's what government is supposed to do - regulate social
behavior for the wellbeing of its citizens.

Nobody likes to be restricted, but let's face it - there is
acceptable and unacceptable behavior. This applies to all things,
even to film. Government has to set guidelines, and enforce them.

Obviously there's a fringe industry within the adult film
business that makes money by pushing harder and harder (riskier)
material. This is the only way they can distinguish their
product from others - and thus stay in business.

So how far does it have to go before everyone agrees on what is
and is not obscene?

In mainstream movies, there is a ratings board that determines
which movies are PG and which are R. This is regulated for the
entertainment and wellbeing of the society at large. You don't
want your five-year-old traumatized if you watch the wrong film.

The adult industry is not regulated in this same way, but in
some respects it should. If it doesn't regulate itself, the
government will do it for them.

and EA Inc. can be charged $50Mil in punitive fees (enough to put them out of bizness)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2621875a12,00.html

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frankly, Lizzie and Rob (and their "sadist-in-training" protege Luciano) need a little "nudge" reminder that they are peddling their wares in and to a puritanical society ... funny thing is, the tripe they knock off every month is laughably "mild" in other parts of the world (notably Japan and Germany) ... it's here in the Dubya/Ashcroft "God's Country" that it's such a big deal (apparently)

as sick as they, Max and other wannabes are, i sure don't want to see this thing go through ... if it did, it would be pretty scary

heck, give 'em an inch and they'll soon come after us GFE/PSE addicts!  LOL

You have to view this in the broader context of these additional points:

- Item: On orders from Ashcroft, DOJ spent $8K to drape the "naked" female statues of justice.

- Item: At the same time an Al Qaida cell in San Diego was hatching it's plot to attack the WTC/Pentagon on 9/11/2001, IRS and FBI along with local police were storming a local massage parlor and arresting the girls on felony charges. Possibly they thought Osama Bin Ladin was hiding under their skirts.

- Item: Major federal grand jury investigation in San Diego of political contributions to the local council by owners of strip clubs. So, I guess it's OK for the Ken Lays to contribute millions to the GOP while defrauding everyone else of billions and go off (apparently) unprosecuted, just as long as we close down those sleazy strip clubs.

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think Ashcroft & Co. won't try to close down this little playpen.

That's a dangerous line of thinking... the right wing establishment when in power, all over the world throughout history, always starts by supressing the "fringe" elements, but it never stops there.  They count on the complacency of the majority who think that the mainstream has little to worry about in order to slowly chip away at basic rights and freedoms...

If they sold to a minor or sold something that broke local obscenity laws, I have no sympathy and would have to say Ashcroft is doing his job. If Extreme broke a law (if you're in that line of business you better know all of the laws), they will pay the price. If they didn't they can probably sue LAPD the western PA law enforcement people.

Believe it or not, I find Ashcroft's statement in the Extreme Associates case to be encouraging.  (Holy Cow! Did Stevi really say that?) To understand this, I think you have to understand the politics involved.  The religous right is unhappy with the Justice Department.  They feel that all porn including very mainstream material is illegal under federal obscenity laws.  They are quite disappointed that the administration (that they supported) has not begun an all out war on porn.

In making a public statement on this case, Ashcroft does several things.  Number one, he publicizes the fact that the administration is doing something about porn. This will placate all but the most radical elements of the right wing.  Number two, he says that the Justice Department will "continue to focus our efforts on targeted obscenity prosecutions" IE prosecutions of the most extreme material. That I believe will be the Justice Department's strategy at least until after the election.

I think it's important for average citizens to understand this.  While you and I are going about our lives, the pols in Washington are already thinking about 2004. If you watch the administration closely, everything they do from here on out will have election implications. It will affect their handling of the economy, Iraq (where they are already looking for a way out) and even porn prosecutions.  Do they really want to attack a popular industry (that cuts across ideological lines) with a potentially very close election staring them in the face?  I think not.  Politically they are calculating that they have the right wing vote already in their pocket.  The religious actually have very little political leverage to use to force a porn war at this time.

After the 2004 elections, all bets are off.  Deep down I fear that this administration will veer sharply right in international affairs, judicial appointments, social policy etc when freed of the reelection burden.  By that time though a certain amount of water (Such as can they convict people like Extreme Associates?) will have passed under the dam.  How things play out will affect what happens next.  I will offer one other potential political caveat.  If Bush/Cheney is reelected, it is almost certain that Cheney will not run for president in 2008. That leaves the Republican nomination open.  I believe George W would like to see Jeb suceed him.  I also believe that Ashcroft himself wants to be president.

Stevi Secret

i take it back ...  he IS Christ !   LOL

afterall, didn't Dubya say that Ashcroft was a "man of solid integrity and deeply-held religious values' ? ... kinda like Dubya's #1 role model in life ... JESUS! ... his and hence OUR Lord and Saviour!?  

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"Do they really want to attack a popular industry (that cuts across ideological lines) with a potentially very close election staring them in the face?  I think not  [...]  The religious actually have very little political leverage to use to force a porn war at this time." -- Stevi Secret


it's a good point but i don't think it's all due to a lack of leverage. there is another side to it that is far more hypocritical i think ... in actuality Vivid, through its "dial-a-porn" hotel/cable-TV adult content subscription franchise, distributes an only slightly-less-offensive grade of "filth" but to a far greater audience and straight into the heart of the God-fearing Bible-belt and "Bible-pants" of this country.

Vivid's couples tapes (and raunchier stuff) are already finding their way to strip-malls (Tower Records, etc) all across this great "Land of the Free" [cough] ... but the thing is, Vivid and the other "EA" (Elegant Angel) are much harder to attack even though as far as the CR is concerned it's still all godless filth that corrupts the soul of every good Christian! ... but somehow the fact that they "corrupt" a far greater NUMBER of folks than the pervy-EA could ever hope to, is of no concern to them (therein lies the hypocrisy)

why? cuz the pervy EA is far easier to demonize in order for them to justify their stings, indictments and millions of tax-payer money spent setting them up and following through with prosecutions, etc  ... "oh look fellow Americans, we stopped these monsters from breeding a whole generation of psychopaths that were going to kidnap your little daughters and rape and murder them! are we your saviours now or what?"


the legal affairs department of Vivid could possibly crush  most attempts by DOJ to choke of its life line ... and guess what? Vivid is making an lot of legitimate and lucrative side-businesses and affiliated businessmen (not to mention lawyers!) an AWFUL lot of money ... i've heard from some people on the periphery that parts of Vivid (the corporation) look and feel as legit and formal as IBM or Microsoft corporate headquarters

it's ALL about money i'm afraid ... religion takes a back seat to big business in this administration and THIS is the very root of the hypocrisy ... they can wave the Bible in the air all they want ... but standing behind them on the platform, with campaign contributions in suitcases, is BIG BUSINESS ... and porn has already become a small but rapidly growing part of big business
in this country

OK This is the deal I think to a point. This administration has to please every vote that they can cause they know Iraq is going to blow up in there face its just a matter of time. So might the fight on terrorism too. So the next easiest target is a lose cannon like Rob Black and Extreme Associates. This is not the nicest guy in the world first off.

So to my point first off they broke laws in Pennsylvania . These laws pertain to mailing of 3 tapes. Now there are certain laws in certain states as to what's legal and what's not. Second there are states you cant ship too. Someone at Extreme is an idiot on that note.  As for the internet and downloading of clips i'm not sure its possible to make it so that a certain state cant view something.

There is really a big underlying problem in porn with pushing the limits and going into areas we should not be going . Raping of a woman is one.

   

     "On February 7, 2002, PBS-Frontline interviewed       Extreme Associates, Inc. during a movie shoot of American       Porn. The PBS-Frontline cameraman and interviewer       stopped shooting during the movie shoot. We believe they left       because of the shock and disgust of the rape scene, which was       subsequently released as Forced Entry.    

   

     "During the PBS-Frontline interview, [Rob Black]       (principal) and Extreme Associates issued a challenge to U.S.       Attorney General Ashcroft [USAG]. They touted the USAG in       regards to the content of their movies and that USAG could       not do anything about it."    

from AVN.com

This is the kind of shit that makes me and anyone else in porn look like shit to the general public. I'm sorry but if you want to see a woman raped that's just sick. There have been prosecutions of Adam Glassier too AkA Seymore butts for a fisting scene .. He basically got off  on it. I think he should have this is not obscene of hurting a woman .

I was on a set recently for a company doing camera work. After the scene the woman went to the hospital for 3 days with hemorrhaging. I personally was having a hard time filming the scene. This male talent was beating on the girl . Please tell me how this is sexual unless your a sick fuck.

So I my point is this the adult industry has in some cases way over stepped there bounds. I just wish it was the Industry policing it self and not Ashcroft and his band of idiots.

Stevi is right also that if Bush is reelected where in for it. If Bush is there again we are screwed. I think it will be a all out assault. But then again I think if Ashcroft and Bush do this there going to have hell to pay considering some of the biggest porn companies are GM motors and Disney and Time Warner. These companies all are huge on supplying porn to hotels, own a lot of the cable channels too. There are also a lot of conservatives that look at porn on the net in there own homes that never see a video store. So if they take this too far there going to piss there own voters off too. It has been my experience that most of the people that yell and scream the hardest are the closet porn watchers.

So I think its going to be very dicey as to what goes on. I think Bush is going to have a very hard time getting back into the Presidency. Unless Bush can do a few things about the economy and find Weapons of mass destruction  in Iraq and possibly get Osama Bin Laden and Hussein. Bush is going to have a lot of discontent in this country. And if the Democrats can get there heads out of there asses and not kill each other. Basically Bush might have to have another election rip off in Florida.. Go help jeb ......

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Articles&action=View_Article&Content_ID=35786  

avn article

You know those ads in the beginning of every adult film where it mentions the FSCF & Fans of X-rated Entertainment...I'll admit, I've never sent a contribution, but perhaps it's time to start donating, & others as well...

IMHO, this administration will not stop w/Extreme Associates...This isn't a case of employing minors or not paying taxes, it was content...The Frontline special on PBS a while back started the problems for E.A....

But then again, the adult industry had the Reagan/Meese era in the 80's along with the Traci Lords scandal in 86, & it did survive that....

Any good Liberterian candiates for 2004???

I was in one of the movies that was confiscated, Ass Clowns 3.  Does anyone know what the exact charges were?  Because although Extreme does depict a lot of harshness, I never saw anything happen in their studios that was illegal by American standards...

xoxo
Jennifer Steele

if you read my post above you can get all the info i know. I think there is alot more to it then what has hit the media if you want email me and i can tell you what i have heard.  

[email protected]


John

probably one of the very few documented and legitimate cases of a rape/torture/snuff video (in effect what EA is trying to "simulate") ... i wonder if the DOJ did anything to track down their connection/distributor in the US


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April 1999: German Duo Convicted of Making Snuff Film

Two men in Germany were recently sentenced to life imprisonment for committing murder while producing a snuff film. It's the first such conviction ever. The men filmed themselves sexually assaulting and torturing a 21-year-old woman for a snuff film they had hoped to sell in America for $16,000. Frankfurt-based prosecutor Job Tillman says there's a ready market for films depicting violence against women and children -- especially in America. Although one of the men is appealing the ruling, the other says he views jail as an opportunity to work on himself and his problems.

Michael Leidig writes 4/13/99 from Vienna for the Daily Telegraph, a London newspaper:

Ernst Dieter Korzen, 37, and Stefan Michael Mahn, 30, [videotaped] themselves sexually assaulting and torturing a 21-year-old woman in 1997. The victim died before the production was complete and the pair kidnapped a second woman to finish the video. But she escaped and alerted authorities, who arrested the men.

Wolfgang Rahmer, the chief prosecutor, told the court: "From my experience this represents a new depth in perversion. You see the victim begging for her life, pain being inflicted and massive sexual torture."

The court was told that the murdered woman, Jueleyha Akpinar, was working as a prostitute in Cologne when she met the two men in November. They offered her drugs and money to go with them to the remote bungalow in Kierspe-Roensal, near Hagen. A lack of direct evidence had previously led to widespread scepticism over the existence of a snuff movie industry, with many writing it off as an "urban myth". But Wolfgang Rahmer said he had no doubt that such an industry existed.

Both men were jailed for life in a secure psychiatric institution. Judge Hoerst Werner Herkenberg said Korzen should not expect his case to be re-examined for at least 18 years, and that Mahn would have to wait at least 15.


Source: http://www.tranquileye.com/historyofporn/snuff.html

and exporting them by the ton to the Middle East. Lot of the ill temperament of the folks there are because they're too repressed. If Iraq can now become the porno capital of the Middle East, it would do wonders.

There is really nothing that is "Illegal" to shoot in the United States except Child Pornography which thankfully is illegal.  It is all based on community standards which is why most of these cases are brought in Kentucky, Alabama and buttfuck PA.  You will never be able to say the even the most wacky things would be against community standards in NYC.

While Rob Black and Extreme basically were stupid enough to dare Ashcroft & Co. to do this, it is very disturbing.  They don't take everyones rights away all at once, they just keep chipping away piece by piece.  

FYI the Democrats are no better.  Can anyone say Tipper Gore?

RP

Interesting how Black's porn empire now totters.  I'm not sure how many of you knew that he was going to conquer the wrestling industry, too.  (LOL)  His idea was to produce hardcore (no pun intended) wrestling shows to fill the void left by the closure of ECW.  He even long-term booked one of ECW's old arenas in (I believe) Philadelphia (anyone correct me if I was wrong on the city).  Anyway, the long-term booking lasted about 2 months before he stiffed the landlord.  At the point, his wrestling empire looks to be kaput, too.

For the record, his rep in wrestling appears to be about the same as in the adult film world.  To paraphrase a recent posting by Amber Lynn -- he got just what he deserved.  Not that I have ANY love for Asscroft, but, let's be honest, the adult industry, as the wrestling industry, is definitely a better place without the likes of him and his fellow dregs.