it was news to me.

been in the works for awhile now..rumor has it if it passes it will deal a death blow to the porn industry as we know it..production is already 75% down from what it used to be..porn aficionados love bareback compared to wearing a hat..if these porn companies start shooting a product no one will buy..the game is over..i know several porn stars who will opt for early retirement because the money will be dried up..a lot of girls are shooting their own videos for their websites and avoiding porn companies altogether.time will tell..but change is on the way..

Might be time to rent out the spare building in Vegas...

probably a good time to move the entire industry there..it just might happen..

I don't want to get red/blue state political but do a search, there is no significant voter fraud going on (how about 400 cases of fraud since 1997 out of nearly 400 million ballots cast), its certain groups trying to suppress certain voters...Hence, they have an AGENDA and nothing will stop them...Well, this is analogous to the LA condom ballot foolishness, its a group with an AGENDA, AHF, trying to attach a solution to a non-existent problem...And come hell or high water, they'll try to accomplish their goal of making condoms mandatory in porn...

We have differing opinions on this naturally...Some have no problems with condoms in porn, WICKED Pictures is doing quite well...For me, I'd rather watch "Prime Minister's Questions" on C-Span that view a condom movie....Just like many find the NV. brothels a great place to see porn stars...I get that, i do, I'm not being sarcastic...I know those places can have a resort type setting with a pool, bar, large rooms, etc...And since its legal in select NV counties, it provides a more coomfortable atomosphere for some....But for me, I cannot book BB appts. there thus i will never, ever go there under any circumstance...

about having to watch vaginal or anal sex where a condom is used.  Big fucking deal, as far as I'm concerned.  

Really, the only visual that would look really bad would be if condoms are required for oral sex.

But, that is just one man's opinion.

I hate wearing them, but I do to protect against disease (and pregnancy), and I have absolutely no problem seeing someone else doing the same.

You could not be more wrong. Not all voter fraud is detected, just as not all burglary is detected. But basing voter fraud statistics on the number of people caught and prosecuted is pointless -- it is ridiculously easy to vote fraudulently, because there is no surveillance possible without a system of ID verification. Only the most stupid and sloppy voter frauds have any chance of being caught and prosecuted. If you ever need a good laugh you should try to track down court reports of the handful of cases each year where people were convicted of voter fraud. These nitwits are just a shaky tier in the gene pool above Darwin Awards winners.

Requiring voter ID would in no way suppresses any particular group of voters, because most everyone has ID or can easily get an ID without any hassle.

And the only people that I can imagine could possibly survive life without a photo ID are those who are 100% committed to living a life "off the grid." Here is a list of all the everyday activities where photo ID is required.

adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
to cash a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to rent an apartment
to rent a hotel room
to rent a car
to rent furniture
to rent tools and equipment
to receive welfare
to receive social security
to receive food stamps
to buy cigarettes
to buy alcohol
to buy a bus ticket
to buy a cell phone
to buy an antihistamine over-the-counter medication
to go into a casino
to go into a bar
to enroll in grade school, high school or college
to pick up a package from the post office, FedEx or UPS
to pick up a prescription

So, why should voting NOT require an ID? Is it not an important process (at least as important as most of the tasks listed above)? It seems to me that we share a mutual interest in ensuring that elections at all levels are conducted with the maximum possible degree of fairness and integrity.

Only those who have something to gain from voter fraud are interested in suppressing the reasonable safeguards needed to preserve the standard of one citizen/one vote.

Sorry to steer this off topic, but I tend to overreact that way when I come across fact-free drivel packaged up and presented as the indisputable truth.

Progress requires change. Porn will survive condoms.

You may THINK you're a constitutional law expert, but you are not...

Several of the things listed (beside the guns) ARE Constitutional rights.  You would know that if you read Supreme Court decisions over the last 200 years...  The court has expanded rights to include things that aren't specifically spelled out.  For example, many people take about the Right to Privacy as a Constitutional right.  It is, but only because the Supreme Court made it so.  You won't find a Right to Privacy mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.  To take one off the posted list, the Supreme Court has said that people have a right to buy property.  After all, many people came to this country in the 1600s and 1700s to get property because they couldn't get it in their native countries, particularly England.  But, you won't find that enumerated in the Constitution.

You are correct that voting is a right and that right should not require a "payment".  On the other hand, the government, the people running, and the people in general do have a right to know that the person voting is who they say they are and that the person votes once, and only once.

Have you ever heard about the mess in Chicago over dead people voting?  It's also happened in Florida, Missouri and other locations.  There was also a scandal, back in the 1920s I think, when people were voting more than once using different names?  The phrase "vote early vote often" is more than just a joke.  Look it up....  I've seen problems in my local community at the polls of attempts to prevent people from voting by having someone walk into the poll and use their name.  The politician running gets a vote, and the person who was going to vote for his opponent is denied the opportunity to cast that vote.  It's happened more than you think.  In a recent election more than 100 absentee ballots were tossed out because the people who mailed in the ballots supposedly voted at the polls in person.  Which one was real?  Which one fake?  Which of those were the person forgetting the he/she cast an absentee ballot? Which of them was someone voting using that person's name&address?  No way to know for sure but there's probably a significant portion of those votes that were fraudulent one way or the other.

I fully support having to show ID to vote.  I do not support a "national id" card.

Aside from all that though, why is this discussion in a board about Porn Stars?

I think you have a skewed view of voter fraud and are probably listening to Libertarians who are so vehemently opposed to government intrusion and the need for ID that they are willing to deny that a problem exists, when it really does.  Some facts:

From a Supreme Court decision:
"Flagrant examples of such fraud … have been documented throughout this Nation's history by respected historians and journalists," the court said, "[and] not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election."
  ---
Four local officials and party activists were convicted in 2011 of voter fraud in Troy for forging enough absentee ballots to "likely have tipped the city council and county elections" in 2009. Two veteran Democratic political operatives said voter fraud is an accepted way of winning elections. One of them who pled guilty, Anthony DeFiglio, told police that such fraud was a "normal political tactic."
  ---
In March 2012, the county sheriff and clerk in Lincoln County, W.Va., pled guilty to voter fraud. They stuffed enough bogus absentee ballots into ballot boxes to change the outcome of a 2010 Democratic primary election. Was this a one-time incident? Probably not, since the Lincoln County auditor was also found guilty of voter fraud in 2005.
  ---
An ongoing review of voter registration rolls in Florida has already found almost 100 confirmed non-citizens registered to vote, half of whom voted in at least one previous election; this in a state that decided the 2000 presidential election by slightly more than 500 votes. During the Bush administration, the Justice Department convicted more than a dozen non-citizens of illegally registering and voting in Florida elections. And the state has thousands more possibly unlawful registrations to investigate.  
  ---

Voter fraud is real.  The reason that so few people have been prosecuted for voter fraud is ONLY because it is hard to catch them at it.  It takes time to review the ballots, collect the evidence, and by then the people participating are usually gone.  It's only when, as in the W. Va case, the fraud is organized by someone and the fraud can be traced back to them, that they are prosecuted.

But, why is the issue of voter fraud being raised in a discussion forum about Porn Stars?

(except the gun part) You don't have a constitutional right to buy booze or cigarettes....You DO have a constitutional right to vote....And when you make people pay for a right to vote, (ie; buying ID, esp for those who don't drive, have no passport, etc.) it amounts to a poll tax, which is un-constitutional...Remember Robert Bork, two reasons why his hearing was so heated was that he believed in poll taxes and literacy tests for voters...Voting should be simple and free...people fought and died for the right to vote, its not a privilege to vote - its a RIGHT..

So you may THINK your're a constitutional law expert, but you are not...

I tried not to get political, the point of equating voter fraud with the LA condom initiative, was showing the analogy of 2 things where no problem exists, yet groups with agendas came up with solutions to a problem that doesn't exist..

Re; LA condom ballot, ok, perhaps i'm biased on the condom topic but why does AHF feel this is an issue that should be on a ballot...Aren't ballot initiatives for things like how to fund a stadium, etc..The porn industry is doing fine on its own with the testing routine in place, not sure what the problem is...As for voter fraud, the point i made yesterday was that it to, is not a widespread problem....There have been far more UFO sightings in the last decade than there have been cases of voter fraud...(and yes, i saw this report about voter fraud yesterday on Politics Nation on MSNBC, and before someone whines about MSNBC, the report had a verifiable source)....Again, since 1997, over 400 million ballots cast, less than 400 cases of voter fraud...That's WAY less than 1%...

In closing, voter fraud and LA porn ballot initiative = 2 things where solutions were created for a NON existent problem...

just a prelude of what is to come..if it passes it is inevitable..interstate 15 will be quite busy..

-- Modified on 7/6/2012 11:04:56 AM

I never claimed to be a constitutional scholar, and the constitutional right to a vote has no bearing on whether an ID is required. Does it say anything in the Constitution, pro or con, about the right to vote without an ID. If not, then that decision is left to Congress or the individual states to make rules about how it conducts elections. You completely undo your own argument by noting that ID is required to exercise the right to bear arms. So what you're really saying that it's perfectly acceptable to suppress the individual exercise of some rights and not others.

And why bring up literacy tests or poll taxes, when no one is currently advocating them? Maybe because you're in search of an argument that you can win. OK, I'm against poll taxes and literacy tests, but I strongly favor voter ID laws to preserve the integrity of elections and prevent fraud.

And again, in every state where voter ID laws were introduced, they also included provisions to make it easy for anyone without an ID to get one at no cost. But again, if you look at that list of things where ID is required, you can see (if you want to) that anyone without an ID is without an ID by choice and has opted out of daily life, with the inability to vote a byproduct of that decision.

Acting like voter ID is an unconstitutional bigoted scourge is nothing more than laying down cover for people who have a vested interest in cheating and attempting to steal elections.

Not that the law is necessarily much of an impediment, but is it legal to shoot porn in Nevada / Vegas?

Well, your correct about that Mr. French, I certainly am not a constitutional law expert, i'm not even an attorney, but one does not need to be Jonathan Turley or Jeffrey Toobin to have a basic understanding of some constitution 101 characteristics...I strongly object to voter id laws as it disenfranchises voters, then again, that's the game plan of its proponents, no question...

However, i have no problem showing my ID (and test) to porn stars, that kind of photo id check is ok, lol...

I think the point here is that some would say that a problem DOES exist.  You can disagree if you like.  But, I know a number of porn stars, both current and former who believe that a problem exists.  So do a number of people from outside the industry (not including AHF).  Whether or not they have another agenda I don't know.  What I know is that some people think there is a problem and have proposed a fix.  And, yes, as I've pointed out in another message, voter fraud DOES exist and it IS a problem.  MSNBC may not agree, and you may not agree, but the Supreme Court disagrees and there have been many, many instances reported in other news sources.

As to why a ballot question: I'm not familiar with California laws but from what I've seen, ballot initiatives like this are common and necessary to the political process.  It's a way to gauge how much of the public agrees or disagrees with a particular position.   Note that it doesn't mean that a law will be passed, nor does it mean that the law won't be found to be unconstitutional when challenged (such as what happened with the laws barring gay marriage).  But, one way to determine if a law is needed to allow or prevent something is to ask the people.  I think some other states work this way as well.

Personally, I am not in favor of the use of condoms in porn movies.  And I'm definitely against unnecessary legislation.  I'm not against the political process nor polling individuals in a jurisdiction to find out if a law is desired, necessary, or whatever.  What bothers me is that so much time, effort and money is being directed to this issue that could be spent on other things that are FAR more important and necessary.  I wonder why organizations like AHF are spending money on forcing people to use condoms rather than finding a cure for AIDS and other diseases.  Wouldn't that make more sense?

As a woman who does porn...I don't see the big deal one way or the other. We do get tested oncea month...however I have heard the debate about (not knowing what the talent does in their  spare time).  I'm curious why someone would feel tht it would take away from the movie.

No. Los Angeles and maybe one other east coast city are the only places where it's legal. Being an L.A. transplant, and having lived here many years, I can say no other city is as big of a sell-out. I can't wait to leave.

Porn should be about the models, photography, direction, and video quality anyway.

To your first paragraph, fair enough..We can agree to disagree..

IMO, ballot inaitives are ok when your asking citizens something to effect like "Do you support additional .005% increase in drink tax to fund (insert name) Arena"?...yes or no
But something like Prop 8 from CA 2008 election is whole different ballgame...I think reason its got challenged was something to effect like you can't have ballot iniative on civil rights type issue...Don't quote me on that but its something along those lines..Interesting thing about the current Prop 8 challenge is the 2 lawyers SUPPORTING the side of gay marriage (David Boies and Ted Olson) were on the OPPOSITE sides of arguably one of the most contrvoersial SCOTUS cases ever, Bush V Gore...Boies represented Gore, and Olson, Bush..

To 3rd paragraph, not much of a surprise but i don't want condoms in films, nor my porn star appointments, and i'm very firm on both..And you're right, AHF could better spend time and money on many other causes than being the condom Gestapos...

Also, enclosed article for you...