Tried to book with her for an upcoming trip. Sent an initial email, got a response requesting verification information (including race/ethnicity info) and a note explaining that, (we all have preferences).
I sent a follow-up email with my race/ethnicity info just to get that out of the way, and after initially getting no response at all, I finally got her (or her scheduler) to come clean and respond. I'm sorry, but I'd prefer to call a spade a spade and won't allow racial prejudice to hide behind the less egregious term "preference". We all have preferences yes, but when it's a money transaction, a business proposal and your "preferences" won't allow you to contract then that is a prejudice not simply a preference anymore. It's 2013 folks... get over your backward shit....
at least four girls that I have e-mailed have politely said no but they would rather not see someone with a disability. My attitude is not a problem for every couple that say no there must be 20yes responses. Yes this is a business but it's also personal choice if the young lady feels uncomfortable being with me or a black man on Oriental that's her choice, and look upon as her loss, most of these girls are living hand to mouth and if they can afford to refuse a client because of race or disability or whatever other preference they have a problem with good luck to them.
We all have our personal prejudices some like big boob blondes me I prefer long black hair or redheads but that's not to say if a gorgeous blonde is the only one available that I would not pay for her services.
Some girls will see other girls as clients and I personally have no problem with that others are willing to see groups even confessed their preference more power to them.
All I'm saying is if Emma mae doesn't want your money I'm sure the list of girls that will take your money will be longer than your arm 
.
I sent a follow-up email with my race/ethnicity info just to get that out of the way, and after initially getting no response at all, I finally got her (or her scheduler) to come clean and respond.
I'm sorry, but I'd prefer to call a spade a spade and won't allow racial prejudice to hide behind the less egregious term "preference".
We all have preferences yes, but when it's a money transaction, a business proposal and your "preferences" won't allow you to contract then that is a prejudice not simply a preference anymore.
It's 2013 folks... get over your backward shit....
Yes, and there are laws against discrimination against people on the basis of disability because it is wrong. Now we can't legislate against prejudice on an interpersonal level. But prejudices are wrong and for a reason.
All I'm saying is just because we can't legislate against it and make it illegal doesn't mean that we should allow people to hide behind the term, "preference" and pretend they aren't prejudiced.
Just call it what it is, and in this case, she's a racist. And every time this happens, I intend to call them out on it. She's a neanderthal living in another age.
And sure there are plenty others that will take my money but it doesn't lessen the feelings of embarrassment and anger that the experience causes. Surely you can relate to that.
crying racism every time something doesn't go your way is wrong also. the personal attacks you are making at her are wrong. so every time someone does something you don't like, is this how you re-act? maybe THAT is why she doesn't want to see you.
if being told no embarrasses you, you probably aren't mature enough for this type of thing anyway
no, being a person of color you can kind of tell the difference when a person is just an asshole, and when they are being racially prejudiced.
but you probably wouldn't get that because you never had to experience it yourself, and would rather we no discuss it. sorry to make you uncomfortable and rile up your feelings of personal guilt.
trust me, NO guilt here
All I'm saying is just because we can't legislate against it and make it illegal doesn't mean that we should allow people to hide behind the term, "preference" and pretend they aren't prejudiced.
Just call it what it is, and in this case, she's a racist. And every time this happens, I intend to call them out on it. She's a neanderthal living in another age.
And sure there are plenty others that will take my money but it doesn't lessen the feelings of embarrassment and anger that the experience causes. Surely you can relate to that.
Her reasoning is irrelevant. She doesn't want to see black men and this is not wall street. Lick you wound and move on. There are plenty of providers and PS's who will see you.
Believe me I'm over it. I just called it out and will do so when it happens
You wouldn't be posting a "woe is me" "she's a racist" bullshit post. Move on.
You can't tell someone how they should respond.
And there is nothing about my post that is "woe is me".
Go fuck yourself....
Hence the "woe is me" comment. You either posted for the pity aspect, or to attempt to lash out at her because she refused to see you. I see both in your posts.
Get over it, and move on.
by an Asian provider because she didn't see white men. I didn't come to the board to call her a racist and cry my eyes out. I just moved on.
+1..
Get over it, and move on.
I am with pepper. He was not complaining all he was doing was telling other black hobbyist to pass on this girl. Not a complaint or a wine. And as for the people who say he should not use the racist Well, if a person discriminates against an age she is an ageist if they do it against their sexuality then they are a homophobe , so what do they do call against race.
Creolepeppa was just putting the word out. All u guys read this article to tell if a provider would be a good match with u or not. So a man tells us that she would not be a good match against a certain minority then u guys jump on him because it is her rite bullshit. Not what he was saying he was telling us black hobbyist (which r more of us than you guys think) to pass. If she was was lousy to him and rude no one would say a word. He was saying she was lousy to him. And that is his god given rite. And because she discriminate against a minority u do not belong to u tell him to grow up. Sorry bullshit. I agree with u it is her preference to see who she wants and I can respect that but she is not on here be littleing a fellow hobbyist ideas because they do not a belong to his culture or race. U don't want us to pull the race card then try not to pull it quicker than he did.
Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking about approaching her. Now I won't waste my time. I've been turned down by a few girls, but the numbers who will see brothers privately, even those who don't do IR on screen, more than makes up for her loss. Good luck and be safe.
.
My thought's exactly, I wanted to put it out there so others wouldn't bother with her.
It just puts her and other's like her in a position to be able to "deny" us.
Avoid like the plague her prejudice is
if you were white and she was black, and she said no due to your race, not a word would be said of it. PERIOD. I don't care if it is preference, predjudice or if you wanna call her a full on racist...ITS HER CHOICE. there is nothing that says she has to see you. NOTHING. do you have the right to be upset or annoyed? of course. but to come on here and bitch and moan like a little girl that isn't allowed to have boys in her room with the door closed....its sad and pathetic. if you want to alert others that she wont see black guys, ok, but don't do it in a childish rant like this one.
you know how businesses often have signs that say they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at their own discretion? yeah, that's what she did.
and to be honest, there will always be women that refuse to see black men, at least until you guys stop playing the race card for everything. a white girl said no thanks, and you probably didn't wait 15 seconds to call her a racist. sometimes, its more about those behaviors than it is the actual color of your skin.
actually, a business doesn't have the right to refuse me service on the basis of my skin.
because it's morally wrong and because it can be legislated, illegal to do so. now, this is more an interpersonal interaction and not something that can be legislated, and I'm not suggesting it should.
but it is still wrong, and I think people have a right to know.
if talking about race makes you uncomfortable, stick your head back up your arse and keep pretending that "reverse racism" against white people, men in particular is a real social problem on par with racism against people of color.
give me a break....
Guess what partner.....laws don't mean squat in an illegal activity. If you're looking to be an activist in the matter, give Eric Holder a call.
Based on the PM that he sent me, he is clearly the racist.
It is usually the racists that are crying racism the most. Those who throw stones should not live in a glass house.
and which PM was that? when I called you out on your whiteness?
Get over it.
Most providers have categories of people they won't see. The most prevalent is guys in their 20s, because they have no skills, just pound away or don't know how to behave. Are said providers "agist?"
Most Korean providers will not see Korean men because they are afraid of being recognized by someone from that tightly-knit community. Are they racist?
Some African-American providers will not see AA men because they've had bad experiences with them. Are they self-hating racists?
In other words, virtually every provider you can name has limits on who she'll see, and for all kinds of reasons. Last, to analogize this business with any other business completely ignores the fact that it provides the most intimate service on the planet and unlike any other. Personal taste is a legitimate, non-racist thing to exercise. And safety is always a concern as well.
My most recent review is of a wonderful AA woman. I wonder what her policy is
In fact just the opposite.
And yes ageism is an issue in society as well but not on par with racism so I wouldn't equate the two as discriminatory equals.
And what you refer to with the example of the Korean who won't see Koreans is a much more unique and particular situation, and is less to do with the fact that the man is Korean but that they live in a small community.
The African-Am provider who won't see African-Am men, ( for example someone like Isis Taylor who is Black but won't do scenes anymore with Black performers) I would say is an example of internalized racism and it's not uncommon.
There are even examples of PS's (whatever their ethnicity) who won't do Black men on or off camera even while in active personal relationships with a Black man. It's racist all the same.
One thing I would highlight is that as with your example of ageism, racism takes an experience or a stereotype and generalizes it for the group. So although a PS might have a horrible experience with a white client, or an older client, they are not then marked by the experience with that individual.
For people of color (Black men specifically) it has always been the case that the actions, (typically negative, much rarer positive) of an individual are generalized to define us as a group. That is why people feel justified in having prejudicial and discriminatory attitudes.
Your definition of racism, (and the one many white folks generally prefer) is one that places the burden on me to have proof or evidence of clear racist intention.
However to people of color our reality is that intentions by and large are irrelevant when the outcome is what shapes our experience.
So whether or not you are consciously racist or intend to be racist; the outcome is discrimination against Black clients, which is what her scheduler admitted to me after some probing saying "I'm just the messenger here".
And I'm sure you weren't trying to suggest I meant to equate agism with the kind of racism AA men suffer. I also was well aware the K-girl example was kind of a niche. But my point in raising these issues was to illustrate that there are a lot of men certain providers won't see, for a variety of reasons. That doesn't make all of them equal. But it does show that most providers do discriminate for one reason or another.
I also note that you did not respond at all to my point that comparing this to any other business simply fails because it is like no other. So, while I agree that racism has no place in business, the nature of the provider's job gives her more latitude than most in making choices about who to see. It may be the only job where I won't automatically assume she's a racist if she declines to see an AA male, although the idea makes me uncomfortable. Most of the women I see don't have that policy. In fact, a prominent monger in my area is AA and he has no trouble seeing anyone he wants. The ladies love him.
It's not a business, it's an illegal activity. So citing references to laws regarding goods/services and race is not germane to this discussion. Of course you're POed, you should be. But if you think she cares (or any dude on TER who's never experienced this), or that it will cost her a dime of money, or a minute of sleep, you're deluding yourself.
MfSD>>>>
-- Modified on 9/5/2013 1:08:07 PM
Actually I addressed the fact that this was not like a normal case of "business discrimination" in previous post, and also said that I wouldn't suggest this type of prejudice could or should be legislated in the same way.
Ultimately, interpersonal prejudice is something that we can't really control externally and it isn't something I spend a great deal of time on. I'm more interested in institutional and structural forms of racism than some guy calling me the 'n' word. Or for that matter a PS not being willing to see me.
However, that being said, I felt the need to make this post, so others would know that this person would not see me because I'm Black, as a warning to other Black men on this board to not to bother trying to book her.
That's all.
And whereas you are more willing to give her and others the benefit of the doubt, I think that just provides them cover and I would prefer to see the practice eliminated because I personally dislike it.
So giving them the benefit of the doubt doesn't address the issue.
Provide cover ? You're making this out to be some high crime or misdemeanor that's been committed. I've seen white porn stars (Ciera Sage) who did the majority of their scenes with black men, seen other escorts who wouldn't see Black men under any circumstance, as a civie or an escort.
And I think a lady should state on her site, ads, if she has a preference(s) according to race. But the reality is most of them don't/won't because they are worried about being negatively perceived. Personally I couldn't care less who an escort fucks, but there are more White dudes who are going to be supportive of or indifferent to an escort not seeing Black men, than there are those who are going to be turned off by it.
I never walked in your shoes, but I have a Black friend who knows what it's like to be turned away at the door by an escort. And maybe the indifference or even downright disdain displayed here to your "plight" is a result of this topic having been beat to death here on TER so many times.
MfSD>>>>
If discrimination against a group is categorized by race, it is racism.
There is no arguing around it!
Most Korean providers will not see Korean men because they are afraid of being recognized by someone from that tightly-knit community. Are they racist?
Some African-American providers will not see AA men because they've had bad experiences with them. Are they self-hating racists?
In other words, virtually every provider you can name has limits on who she'll see, and for all kinds of reasons. Last, to analogize this business with any other business completely ignores the fact that it provides the most intimate service on the planet and unlike any other. Personal taste is a legitimate, non-racist thing to exercise. And safety is always a concern as well.
My most recent review is of a wonderful AA woman. I wonder what her policy is?
Move on to a new lady. Pray for the growth of the human heart. But when a woman is deciding with whom to participate in the most intimate physical and emotional activity short of childbirth she can employ any criteria she wants. It's her body and her life. You have no Constitutional, natural or inherent right to get in her panties. And you have no contractual right other than what she willingly and freely grants you. If you think she's prejudiced you may be right. It's also completely irrelevant.
Honestly, I think you're the one who needs to get over it. Just because she doesn't sleep with black men, doesn't mean she's racist.
She's just simply not attracted to black men. I'm not attracted to fat women, doesn't mean that I hate them, I just choose not to sleep with them. Granted, she's a service provider, but she still has a right to see who she wants. Doesn't mean she's racist. And people don't hide behind a "preference" umbrella, (at most I've encountered).
Just because she provides a service, doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to want to have fun providing said service. Quoting the date just makes you look childish. It's not a matter of time, or forward thinking, it's a matter of preference. No amount of time that goes by will make me attracted to fat women, or compel me to ever order a well done steak. Rare, all the way. Seriously, just get over it and move on, stop name calling.
what.s the big deal..i know several porn stars who will not see African-American men in escorting or in their porn shoots..it is obviously their personal choice..i never give advice to any woman { porn star or not} on how to best use her pussy..they have the choice..we don't...
...When those who don't face such idiotic, hickish behavior lecture those who have to deal with the continued backwardness of (mostly) American society.
Seriously, some providers would do a midget, an elderly guy with pyorrhea or a diseased crackhead ex-con before they would do a clean cut, taxpaying, educated black man. (Until the Digital Playground contract ends, and the phone stops ringing, then it's time to do some black porn thug to get publicity.)
Sure, it's their choice and their body. It's my choice to say it's a stupid choice, and people should avoid the body of someone who would make such asinine choices.
It's easy to be dismissive to a fellow hobbyist if your options are less limited 'cause you're white. Good for you! It's easy to hide behind "choice" when you have unfettered access to any provider. Awesome!
In either case, it shows ignorance of another's experience or you simply have racialist issues of your own.
Seems to me Pepa is doing most of the lecturing in this thread. And calling a provider stupid for her choice in clients and lecturing the rest of us to avoid her (again, I couldn't care less who an escort fucks, as long as she treats me right when I see her, and most White guys aren't going to cock block a lady for refusing to see AAm men) is your own brand of stupidity.
And some porn stars wait until later in their careers to do IR, Kagney Linn Karter and Tori Black come to mind.
These threads always end up the same. They go round and round and the dead horse gets beaten again and again. Well, here's to blowing up racial stereotypes: I'm White, well hung, could dunk a volleyball at age 18, break 60 seconds in the 400m and I love nailing large breasted ebony escorts.
MfSD>>>>
I am an AA male and I've been denied by about 5 or 6 women in over 20 years of hobbying. On the other hand I've enjoyed the company of well over 200 ladies including a handful of porn stars. So you see I do know what it's like to have my choices "limited" but it clearly isn't some epidemic and my attitude has been to move the fuck on rather than whining about the couple of times I got turned down.
Rite on. I know many black female providers that preference black men over white men but never want to admit in public because that would kill there business and there careers. But when the opposite happens ,we should I love this " grow the fuck up". If a sister stopped seeing clients because of there skin it would be there last day at work. Because my Caucasian brothers would find it disrespectful . But we should let it ride because we should have a little less respect for ourselves because we r black? Just want to know the rules so we can play the game rite.
So you want a woman to have sex with you because you think she should have to? LMAO! How good do you think that sex is going to be?
women of all races must see see men of all races? Not aware of one.
Racism is state of your own mind. As you are free to exercise your free will, others can also exercise their free will. Forcing others to do somethings they are not willing to do on their own free will is another form of slavery
Nobody said anything about *forcing* someone do do anything. I clearly state in my post that it's the woman's choice.
I simply said such a choice, given the behavior of certain providers when it come to "less desirable" partner alternatives, is kinda supid and ignorant.
We can be sycophants and applaud such random exclusions of certain populations. Or, we can ask stark questions, like why the white methhead vs. the black PhD? Why the Hedgehog versus the African-American dentist?
If if answer is simply a "choice," fair enough. All of us, though, judge others' choices.
I think it's fucking stupid to listen to Justin Bieber, to twerk or eat extra cheese pizza.
That's *my* right.
And, oh, I am also saying "move on" if a provider has such backwards views. Clearly if the education or life experience isn't there to be open to all of God's children then probably the provider is not worth meeting anyway.
I simply said such a choice, given the behavior of certain providers when it come to "less desirable" partner alternatives, is kinda supid and ignorant.
We can be sycophants and applaud such random exclusions of certain populations. Or, we can ask stark questions, like why the white methhead vs. the black PhD? Why the Hedgehog versus the African-American dentist?
If if answer is simply a "choice," fair enough. All of us, though, judge others' choices.
I think it's fucking stupid to listen to Justin Bieber, to twerk or eat extra cheese pizza.
That's *my* right.
And, oh, I am also saying "move on" if a provider has such backwards views. Clearly if the education or life experience isn't there to be open to all of God's children then probably the provider is not worth meeting anyway.
I don't think a woman choosing not to see a certain client based on factors such as race or age is a bad thing at all. I think that in order for a women to work as an escort and not suffer emotional trauma she should only engage in activities that she was willing to do in her personnel life before she got into escorting/porn. I think when a woman begins doing things she isn't comfortable with she will have a much harder time living with herself.
"And, oh, I am also saying "move on" if a provider has such backwards views. Clearly if the education or life experience isn't there to be open to all of God's children then probably the provider is not worth meeting anyway."
I read. I disagree. I saw a lady recently who asked about my hobby experiences. So I detailed some of them, including a few singles/duos with Ebony ladies. Then I asked her off hand, "you see Black guys, right? " Her response was terse, "no". She was a great fuck, educated and articulate. Perhaps your admonition to move on is directed towards other AAm. But like I said up the thread, White guys (the majority of clients) either don't care, or are supportive of a lady's right to see whom she pleases.
MfSD>>>>
It's her body and just cause you are "paying for it" does not mean that it is your God given right to see her.
Your argument of
"We all have preferences yes, but when it's a money transaction, a business proposal and your "preferences" won't allow you to contract then that is a prejudice not simply a preference anymore. "
hold no water. This is like not being refused service at Denny's
Many women refuse to see clients for many reasons, age, race, dick size (in London's case), there are high end girls who will refuse to see you because of other girls you have reviewed that may not be "high end" , are you going to run and scream "elitism" on them?
Bottom line is you don't know her or her situation so shut the fuck up and move on. No one is entitled to see anyone they choose just cause they can afford the price of admission.
Every time this comes up on the board, people say 'get over it' and whatnot. Personally, I could give a damn if a provider had a so-called 'preference', there are plenty of providers out there that don't care as long as you're kind and respectful. To me, this isn't a 'Civil Rights' issue, it's a 'Choice" issue. A fucked-up choice, but a choice nonetheless. That being said, don't go off on a guy when he points this out. If a provider says that she doesn't want to deal w/ Black &/or Hispanic hobbyists (which happens ALOT here in NC, unfortunately), but WILL deal w/ White and Asian hobbyists, then that's being bigoted, simple as that. The one's that I find out are like that, I don't buy their stuff or if it's on my hardrive & I find out after the fact, I delete it & NEVER fuck w/ that person again. This was an issue w/ Memphis Monroe awhile back if I'm not mistaken. Also, there are porn providers that don't do 'IR' on screen, but have no problem w/ 'color issues' when it comes to this hobby, so hopefully people won't confuse the two. Hell, you even have providers that don't do hobbyists in their own ethnic group, which is CRAZY to me, but it's a fact of life in this hobby.
This a review board where info is traded, analyzed, and discussed. If a provider doesn't do BBBJs or isn't a GFE or has a bad attitude, people have a right to know so that they can make their own decision whether or not they want to see that provider. If she has a 'preference' of either Black men only or predominately Black hobbyists, then there would be alot of hoopla in the other direction on that as well (That has also been discussed here as well, w/o blaming the guy that brought it up though, but by getting on that particular provider). I don't believe that anyone is crying over spilled milk, but if she doesn't, then call her out on it, just as I would w/ No BBBJ, No GFE, No kissing, or another hot topic, BBFS aka Bareback Full Service, especially w/ the recent HIV scare that's going on as we speak. Also, age is a factor as well, w/ most providers wanting to see someone 35 and over which leaves out the people in their 20's completely.
Whether you agree w/ their decision or not, this is a place for INFORMATION. If she 'does this, but not that' or 'she does this on-camera but not in the hobby' is an everyday discussion here. Don't slay the messenger because you don't like the message.
Off my soapbox, for now...
I sent a follow-up email with my race/ethnicity info just to get that out of the way, and after initially getting no response at all, I finally got her (or her scheduler) to come clean and respond.
I'm sorry, but I'd prefer to call a spade a spade and won't allow racial prejudice to hide behind the less egregious term "preference".
We all have preferences yes, but when it's a money transaction, a business proposal and your "preferences" won't allow you to contract then that is a prejudice not simply a preference anymore.
It's 2013 folks... get over your backward shit....
My problem is the OP makes this statement "I'm sorry, but I'd prefer to call a spade a spade and won't allow racial prejudice to hide behind the less egregious term "preference".
What about this scenario? If a provider does not do duos or see couples does that automatically make her "homophobic" because she is not into girls? No, its a conclusion based on a preference statement without any other facts.
According to the OP's logic, he jumps to the conclusion and because of a stated preference he labels her in the most negative way. This is what I have a problem with, and the fact that his attitude is that because he can come up with the donation he has a right to see her which we all know that for dozens of different reasons providers do not see every single guy that contacts her.
Thanks for letting us know creolepeppa. Sadly it seems that the porn biz is not color blind. Porn girls come from all backgrounds. That includes racist trailer trash. Look at the girls that won't do scenes with African American men, but are married to one. That is because there are still racists in this world. It sucks, but we can't control peoples minds. But we can avoid them, and I will avoid the white trash this thread is about
So let me get this straight, any White porn star (who may or may not be married to a Black guy, curious how you would know) who won't see Black guys as clients or do scenes with them, are racist trash and to be avoided ? I don't read the AVN, or the other trade mags, so I don't know.
I like IR porn, a lot of people do. I could do without the seemingly obligatory coo cooing by the White porn star in to the camera, expressing her undying love for big black cock, or endlessly calling black porn stars girl, when they're doing a White blow bang, but otherwise it's pretty hot.
I agree it sucks, but I'll say it again (and for the last time), most White dudes, the majority of escort clients, couldn't care less if a White escort (who just happens to be a porn star) won't see Black dudes.
MfSD>>>>
-- Modified on 9/9/2013 7:31:57 AM
Your posts on this thread remind me of the truth behind on old George Carlin line.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag the conversation down to their level, and beat you with experience.
Snappy retort. Did you lay awake all night, thinking that one up ? Feel free to respond, I'm done here.
MfS
I liked the George Carlin quote, however I think it refers to you and the OP!