Well, from the survey below, some interesting observations....
Dispite my statement that I didn't think any pornstar was worth $2,500 per hour, it seems that many disagree. I'm assuming that most of you who answered aren't CEO's of major companies who can afford to drop thousands of dollars at a time on a regular basis, so I guess fantasy plays a big part of the equation.
But let's extend the question.... would you still pay these amounts even if the lady had received numerous bad reviews? Are you willing to foresake a quality experience for the ability to fulfill a long-standing fantasy? Or taking it a step further, what if the lady didn't exactly get a "bad" review, but you learned that she didn't provide the things that you normally look for in a provider, such as bbbj, etc. .. Would you still shell out the big bucks?
In my humble opinion, the fantasy of meeting pornstars has two or three components. The obvious one is that you're getting to be with a woman who've you've watched have sex, and obviously there was something about her that appealed to you. But another important component, and one that is a KEY component to me, is that I want her to pretty much look like she does on tape and perform with me the way she does in her videos, with the obvious exception of having unprotected intercourse. But if she DFK's in her videos, gives bbbj's, takes facials, etc., that's a part of the fantasy, isn't it? If the girl is over the top on film, moaning and screaming and writhing all over the place, then when you meet her in person she just lays there, isn't that ultimately a disappointment? Or what about if she opens the door, and there she is in jeans and sneakers with little or no make-up on, and her hair unkempt? Are we still turned on just as much? I'm not personally into Greek, but if I was big on anal queens and had the hots for someone known for her on screen Greek, and when I was with her she told me she didn't do it, I'd certainly feel cheated.
I believe that the justification for the high price of a pornstar provider is that you're not just getting to be with the girl herself, be it Amber Lynn or Anna Malle or Keisha et. al., but that you're paying for the priviledge of being with the PERSONA that the girl has created on video And that persona includes hair, make-up, outfits and the same kind of actions and enthusiasms she shows in her vid's... I'm sure she's not always turned on and multi-orgasmic by her partners in a movie, but she's paid to act that way, just as she's being paid to be with you, so the results should be the same . Anything less is being cheated, and in a way, isn't it kind of false advertising?
-- Modified on 10/29/2002 3:12:13 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Add the performance factor and if it is not there, I would be unwilling to pay those prices...
I cannot imagine a more disappointing experience than if I were to meet Keisha for the very first time and once we were in bed she tells me, "Gee, I really do not let anybody but my co-stars screw my tits." The first word out of my mouth would have been WHHAAATTT????? (Thankfully Keisha is the best PSE on the planet and would never do that) But imagine the sadness of someone who was really into Lovette, and then found out that she won't even do Russian uncovered? (Happened to a lot of guys) Bottom line, when you are shelling out that kind of bank what you are looking for more than just the lady, you are looking for the persona that she brings to her films. If you can't get that, find a look alike!
that before I fork out the money to see a porn star... she STILL HAS TO LOOK AS GOOD AS SHE DID IN THE VIDEOS!!
I see requests and ISOs for porn stars who have been out the industry for 10 or more years... most of those same women look like hell now... why pay to see them?? (Isis Nile comes to mind).
I've also noticed that the porn stars who I really wanted to see, don't get into the escort biz until long after they've reached their "physical appearance" prime. My fantasy is not to be able to say I banged Jenna J... it's to say I banged her when she looked this good!
Krista mentions on her website not to expect her to look like she did during her career. I give her credit for saying that, but then I think "what's left for my fantasy?". Performance is important to me, but I can get a great lay from an average looking drunk bimbo in the local bar. I'm paying to get it on with a body I can't find except for in the porn world!
---Just one dick's opinion
I agree with both of you and if she is past her prime she shouldnt be charging the high rates.When you are paying top dollar that is what you should get.
But what if the guy rubs her the wrong way,and is to aggesive,or has A real negitive ora around him, that all makes A big difference in your intamate hr..
I hope you don't mind me adding in,but when the man is nice and sweet and accomidating it makes you want to go all out for him,therefore you can exspress your true self L.A.
chemistry LA, thats why escorting is different than a porn set. On the set, you and the actors are going to do your scene whether you like each other or not, or are having a bad day.
But as an escort, you have to try and accomadate the client as best you can. I agree, some clients have a bad attitude, and probably make it very difficult to be nice to them. Of course your input is valued LA, we want to know what you think too. MfSD.
LA, yes chemistry is a important part and I know many do not want to read this but the client is paying the provider and that money should asure a good time for the client. It is the provider's job to do a good job whether she is getting 200 or 2500. Sometimes the guy is no Richard Gere and that's why it's called work. If I go to a restaurant I don't care it the chef is having a bad day, if I see a doctor I don't care if he disagrees with me politically and a provider should make sure I have a good time. I know I sound harsh and many many providers always put their best foot forward but others think because they have a name they don't have to. Remember clients will review every part of the session especially the bad parts. While the client is in the room the mental camera is rolling.
To Fast Eddie and LA,
I agree with both of you whole heartedly. I just want to add my 2 cents. often times women in the movies are worked on by a couple of beauty experts. While I would never say that a girl should not present herself to her best advantage, I will say that some chicks don't wear the amount of makeup in real life that you guys see in a video. Also I've noticed that a lot of you really like DFK which not all girls are into even with their costars (if they did it in the movie, the director probably made them do it for cable). So I guess my point is simple, if you are couteous to the lady expect some of her real personality to come out. You will probably find out a few things about her you did not know.
Kiki DFK What if the director wanted them to do it for cable ? What if the customer wanted them to do it in session. She would do it for a director but not for a customer ?
If the girl refuses to do something for a director, that potentially have an impact on her screen career, the ramifications are more serious. That is probably why alot of the girls do anal but do not like it. On a one on one encounter if the girl does not want to do it she should not have to. The point that everyone is missing is this... In a movie, if you are paid for a scene and you accept you have probably negotiated and agreed to do certain things for that scene. Expectations are set and agreed upon. This needs to happen with a client. The two need to communicate before the session is set what expectations are set, this can done in a non-overt way but it probably needs to happen.
I see your point but I dont think they should do anything they dont want to do in videos also.Also the girls do the movies to get known so they can make better money featuring and escorting.We get the fantasy from what we see in video thats why the rate is higher....
Kiki,
Thanks for your input.... Regarding the make-up, I understand that beauty experts can make a girl look totally different... and some women are better at doing their own make-up than others.
My point was that it's a matter of the girl understanding the mind of the fan and realize what a fantasy you are for us, and to make an effort to fulfill that fantasy...
A few PS providers I've seen, like Taylor Wayne and Kathy Willets, looked like they had just gotten ready to shoot a box cover when they opened the door to their hotel room... Hair, make-up, nails, lingerie, platform stillettos... the whole nine yards.... and then I've also met some pornstars who answered the door in jeans and a T-shirt with little or no makeup on... in one case, if it hadn't of been for a few tattoos that I knew she had, I would have thought I was being scammed with a look-a-like.
What I'm saying is that you don't have to look like a box cover photo to make us happy, but it's nice to know that you did the best you could to make the fantasy a reality for your fans... I don't think anyone could expect more, and I don't think you'd ever disappoint an admirer.
Regarding the DFK, well, that's a touchy subject... To many hobbyists, it's very high on their wish list of activities. For others, it's a non-issue... they could care less. And I know for some providers, it's an issue. I've seen two providers who didn't kiss. It wasn't a problem for me with one, because she never kissed in her videos, but I was disappointed in the other, because in all of her vid's, she not only did it, but she did it with great skill and enthusiasm... And that's the kind of thing that drives us hobbyists nuts....
It would be like seeing Terri Weigel and not have her scream at about 110 decibels....
I do have an issue with your response that a director "made" a girl do it..... Pornstars generally make more money in one hour with a fan then they do for an entire day on a movie set, so if they're willing to do it for a director, then they should be willing to do it for the fan who is paying for the priviledge.... Now if you were to say that there's a health issue involved, and that you're more comfortable with a fellow performer than a hobbyist, that's a different story, but I don't think being "made" to do it is a valid reason.
I guess the simple answer would be to start having the girls post on the hobbyists as well so if a guy turns out to be a consistent asswhole everyone will know it....
In any event LA my thought to what you said is this.. If you sense the guy is a jerk, and women have a 6th sense about this,
walk away don't take the money....
LA, I understand what you're saying... if you read any of my posts, you'll find that I am a great advocate of trying to establish a chemistry with the lady... I've always preached treating the woman with respect and act like a gentleman... like it's a blind date... and that goes a long way to making the time together good for both parties...
I do think though that while chemistry between the two people will usually add to the general atmosphere of the experience... (laughing, snuggling, the lady perhaps spending more time then allotted, etc) unless the guy is a total and complete dick, or displays poor hygene, then there's a certain level of performance that should be provided to match the premium paid. A producer hires a girl for a video with expectations of what she will or will not do on film. If she's not willing to do them, she doesn't get the job... She might not like to do them, but ultimately it's her decision to accept the role or to pass.
That certain level of performance is totally up to the individual lady herself.... I'm not saying that an adult star provider should ever do anything that she doesn't feel comfortable with, but I am saying that she should be aware of the way most pornstar hobbyists think.... You are all fantasy ladies for us... we put you up on a sexual pedestal as the kind of lover we want to be with based on your videos... intelligent people know that you aren't sex-starved women who want to have sex with 50 guys at once, or to have a dp every day of the week, but we do base our fantasies on the demeanor and attitude you exhibit on tape... basically I'm saying it's not the specific acts themselves, but how you react to them, and we're looking for that same kind of reaction.
And by the way, I also believe that if a guy is too agressive or something about him just doesn't feel right, the girl should have every right to either refuse to go ahead with the meeting or to end it quickly... no one should have to suffer abuse, either verbal, mental or physical.....
-- Modified on 10/29/2002 9:44:44 PM
-- Modified on 10/29/2002 9:48:03 PM
that love is a two way street, regardless of how it comes, be it through hobbying or anything else. The ladies have every right in the world to expect to be treated tendely and with respect. Guys, if you treat them like a comodity, and you have a lousy experience, some of that lays with you!!
I'm not as critical about the age thing... some of the ladies still look fantastic, even if they're not quite up to their younger days... but then again, which of us is? And I have to say that almost without exception, my best experiences were with Pornstars who were over thirty, and in some cases well over thirty.... For one thing, they got into porn when it was strictly features instead of a lot of gonzo, so they have a better understanding about the "fantasy" aspect of what they do, and seem to realize that it's the overall package that makes a "Star", and not just the fact that they've been in a few videos. Plus, as a whole they're a lot more skilled in the erotic arts.
And dispite their age, Keisha still looks great, as does Nina Hartley, Raylin and some others.... Anna Malle still looks incredible... in fact, I think a couple of PS's in their late thirties or early forties look better today then when they were 25... Shanna McCullough and Bianca Seven come to mind... when they were young, they were out of shape... not fat, but just not real toned. Shanna and Bianca both have better bodies today then they did then.
Your observation that many pornstars don't escort until they're past their "physical prime" is kind of stating the obvious.... When they're at their peak, they're in demand to make videos, and consequently are in demand to tour the strip clubs, which is where they made a ton of money... When they get older, their income decreases significantly because they don't draw the crowds at the clubs that they once did, so escorting is a way for them to extend their careers at an acceptable financial level.
As for being able to say you banged Jenna J..... I don't know about you, but she's still one of the hottest ladies on the club circut... she may not be as "cute" as she was 5 or 8 years ago, but she is still smokin' hot.
Hi FASTEDDIE,just today I had someone that was just so aggresive ,he was grabbing my breasts as if he wanted to take the home ouch! also instead of going with the moment of things he would force the back of my head to kiss him ,ill do that when im feeling comfortable,it was A terrable hr. then when he first got here he wouldnt stop trying to nagotiate donations and time ,when everything was clear A week ago ,my god
any advice? all you guys are pretty cool thanks for adding in input........L.A.
He was just an ASSHOLE!
I think that the negotiating when you arrive instead of up front is very unprofessional. We all get upset when a girl upcharges us so why would some guy think that the inverse is ok.
If it starts this way you can probably bet the hour will not go well and maybe it is time to call it and walk away.
I don't know both sides of the story, but no matter what is paid, etc. each person needs to treat the other with respect and grabbing in an inappropriate way or pushing on the back of any persons head is not respectful. I am sorry you had to go through that.
Just some thoughts
Unfortunately there are assholes in every walk of life, and in your business you're bound to meet one now and then... As to advice, if you feel he's just being agressive, and doesn't pose a threat to you physically, I'd just tell him to cool it or you're going to end the meeting then and there. If you felt that you were in danger, well, that's another story... you probably don't want to antagonize someone like that.
But to tell the truth, the fact that he started off by trying to renegotiate the fee and time showed no respect for you right from the beginning... in those cases, it might be best just to explain that you don't feel that you could give him the type of experience he's looking for, and cancel the meeting before it started.
Agree with Eddie,
You need to walk away if the guy is a jerk. Its too bad their isn't a forum for the ladies to vent on the asswholes who they have encountered but that would probably be bad for business...
When he tried to renegotiate the fee, you should have told him that after seeing his sorry ass it would need to be renegotiated up instead of down! That would have shown him the door immediately!
A lot of these guys are watching the porn movies some of you gals are in, and frankly, they can be rough as hell. I don't like any porn that humiliates women, slaps them around, has them crawling around eating out of dog food dishes, etc., but that stuff is out there.
I don't excuse for one minute, what some of these cretins do with escorts. Unfortunately, I think some of these guy's fantasies are abusive, and they get off on inflicting pain. The haggling over the donation, after a price has been agreed to is just low class, another indication of a poor client both literally and metaphoricaly, and ensures that the lady will be pissed off. But again, I don't think some of these charecters get it, or even care. Mi dos centavos .02.........MfSD.
I would also like to add my 2 cents. I have noticed even in the porn industry that many of the older stars are making mini comebacks? Ginger Lynn is still beautiful. In fact, I would take a woman in her mid-thirties to early 40s any day over some young starlet who doesn't have the maturity. Women who are older tend to be more comfortable in themselves and their sexuality, and that is truly beautiful and exciting.. Our society puts to much emphasis on youth..
I would not spend even $500-$1,000 per hour just to fulfill some fantasy only to be let down, let alone more.
The good thing is however, that I believe (maybe naively)that many of the PS providers realize that we are trying to live out a fantasy, and they try their best to deliver on that fantasy. My personal experience has been just this and more!
However, we as hobbyist still need to treat the ladies with respect and not go overboard or expect something that may be considered over the line. But I do agree that with a PSE you do expect a certain level of service, that hopefully you've discussed or negotiated beforehand. IMHO