After a lot of recent controversy about performances promised and performances delivered, I thought I'd add my two cents...
These ladies are fantasies, but they're human too. Some of them are in this business strictly for the money, but many of them are "swingers" in their private lives, and enjoy sex. Sex with strangers, sex with other women, sex with groups. Many of them got into porn as an extention of their lifestyles, as a way to enjoy their sexuality and make money doing it... not all of them, of course, but ladies like Kathy Willets, Anna Malle, Nina Hartley and others are known for their alternate lifestyles, and performers like Keisha, Miko Lee, etc. are known to be wild and over the top providers.
So assuming we've done our homework beforehand, ideally the ladies are hoping to enjoy themselves as much as we are during our time together. And I believe if you approach a meeting with that in mind, and try to make it fun for both parties involved, you'll rarely be disappointed.
Studies have shown that men are visually stimulated, while women are aroused by emotional considerations... that's why we like to watch porn vids and buy Hustler and Penthouse, and our signigicant others read romance novels that get their imaginations (and juices) flowing. And it's also why I've found that what a guy looks like isn't all that important to the girl... (if it was, I'd never have a good meeting). What IS important is that you make it clear to them by your attitude and actions that you're interested in their enjoyment too. Do that, and the sky's the limit on what you're going to get in return.
Which brings me to the main point... There are certain things (varying from hobbyist to hobbyist) that we all look for from a provider, pornstar or otherwise. For me personally, DFK and BBBJ are the number one and two things on my list when I research a girl. But when I see a lady who I know from reviews does provide those activities, I don't automatically assume that I'm going to get them.... I always have the dreaded "YMMV" words in the back of my mind, so I do everything I can to make the lady WANT to provide those things.... I make sure I'm freshly showered, that my teeth are brushed, that I'm dressed nicely. I bring flowers or a candle or a bottle of wine. I tell the pornstar how much of a fan I am, and how she always turns me on watching her videos and how great she looks in person..... Basically I treat her like a blind date, because if you think about it, that's pretty much what it is, the main difference being that you know for a fact that you're going to get laid. And I've NEVER been disappointed by a lady who didn't provide what she was known to.
But a guy who meets a provider with an attitude of EXPECTING particular activities, and who is unconcerned with building a rapport with her, will probably be disappointed just about every time. I recently saw a non-pornstar provider and had one of the best times of my life... she really WAS like a girl friend. I reviewed her on TER and Big Doggie, and a few weeks later she emailed me and thanked me for, in her words, "the wonderful review", but then she asked me if I would remove some of the details... it seemed that a client showed up for a session waving a copy of my review in his hand, and basically was using it as a checklist to make sure he got the same things that I had. Needless to say he didn't, which pissed him off and made the provider very uncomfortable... she explained to me that our "date" had been very enjoyable and the activities we engaged in flowed natuarally during the course of our time together... it wasn't just a laundry list of activities she routinely provided. Bottom line, a provider might actually enjoy pleasing her client, and really love DFK, or BBBJ's, or DATY or whatever. She might have 100 reviews stating that fact... But that doesn't mean that if you're an asshole, she's still going to want to do it for you. As members of TER, I'm sure we've all seen reviews where 99% of them rave about the girl's bbbjtc or how orgasmic she was, only to find those one or two reviews that complained that they received CBJ's or that the girl seemed aloof or anxious to get the session over with... and you can bet in those cases, the guy was probably a dick.
And one final related note, I think it's important to keep sight of the fact that in the end, this is a business. And because it is a business, there are some people who are going to be treated differently than others. I met Danecca Gray last year, we had a great time, and after we were done she told me that she was "relieved that I was a good guy" because she had been very nervous about meeting me! We're talking about a woman who has sex with multiple partners in front of a crew of cameramen, directors, grips, etc. This girl did a layout in Penthouse with Lexington Steele, and she was nervous about meeting me!!! She told me that she was so intimidated that she had consumed two glasses of wine at 11 am in the morning before I arrived!!! When I asked how she could possibly be intimidated by me, she told me that because of my reputation on the Big Doggie board, my review could have a significant financial effect on her touring and the number of bookings she got. Her agent had actually told her that I could "make or break her" in the business. I don't necessarily believe that to be true, but what I'm saying is that any review you read by a highly visible poster like myself, Score, Cheetah, Seth, etc. has to be taken with a grain of salt, because this IS a business, and these ladies are savvy enough to know "which side of the bread the butter is on". The one thing that dawned on me after talking with Danecca is that the rules are different with a high profile hobbyist. Just because he had a good session or because the lady keeps in contact with him doesn't necessarily mean that she liked him or enjoyed his company. I realized that Danecca would have given me 120% even if she thought I was a complete bastard, which is an advantage that an average hobbyist wouldn't receive... So don't take all reviews as gospel... consider both the lady AND the source.
-- Modified on 10/21/2002 11:10:25 PM
-- Modified on 10/21/2002 11:21:04 PM
FastEddie:
Ditto, Ditto and Ditto!!! Could not agree with you more strongly.
When I first began to venture into the PSE category, reading post and trading PMs with more senior hobbyist, provided the insight I needed to know how to deal with a PSE meeting. The information ended up helping me not only with PSE, but improved my experiences with Non-PSE providers.
In my personal experiences, once I knew what a provider may or may not provide, especially with the YMMV factor, I always found it best to treat each meeting just as you described, as similar to a blind date. Treat her well, bring her little tokens or gifts, and be a gentleman and not a dick or asshole. Not that you needed to go in not expecting anything, but reading each situation and letting nature take its course. By following this basic rule, I've been lucky enough to have ladies introduce me to some new things I'd never tried before, as well as have done things with providers that they may or may not have been known to do.
In one recent meeting with a PSE that I had been wanting to see for the last year or two, I arranged for a 6 hour meeting (our second meeting in a week) which was to include me taking her to a very nice lunch. (Done so I would have the energy to keep up with her
and she appreciated it and had said that no client had ever taken her for a meal before. The ultimate experience was wonderful and what she indicated she wanted to have us do in our next meeting, has me thinking of her about every other day until I can get the time to see her again.
Bottom Line! We are all human beings and should be treated as such, regardless of the hobby.
Later,
SoCalTroy
Fasteddie, you are a very respected and prolific hobbyist. I know that we haven't always agreed, but I respect that your reputation is well deserved. I am also aware that you are more experienced at this that I am, but your post inspired a few thoughts...
First, there is no excuse for a hobbyist being a dick, period. If he is a jerk, then if he gets service at all, it should be returned in kind. I don't think anybody being a jerk to these wonderful ladies is considered acceptable by most of us. So that can be discounted from your argument to some degree.
Second, the high profile guys like you, and Doc, and Score, etc, are of course going to recieve top of the line service. You are respected and guys like me save money based on what you write in order to see the Annas, and the Mikos of this hobby. Kudos, for being out in front, and getting the benefits. How ever some recent occurences have also shown that this is not always the case.
Finally, however, I too, (like many others) have certain criteria (BBJ, russian, etc). I think that that given the rate and the pervious reviews, it is not unfair to the ladies to expect these things. If you click with a certain lady, and things happen that don't always (good for you), but maybe these are the positive results of YMMV and shouldn't be in the reviews. I'm glad you amended that lady's review, and I'm gad that you had a better than expected time. But that's the point, the hobbyist has a right to an "expected time" (if you're not a jerk, which as stated above is always unacceptable). Is this a "laundry list"? Maybe, if certain services, used as a deciding factor for hobbyists (BBBJ,DFK,GREEK,RUSSIAN,etc) is considered so. However, with all due respect I think that some things about about a meeting should stay consistent. The purpose of this community is to know at least what to expect (barring being a jerk). If there is chemistry, and so forth isn't that just a wonderful bonus?
Just my thoughts, LR
I totally agree. Jerks, and to add to that category hobbyists who are unclean would also fall into that category, but for the amount of money that is being paid for these top professionals there needs to be a baseline of expected services. If for some reason they can't be delivered then there needs to be some type of understanding upfront before the session starts?? I am not sure how this should be handled.. Fortunately I have not yet to date experienced this issue..
While I might agree that there's no excuse for a hobbyist being a dick, that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of dicks out there. I think we've all seen posts that refer to the ladies as whores, sluts, etc. The fact is that there are a lot of guys who think very little of a lady who escorts, and yet has no problem with his own self esteem as someone who avails himself of the woman's availability. There is a double standard... the mentality that "it's ok for me to see a hooker, but any girl who would do it is scum" is very real, and more prevelent than you may think.... remember, there's a lot more guys who see escorts than post about them, and my guess is that those who post are a little more sophisticated than those who don't; at least I'd like to think that.
As to establishing a baseline based on price and reviews, I understand what you're saying... I also use reveiws to determine who I'm going to see, but I think it has to be with the understanding that the human factor always plays a part... I think the most intelligent way to use a review is to assume that what a lady does (BBBJ, BBBJTC, DATY, DFK, ETC.) establishes the MAXIMUM level of performance, not the standard or the minimum. Whether or not she'll do it all with you is determined in part by the hobbyist, probably within the first five minutes of the meeting... On a regular date, I firmly believe that a girl knows within the first few minutes if she's going to sleep with you that night... it's only us hapless guys who spend the evening wondering how it's going to end. With a pornstar, your attitude and approach right from the start have a lot to do with how the meeting is going to go, because in a one hour session the provider doesn't have a lot of time to decide if you're a great guy or a dick. Judgements are made quickly.
As to price, that has never determined the level of service... Price is simply a value determined by supply and demand, and what the market will bare.... If Pamela Anderson or Lucy Lui or the like suddenly started escorting for $2000 a pop, guys would be lined up, even if all they did was lie there while you had your way with them... The fantasy and the bragging rights alone would determine the worth: The performance would have little to do with it.
That's why pornstars who have been crucified for years on this board can still make a living doing it... If you've had a major jones for a particular lady, you'll overlook the bad reviews.
Eddie,
I can't argue with your logic. In fact it depresses me. I don't believe that it is right for the expectation of certain services to be at maximum reviews. I guess my reasons for wanting to see Pornstars is alittle different, and maybe I need to consider the GFE escorts instead. If I am going to pay $1000+ an hour, I have certain expectations. As for supply and Demand, you watch and see how the demand drops for some of these girls if the client walks away disappointed and feels ripped off. Again this does not apply to jerks or unclean clients. Eddie you have been at this alot longer then most of us. That is why many of us looked to your guidance for recommendations. Reviews posted by you and Doc let me to Kathy Willets. She gave me a rec. on Raquel Devine. I have not been disappointed. I still wish that there could be some type of baseline established but I guess it will not be the case since you are dealing with human interaction...
reason for Danecca's nervousness, is the fact that escorting and porn work, while similar on the surface, are actually quite different. On a porn set, the lady has in all likelihood worked with the actors before, may know the set crew, director, etc. and has a script and a controlled enviornment.
As an escort Danecca has to provide a service to someone she's never met before, and as you say, may not meet your expectations under a YMMV scenario, regardless of what her reviews say. Not to mention the fact that established clients with solid, verifiable reviews do blaze a path in many respects, and other clients cue off of them.
Your point about the ladies private lives is also well taken. I recently saw a fav lady of mine in a town I was visiting. An hour after our appointment was over, she called me on my cell, picked me up and took me to her home, to take action shots for her collection. Her photographer had a new camera set up he wanted to try out, she was still in the mood(don't know that she isn't ever not in the mood), and was kind enough to reward me with another lovely session, this one off the clock. Plus she e-mailed me several of the photos the following week.
Being established and known in the community and by your favorites, definitely pays dividends. MfSD.
As the commercial says... ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING!!!
to express the Business End of the hobby. LOL Also, don't fool yourself about the impact reviews have on the income of these ladies and agencies. They have a huge impact! Who would even know about Danecca without your review? She really hasn't made many videos and isn't well known but a good review can get her a lot of bookings. It is for this reason agencies cut deals with hobyists who actively post on the boards. Hobbyists should be skeptical of all reviews! This isn't exactly the most ethical business on the face of the earth. Not that there are many ethical businesses. In light of all the corruption in the business community these days, a healthy dose of skepticism is absolutely necessary!