Anyone outing a porn star working under an alias will be moderated indefinitely.

I don't know how many fucking times I have to post this, but one more time, in caps, because, yes, I am shouting: DON'T OUT PERFORMERS WHO ARE WORKING UNDER AN ALIAS. DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF THE PERFORMER YOU THINK IT IS WHEN YOU SEE AN AD WITH AN ALIAS AND WONDER IF IT IS HER, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A REALLY FAMOUS PERFORMER WITH A NAME VERY SIMILAR TO HER PERFORMING NAME. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SHE WORKS UNDER THAT ALIAS BECAUSE SHE CHOOSES TO, AND DOESN'T WANT HER NAME ON TER.

So, am I going to have to post this every week? Or are you people going to figure it out soon?

This is a place for SHARING INFORMATION.

If you don't allow information to be shared, you're not really doing your job and you're hurting everyone.

Of course, this message probably won't see the light of day...

The thing is if I follow your logic, I don't see the difference between posting the following two statements.

"Provider X really is Porn Star Y."

and:

"Porn Star Y is available through Agency Z on their UTR list."

In fact, for certain values of X, Y and Z, these are completely true statements. So why should I as a moderator (or you as a poster) honor agency UTR lists and not honor touring porn stars under an alias?

But then again, I'm Forrest Gump- not a smart man (certainly not as smart as you). I am stupid enough to think that if a porn star or model wishes to tour as public as all get out, or touring NOT using her performing name, or having her availability kept UTR via an agency, or wants to be delisted and not discussed here at all, she gets to have that wish honored here. That's how it's been since before I got here.

Some number of years ago, I took a law course and the teacher told a story about a woman who had some guy arrested for "staring at her" when she was waiting for the bus each morning.  The judge apparently dismissed the case saying something along the lines of "if you don't want to be seen, don't leave your house".  It was a more involved case than that but that's the relevant quote.

To paraphrase that line: if you don't want it known you do porn, don't do porn.  If you don't want it known you are an escort, don't be an escort.

And what does "UTR" mean anyway when one agency lists a woman as UTR and another agency puts the same woman on their public pages?  Is the woman UTR or not?  

And what about women who want to be UTR who are "outed" by their representatives, agents, or others?  A few years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting up with Jana Jordan and Jayme Langford.  Both wanted to be totally UTR, and I was told not to tell anyone they were available.  When I told them that an agent they had signed up with (Lita Chase) had listed them in ads on Eros-NY.com they were angry about it but what could they do?

As for "Provider x is really porn star x" kind of statements - if people know it enough to post about it, then it isn't really that big a secret, is it?  If it's already known, why not be able to talk about it?

There are several porn stars, penthouse pets, playboy centerfolds etc. that truly ARE UTR.  They are not listed on anyone's web site, they are not reviewed, they are not discussed, their info isn't listed or traded anywhere online.  If you ask their agent if they are available, you would likely be told that she doesn't escort.  The way you find out about them, is that they or their agent approach you.  Those are the ones whose identities should be kept secret - not the ones that you can find online on various agency's websites, or with a google search or even by using sites like tineye.com to match up the pictures or what have you.

Again, this is a site for sharing information.  If the information is out there on the web, and known, and can be found out with a search or two, I see nothing wrong with sharing that information with someone who hasn't done the searching, or doesn't know how to use tools like tineye or a newbie who doesn't know that this information is out there and readily available elsewhere.

There's a HUGE difference between things that are truly secret, and what's on the web.  And, my feeling is that if it's on the web, it should be shareable here.

Now, I'm NOT saying that everything is fair game.  If something is well-hidden behind a password protected site then no, I wouldn't consider that "public" information.  Hobbyist's real names, the real names of porn stars that haven't been revealed elsewhere on the net like on pornwikileaks, escort's home addresses and telephone numbers, etc. are all non-public pieces of information that aren't and shouldn't be talked about in an open forum.  But, if the information is already out there, what is the harm with talking about it here?  Many things you've refused to allow ARE readily available bits of information that are out there on public sites.

Oh, and let's look at an economic data point too:  TER wants income - this is a business, after all.  Doesn't it make sense from an economic perspective to allow discussions here rather than have people leave here and go join some other site where the same information that's banned here is widely and openly discussed or available?  How much money is lost when people go elsewhere because they can't find the information they want *here*? If I go to CVS to get information on a particular medication, or to get that medication, and the pharmacist won't talk to me about it, will I continue to go to CVS or will I go somewhere else like WalGreens?  I use that as an example because I can't mention other review sites in a post.

It's because of policies here that MANY escorts I've talked to in the last year have said they don't bother with TER, and it's because of policies here that other sites have popped up and grown in membership and it's because of policies here that escorts have COMPLAINED ABOUT LOSING BUSINESS.  And, that includes several who have not been able to get ads posted, or have not been able to be discussed on the boards because they were delisted for reasons OTHER than asking to be delisted, and that includes escorts who can't be discussed here because reviews of them have not been accepted, and probably other reasons too.  

Oh, and what about those escorts who ask to be delisted because all they get here is bad reviews and they don't want that information known.  Should they not be discussed simply because they were delisted?  Even if they are still advertising on Eros, Backpage, and other sites?

I could go on.  But, you're never going to "get it" and you're never going to change so what's the point?

"A few years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting up with Jana Jordan and Jayme Langford.  Both wanted to be totally UTR, and I was told not to tell anyone they were available.  When I told them that an agent they had signed up with (Lita Chase) had listed them in ads on Eros-NY.com they were angry about it but what could they do?"

So your feeling is that if someone else is a dick about private information they should have kept confidential, hey too bad so sad, it's cool for me to pass it along. If I don't do it, someone else will.

Is that a reasonable characterization of how you feel moderators and board members should handle the UTR/working under an alias issue?

As for the rest of it, banned/delisted/mentioning other boards etc. ... changes to those policies might have merit. I know I'm supposed to be censoring you while being in bed with THE MAN, but I think you might be surprised with how what you think I think and what I actually think might be at odds with each other. I think we may well see a lot of changes coming in the next few months (one of which is me leaving, not because I disapprove of any and every possible change that's in the pipeline, but because I think we should rotate through moderators, and I never planned on keeping the job forever anyway). You might like them.

The analogy is quite uncorrect: the activity involved in escorting is 'supra-law'...the issue is that this activity is illegal, so there are no analogy from a public law perspective; analogy could be found with other illegal activity. Taking the bus each morning is one things, taking someone within closed door is another thing.
This bring to my second point: the pillar of the UTR-escorting underl Alias, is based on an implicit assumption, which is the following: any lady, has all her own rights to decide for herself which modality of public exposure is a garantee for her privacy to be protected. Her will is the deciding factor, and no one but the person in question should dictate how, where, and in which form, her privacy should be handled. TER policy should follow such 'will' and treat iit accordingly to the rules that TER policy has in its statutory regulation about the matter. Moderators should be the filter of such person will and proceed accordingly.
Third: you have an idea of information that is quite narrow; information has a social life that throught networks and informal chanel can harm people. Sharing is one property of information, but sharing is not a sufficient condition to be safe. Information, especially when involve activity which are 'above the law' is not the same as activity which are in order with the law, indeed illegal activity has a concept of information that is structured way different from the normal state of affair.
TER policy is not about sharing but about protecting, and since you missed this crucial difference all your reasoning is a fallacy that is open to disaster.
Fourth: the fact, that the information is in some place and public available is not a condition to which TER should base its policy, because again, this information is handled in such a way to protect the people who are involved in this business. By protecting these people, TER protect everyone...if those performer are not protected then no on it is.
Fifth, and last point: each person involved in this business had several option, be publicly available, be semi-UTR, be completely UTR, be available under an Alias, be UTR-but-having a public brand, and so on.

It is not Mr. French business to decide who, where and how the information regarding such a person should be handled in public forum. It is the person who will decide for herself, and the job of TER, its moderator and the hobbyst is to follow the 'will' of such person, not behave in such a way that this 'will' will jeopardize it. Protecting the will of such person is the best way to be safe, not sharing.

Sincerely,
BM

You wrote:
" TER policy is not about sharing but about protecting, and since you missed this crucial difference all your reasoning is a fallacy that is open to disaster. "

Actually, since much of your argument is based on this one point, and it's reductio ad absurdum argument the rest is not worth commenting on.

What you are saying is that TER policy should be about protecting because TER policy is about protecting.

Feh.

Let's look at it this way:  TER's policy is to protect the providers EVEN FROM THEMSELVES.  Look at the rules and you'll see that's true.  Why should TER protect anyone?  TER is a business.  That business has two public parts: Reviews and Discussion.

If TER policy is correct and that escorts should be protected, then I'd estimate that about 90% of the reviews if not all of them should be deleted.  There are a lot of bad reviews.  There are a lot of reviews that police can use as evidence.  There are a lot of reviews that have been posted without the girl's or agency's knowledge, etc.  If TER policy really is to protect the ladies, then delete all the reviews.  Anything else is pretty hypocritical.

The second part of that are the discussion boards.  The ladies can come here and advertise on the boards if they wish.  There are rules for that.  That's fine.   If the discussion could only be limited to those who know about TER and advertise here, that would limit discussion tremendously.  So, I think you'd agree that it would not be proper to do so.

So, therefore, we must be able to talk about and discuss ladies who (a) don't know about TER (b) don't advertise on TER, and (c) don't care about TER.  Otherwise, discussion groups would be very boring.  If TER policy is to protect the ladies then, really, they should bar any discussion about anyone in those three categories and stick to allowing discussions only about those that advertise here.  That really wouldn't make sense to do, would it?

So, now we have the fact that we can agree on that other things should be allowed to be discussed here.  The discussion boards, are here for people to share information.  Otherwise, what is their point?  So, again, I think you can agree that information is to be shared.  So, why not share information that is already widely known elsewhere and discuss those things here on this board (and other boards on TER) that are already well known?

Consider this: if the information is already well known then how is TER actually protecting anyone?  The information is out there.  Someone who knows how to use google, tineye, and other websites that I'm not allowed to mention here, can find the information.  Do you really feel like you're getting your money's worth from TER if you can't get that information here and have to go somewhere else to get it?  Really?

Finally, if we hold everything you said in your post above as incontrovertible fact, then TER might as well just close up shop and we can go back to the days when all of the information about "escorts" is "underground" and we'd be doing pretty much EXACTLY what the Moral Majority, and right-wing Republicans (and other groups) want - keeping the dirty little secret that people exchange sex for money a dirty little secret.

Finally, to address one other point, no it is not my business to decide who, where, and how the information regarding escorts should be handled in a public forum.  It's TER's business.  I'm attempting to point out that (a) it's probably costing them business and (b) the policy is, IMO, wrong and should be changed.  If enough people agree with me, maybe the policy CAN be changed.  But, in the end, it is TER's playground and their rules.  And, if you don't like them, like I don't like them, I argue against them, and find other ways to get the information out even if that means directing people to other sites that also have reviews, and discussions, and don't have what I consider to be ridiculous rules that stifle communication and information.

To quote from the musical 1776: "Well, in all my years I ain't never heard, seen nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about."  That's pretty much my philosophy.

Once two people know something, it's no longer a secret.  

If the information is readily available, it's no longer private information.

If someone reveals private information AND IS THE FIRST TO DO SO, then that person gets revealed as a dick, and others will probably never share private information with him again.  There are, of course, certain exceptions to that where life or safety are concerned.  Sort of like attorney ethics: attorneys can't reveal anything their clients tell them, unless what the clients tell them makes the attorney believe the client will break the law, or harm someone or do something else bad - then the attorney is OBLIGATED to reveal the information.  There are always exceptions.  Or, at least, there are always greater concerns than "privacy".

And, to answer another point from elsewhere: it's not that I think I should be the arbiter of what secrets should be revealed and what shouldn't.  In the end, we each should AND MUST make that decision for ourselves.  It's part of our character and displays to the world who we are, and others in the world can decide from our actions or inactions whether or not we should be trusted by them.  I don't think it's TER's (or anyone's) right, or responsibility, to make that decision for me.

But, to get back to the point here, if I know that certain information is on site A, site B, site C, and site D but TER thinks the person is UTR or doesn't want that information known, why should TER's decision/policy be the dominant one?  The information is already out there if you just look for it.  

I remember some time ago, famous porn star who shall remain nameless for the moment posted an ad here on this board.  Two (or so) topics/posts later, someone posted a question asking if that porn star was available.  I posted that she was, and posted a link to my review of her, as well as, iirc, to the post by her advertising herself as being available and repeating the contact information that she herself posted not more than 2 days previously.  So, why would TER remove my post on the basis of that porn star being UTR and why would I get in trouble with The Powers That Be over it?  Please, for Ghu's sake, please tell me how that makes sense?   Ok, yes, that was years ago and, really, it's water under the bridge.  But, please don't argue the point from the position that TER is always right.  Anyone who does will get my scorn and laughter.

We come here together to discuss mutual interests, to share information of benefit to everyone, and to enjoy ourselves.  If we constantly have to watch what we say, self-monitor our words (or have moderators do it) or otherwise have our discussions stifled by policies, then why bother coming here in the first place?  Why not go somewhere where we can talk freely?  And, what enjoyment can anyone get from having their posts moderated all the time or deleted?

Also, there is the problem of knowing what information is accurate and what information is not.  If someone posts an ad on Eros and someone asks here if it's real, and the lady in question has been delisted, how does it help people who come here seeking accurate information for those who have the information not to be able to say, yes, it's real.  Currently, as I understand the policy, we can't if the lady has been delisted.  It just doesn't make any sense.

If TER wants to be dominant in its arena, then it MUST do what the others don't and MUST allow the sharing of accurate information, and MUST allow people to post about people who are delisted/banned/whatever, or UTR, or whatever, because if TER doesn't allow this, and other sites do, then there would be no reason for people to come *here*, they'll go *there*.  You'd be surprised at the number of stores, for example, that have started carrying goods that they previously didn't because they want and need that business - if they don't have those items to sell, customers will go elsewhere.

Keeping information open, available and shared is not just a good idea in general, it's good business sense.  You're right - given history, I'd be VERY surprised if you had any thoughts that were similar to my own and I might be surprised if what you actually think is different from what I think you think, as well as what I know about you and what you've done in the past.  I know you'd never let me air here what should be aired here and that's ok.  The fact that I think you're a hypocrite should in no way influence what you do.

As for any changes that are coming down the pike... well, I have to wait and see.  I'm not going to comment or guess about something that hasn't occurred yet.  But, if it's as successful and wonderful as the roll-out of the new site was, well, I can only say that maybe we should all be afraid... very afraid...

Lets keep it simple and focused, The main point is privacy.

The provider has every right to her privacy even when she provides under a different name.
Even if it is known on some other site, it shouldn't be repeated on the main board.

Did you even think for a minute of why the lady is doing that?  Maybe she does not want her family/boyfriend/husband/child to find out. Or she could be staying low key because she has a stalker.  (I knew a lady that had to be low key because of a stalker and it did not end well)
So, before you all start bragging and posting everywhere when you get information like this, THINK before you act.  

Why cant the ladies get the same level of privacy as they extend to us.  If you meet a hobbyist with the screenname of MrTickets and know for a fact he is an owner of a Sport team, you dont post, "hey give me some free tickets to you team? on the main board.   So what is the point of a public discussion that provider 5678 is really pornstar 1234?  Common Sense.  
 

I respect the privacy of the UTRs I have seen or will see and I plan to keep it like that.

Some porn stars are under contract and CAN NOT provide as a condition of their contract.

So if someone feels the need to be a blabbermouth, the provider could lose her contract!

Im sure the blabbermouth wouldn't offer any financial support if his own actions caused that!

...since musical are by definition displayed on public avenue, whereas escorting is not. I do not see how this philosophy can improve the issues we are discussing. Protecting is crucial because this activity is illegal, and those among performers who decide to operates in the way they do should be allowed to do so. If you crack the dams the water will sweep away everything and everyone: your philosophy is like a musical where the performer are displaying their talent on the edge of the dams.

There is no reductio ad absurdum in my argument: I argues the the performers in question has to decide how, where and when present herself and which modality she find appropriate for her 'public exposure' and the TER should accomodate that request for reasons no other than those that the person should keep for herself, because this is unconditional right. TER 'follow' is policy, which in the case in question, are simply extending the rights of the performer to present herself in the public forum in the way she decided, and TER should 'protect' that rights.

A reductio ad absurdum is your argument that since some information is 'out there' then there should be NO policy to reduce the amount of information that will circulate, be discussed and eventually move somewhere else. This is logical fallacy because information can destroy career, reputation and so forth, and cause harms to those who get sweept away by it. As I said, the fact that some 'information' is out there has no relevance to what TER decide to do, and I suggested that this is not a necessary condition to allow everyone to discuss such matter, thus violating the rights of the performer in question to exactly avoid this to happen.

You still miss the point, so I have to reinforce it again: this is an illegal activity and information attached to such activity can be used for reason to which those who put the 'information out there' have no ideas about.

In regard to the use of reviews: I found this incredible, considering how long you have been around. Reviews do not prove anything, because are fictional narrative of fictional characters who describe their fantasies. Since those reviews are property of an entity is out of USA legislation what your arguing reveal just how 'information' that is out there can be misinterpreted and used to argue nonsensical stuff.

These fictional reviews and their fictional characters are a crucial piece of information that play an outstanding role in exactly protecting the 'privacy' of those involved in such finctional enterprises and the fact that you make an argument that suggest that they should be eliminated and the rest is all hypocritical simply display how distant you are from reality: not a case that you like a musical from 1776.

Since the issues of PS is a small portion of TER your argument about losing business is just not sustainable. PS reviews are less than 10% of all reviews being posted, and the PS Board is a very small portion of TER users. Again, you understanding suggest a mismatch of reality that is quite as old as your musical.

The policy is not wrong, because it serve the function of protecting those performers and those who see them. Protecting their privacy is what the policy and all this discussion is all about.

But again, you are still missing this crucial aspect of an enterprise that deal with privacy issue that cannot be addressed but only by the person who are involved in the difficult balance of being between the Scylla of running their business to reap its value and the Charybdis of protecting their privacy from abuse and harming.

TER is far from striking the right balance, but arguing that the dams can be cracked up is a device that leads to a monster which appeal is as low as a musical from 1776.

Sincerely,
BM

Thanks for making where you are coming from clear.

As for the rest of it, you might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

The real assholes are anyone who would out an UTR or criticize a moderator for not allowing it.  We are blessed by otherwise unavailable PSEs willing to see us if rules are followed.  Lets not step on that.

TER mods are all volunteers, and I read a thread like this and hope to God that boneboybob changes his mind and stays on...

I understand both points of view but it's hard to take a "legal" argument for our hobby. Rules are arbitrary, but I'm sure we all have our handles for a reason...so let's leave it at that and keep the discussion civil.

Cheers,
-F

I have befriended a few porn stars who at one time or another chose to go UTR.
one did so during contract negotiations another while in an "exclusive relationship" and another because she didn't want her boyfriend reading everything she was doing sometimes very graphic detail.
By going UTR as girls "a, b & c" instead of PS "A, B & C" their  rates were considerably lower. Those of us lucky enough to have stumbled across them or heard of them through back channels (IE: PMs on TER for one) got to see them at a considerable savings. None of them were hiding from bad reviews, some even had higher reviews as a UTR. Unfortunately for us one got outed and decided since she was outed, to go back to her PD name which commanded a much higher rate. So exposing UTR's is not in hobbyist's best interests but cultivating trusted fellow hobbyists and using the resources here to check info discreetly is.
If as you have stated TER's primary goal is business and making money outing UTRs is again not the way to go. We trust providers with our info and to use it in a non public way so why are you so against them being afforded the same respect. Without our trust they will not participate in review boards and we will have no use for TER's business.
I have been asked through PM's before if girl "a" was really PS "A" and depending on the level of trust I had for that TER user without letting him know if he was correct or not, I would offer to pass on his TER user name to the appropriate party. I have also seen users post about someones availability that had gone UTR and have PM'd trusted members with a hint they might want to try a "very similar provider" .
I am glad to know that such private sharing of "Not For Broadcast" intel would not be respected by you. You seem to feel that anyone that has ever been on TER has no say in what information is available about them. Most PS's real names are known and by using their PS name for an illegal activity invites attention that they may no longer deem worth the extra money the name brings.
I bet you wouldn't like you real name connected to your TER user name. SO how about it shall I tell everyone who you really are?
You are a person who hides behind the annimity of the internet and uses it to hurt others who have never harmed you, unlike boneybob who is looking out for providers and hobbyists alike thereby insuring TER has a product to sell.

================

I don't send or receive Private Messages anymore, because the PM's that I used to receive always felt like some sort of Law Enforcement/Law Entrapment sting (call me Paranoid).

But I wonder if the PM system works in regards to some of the issues being discussed here.  If the PM system works as it should, then the goal of "sharing information" could be achieved while still respecting the goal of "protecting privacy" to the extent of keeping the information off the public discussion portion of TER, away from the merely curious, the looky-lous, and the nya-nya people who are not seriously going to patronize providers, but only want the information to embarrass or humiliate or otherwise attack providers, hobbyists, or anyone else that can be attacked.

Putting the discussion into a "legal" context provides a constructive perspective, but it also reminds me of a very disturbing special that aired on the Discovery Channel several years ago.  After the verdict was issued in a murder trial, the jurors were interviewed.  The Defendant had been sentenced to life in prison.  One of the young ladies on the jury made the shocking (at least to me) comment that she voted in favor of the Defendant getting life in prison.  But the jury had not been told that the Defendant was a user of porn.  The juror said that if she had known that the Defendant was a porn user, she would have voted for the Death Penalty rather than life in prison.

So although the people that visit the TER boards, in general, take a more liberal view of issues like pornography and prostitution, there are some people who seem to look upon pornography and prostitution as more serious "transgressions" than murder.

Life in America is filled with many ironies.  But the same people who advocate First Amendment rights of free speech are often the same people who demand Confidentiality in the workplace for many, many things, especially information about salaries.

While open information sharing seems ideal, it also seems that the PM system could be a reasonable alternative whenever there is a concern about Confidentiality or Privacy.

Keep up the good work.  

You are, of course 100% correct.

If your philosophy is true, that they should get the "same level of privacy as they extend to us" then they should tell us their real names, and their real addresses and provide real work numbers and other verifiable information, just like they ask of us, when making a booking.

Your position is obviously flawed.

There seems to be a number of people in this thread who are missing the point entirely.

There is public information.

There is private information.

There is secret information.

Those are three different things.

What TER currently bans, in many cases, IS PUBLIC INFORMATION.  This is where TER is wrong: public information should be shared here and IS shared elsewhere other than on TER.  Examples of this include porn stars who claim to be UTR but have open, public ads, on websites like Eros, cityvibe, humaniplex, etc. and also includes stars who one agency lists as "UTR" on a password protected page but another has on their open public page.  Once the information is public, it's public.  If the porn star wants to get made at anyone, she should get mad at the agent who revealed the information to the world.

Private information includes things like a person's real name IF IT IS NOT PUBLICLY KNOWN.  For example, one person threatened in this thread to post my real name.  I don't know if he knows it or if he is just being rhetorical but that would be an example of private information that should NOT be shared.  But, if a porn star's real name is posted on a site like pornwikileaks, imdb.com, or some other web site and it's publicly available information, there is no reason why mentioning that information here, should be prohibited.  Nor should any aliases used by porn stars be prohibited, if those aliases are publicly known and published such as on iafd.com or imdb.com.  Then it is no longer *private* information.

Private information is rarely known to anyone but the person and his/her most intimate friends, relatives, or therapists.  If someone on the Internet knew it and had it on a web page, as unlikely as that is, then, yeah, that would be public information.  But that's not very likely.

As for UTR:  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  most of the so-called "UTR" ladies are not really UTR ladies.  If it's widely known that they provide, it's no longer truly UTR.   The true UTR ladies are the ones that only very few people know about it, and don't tell others about.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic.  My final words on the subject:
If TER wants to have policies that other sites don't, that's fine - they will lose the business as their customers find the other sites and move there.  There are plenty of sites out there that do not have the same policies, where information is more freely exchanged, and some of them are even free.

Furthermore, as in the example I gave, TER's policies are often either hypocritical, or contradictory.  Anyone who argues otherwise just doesn't get it.

This would be all well and good if you WERE just following the rules.  But whats going on here is a single, isolated case of one girl, who apparently gives you GREAT service.  And has "great reviews" but it is the very definition of hit or miss.  So apparently now all a girl has to do to keep her rip off reports off the board is ask nicely and give YOU 10/10 service.  Nevermind the fact she turns arounds and rips off the next client who paid the same fee.  Rushes him out after 5 minutes.  

Imagine if a provider shared your personal information with her agency.. that agency turned around and threatened you with it.. and when you try to come onto a board and share the events.. you get censored..Since when is breaking the first rule of escorting (DISCRETION) NOT A DISCUSSABLE TOPIC?  

That element is how this "community" is a bit like Junior High School.  

I get the sense many posters here want to let everyone know that they are in the "know."  Thus, they are "cool" as anyone in the "know" is "cool."

As it relates to this topic, I think many who are so eager to share information, whether they in fact consciously do it to be "cool" or just type without thinking, may reveal information they shouldn't.

I feel the rationale that since someone else may have revealed first, makes it OK to reveal the information again, a bit childish.  That rationale flipped on its head by a Provider who has contracted a STD and continues to work and possibly infect us hobbyists, would be justified since it wasn't her who first spread the disease!  A little fire from a tissue aflame, which will likely burn itself out, can become a wild fire once you add fuel to it.  But the rationale given, I wasn't the first to start the fire, is just assinine.

Listen, these are people's lives here.  Why take a chance of ruining someone's life just so that you can veal a tidbit.  What does it really get you?  Does it make you feel good about yourself?  Does it make you feel "cool" that you gave some poor schmuck information he never would have gotten otherwise?

Come on act your age, discretion is a valuable commodity here.  Try to understand why it is.

If the entire, "when two people know something its no longer a secret," concept is completely flawed. Let's say, a hobbyist writes reviews, or post pictures or blogs of his meetings with adult stars online, including photos of his face - perhaps shielded by sunglasses, perhaps only crotch shots of himself a performers... Now let's say that hobbyist meets other hobbyists at the AEE convention in vegas for drinks, they exchange legal names and phone numbers... should THAT information be posted on TER? After all, if the logic Mr. French posts is applied without the double standard, "if you want it to be a secret that you are a hobbyist, don't be a hobbyist!" Forget about whether said hobbyist has a wife or girlfriend or might not want the PTA members of his kids' grade school or the ex-wife he's battling over custody to know that he sees hookers in his spare time.. what's fair is fair and this site is for sharing information! After all, lots of escorts could benefit from know whether John Doe is an asshole and rips girls off or is Johnathon Doe is a good guy and brings gifts when he comes along or if Brian Doe like to fuck girls in the ass or is Matthew Doe tries to slip off the condom when the girl isn't looking... Oh wait, we already do that. Off line and away from the public eye.

Remember, your right to know is no different from the next person. And if you'd want your information shielded from public eye for whatever reason, consider that someone else might have an equally compelling reason.

This is the part that confuses me - if a porn star provider posts on a public board such as Eros or CV or whatever and uses an alias, that is certainly her right. However, there is an abundance of Bait & Switches who post porn stars' and Playmates' pics under fake names and turn out to be random girl. We eagerly out those girls as not being legit because it does a service to the TER community. So why then can a member who verifies that a porn star is working under a pseudonym and posting on a public ad site not be allowed to share that same information with the tight-knit community of posters we have here?

If we're concerned about public exposure, why not limit TER board viewers to Basic memberships and above, as opposed to being completely open to non-members to read all posts? My feeling is that if a legit PS wants to gain clients through public boards, she should post as herself. If she wants to be UTR, there are ways to be UTR. Obviously, I can't make them do that, but to ban the sharing of public information on the TER boards with other members seems contradictory to the purpose of TER.

Well said

Just use the alias, not the performing name.

As an aside, returning to TER when you are banned for threats and stalking just kind of makes your allegations of poor service somewhat suspect. I am allowing the post so you know that you aren't fooling anyone with your sock puppets.

The problem in your reasoning is that you are blind to the simple fact that certain information, no matter if public, private or secret, is attached to an illegal activity, which consequences might be the result of making this type of information available in one form or another. When this information is shared in public avenue, and no one has control on it, then the outcomes cannot be under the control of anyone. And if no one can control the outcome, no one is really safe.

It sound to me that you are so blind on this simple fact that you cannot see the absurdity of what your public sharing information system lead to: to the outing of people en mass.

I'm guessing, but its only a guess, that pornwikileaks has a job waiting for you.
Sincerely,
BM

That information is necessary to book an appointment for safety reasons but that information is not broadcast out to the public so it is your argument that is flawed. If it was published on the internet, I don't think anyone would be willing to provide it anymore. Same goes for providers that are UTR. If you out them, kiss them goodbye. Or wish you would have because you won't be able to anymore.

It surprises me that you would want UTR providers outed. Wasn't your personal information (real name, cell number & email address) available on PWL at one time along with some other not so flattering accusations about the integrity of your reviews?

No, actually, I'm not blind to that - I'm ignoring that issue because it's irrelevant to the discussion.  EVERYTHING discussed here about providers is illegal so there's no relevance to your argument.  If your reason were applied to the subject, then TER might as well close this board and all the others.

END OF MESSAGE

The internet is NOT a private place its a public place. If I can find information about a provider that is available on it by searching it on the web then its public information no matter how much you want it kept a secret. If I can deduce who a provider is by information she has posted in an ad and prove it, its public information.  

And as soon as information gained from a public source censoring it is pointless no matter how sensitive that information is to someone.

I agree about not outing someone who is UTR but your NOT UTR on the internet no matter how much you want it to be so.
Using an alias in an ad on the net does not mean you got the rest of the world to sign a NDA.
The responsibility to maintain your privacy lies on you so if you want to maintain your UTR status don't post any information anywhere on the web, use a private forum(and by forum I don't mean one like TER but a channel that is not public).

Therefor if someone ask if XX is providing and I point him to an ad where XX calls herself ZZ that is not outing, that merely relaying public information.  

Also about if XX uses an alias ZZ and is scamming people your not doing anyone any good pointing out that ZZ is a scam because then XX is going just changes her alias to YY and someone else is going to get scammed.

As Mr. French, you confuse the public use of information with the fact that this information is attached to a person who is trying to operate protecting her privacy for reasons that are none of other business. Since this information can lead to harming and other issues, by making this public information available is nothing but a form of outing. This violate the right of a person to choose her way to operate in public avenue.

All the time XXX call ZZZ and someone use 'public information' out there to say ZZZ is actually porn star Ms XXX = outing her. That people cannot understand this simple procedure it tell how unrespectful many hobbyst are of the privacy of porn star.

When you and Mr. French speak of public information available out there you never ask:
Is this information reliable? Is this information harmful? Is this information violating the right of a person to operate in this business under the forms and indentities she has choosen for herself?
Is this information going to create issue in her career? Is this information going to invade her privacy, since it became clear that XXX and ZZZ are the same person?

You, like Mr. French, sing the virtue of the public information without any respect for the reason that information should be disentangled for a specific person, which indeed has very reasonable reason to call ZZZ instead of XXX.

Each time someone ask if XXX is providing and you point him to an ad where XXX calls herself ZZZ this is outing her. Furthermore, by pointing out where the information is, you are done a terrible mistake, because that information can come from public avenue, where that information has been stolen and put publicly to exactly outing performers, thus encouranging directly the procedure of people who have nothing else to do but call porn star, whore and prostitute. Since that information will be linked to a recognizable porn star, the outcome of your making information publicly is nothing less but destroying any chance for a performer to protect her privacy. Since that public information is directly linked to illegal activity, nothing but real issue can come as result of making public information available about XXX who call herself ZZZ...

Why in the hell hobbyst cannot understand this is beyond my comphrension. For sure, I cannot but be symphatetic with all pornstar who operate the way they do: if hobbyst demonstrate such misunderstanding of the issue at stake, well, no wonder they are not going to be available. It is a tragedy that the people that should protect them are the first who will out them.

Sincerely,
BM

Providers ask for personal information for 1 reason and 1 reason only - to insure that you are who you say you are - and that you are not LE. You already KNOW that the PORN STAR that you have watched on videos isn't LE and is in fact... A PORN STAR. When you call up an agency or an independent... How do we know that you are really John Doe, Accountant without verifying that? Otherwise, we might as well all be street walkers taking whatever John Doe came across our paths... and you, well, you might as well risk going to jail by seeing unknown ladies that might be LE and not really providers.

His position is not flawed and I believe you are reaching for straws...

If you booked a non-porn star provider ad that had her face blurred or hidden in her ads - for whatever reason, and she allowed you to take personal photo souvenirs as a part of your session... would you post them online out of commitment to TER or any other online community?

So "why then can a member who verifies that a porn star is working under a pseudonym and posting on a public ad site not be allowed to share that same information with the tight-knit community of posters we have here?"

Very simple: TER member who know about a specific porn star who is using an alias should respect her will, first of all. Since she must have serious reasons to present herself in certain modalities publicly, this rights should be respected, and this the second. Thirdly, and finally, if you do not respect her will and violate her rights you are outing her in one form or another.

TER member have the PM system to discuss all the UTR-related matters, and backchannelling to inform other members of their relationships if a porn star allow you to do that.

If TER member do not respect the will and rights of a porn star they will do a terrible service to the TER community.

Sincerely,
BM

Im going to try to explain this again but first I want it to be clear I am not doing this because I want to be able to out people here on TER but explain what happens to information once it reaches the web and why boneboybob feels so frustrated that he needed to start this thread.

All the information on the internet must be considered public, because once it is on the net you can no longer control it and without control over the information it cannot be private again, no matter what you defined the information as when you brought it online. The ONLY control you have is whether to post it online or not, after that whatever happens to this information is out of your hands. This is an very important point and it is not I who claim this to be fact but every media expert and book written on the subject will confirm this. So you have to work with this fact in mind, always.

Whatever control you had over the information is gone and whatever intention you had with it becomes irrelavant once it on the net. Again not a suggestion just a fact.

Picture the the internet as a room full of milllions upon millions of people., the function of this room its to share and talk about information. This function is not going to change no matter what. If you walk into this room an introduce yourself as XXX, the model. People in the room is going to hear you say it and that information is going to spread further when they talk to eachother. Then you go over and whisper to a couple of persons, Im ZZZ the escort, sadly for you eventhough you tried to be discreet alot of people heard it and the process of spreding this information starts. Sooner or later both these pieces of information will lead to the conclusion: XXX the model, escorts as ZZZ.
That information is now going to start to spread and there is nothing you can do about this.
The second you whispered im ZZZ the escort in this room it will sooner or later be connected to XXX. In effect saying Im ZZZ the escort in this room is outing yourself, it irrelevant who connects ZZZ to XXX it not going to change that it will happen, the only piece of control you have is not to say ZZZ in this room.
So if you want to maintain your privacy don't say it, and if you say it be damn sure that you can live with it becuase if you say ZZZ it will catch up with you. All the questions you wanted me an mrfrench to ask ourselfs about what consequences spreading this information would have is questions you have to consider before saying ZZZ because that is the time your still in control. If you didnt bother considering them yourself you cannot ask anyone else to do so.

And here is where TER is in all this, in this room there is a group of people with similar interest they talk about, they are called TER, they have a rule when they talk, that isn't compatable with the function of the room. There is going to be friction and there is going to be a unlucky boneboybob who is going to get very frustrated by all this friction because it he who will have to deal with it. He can be an asshole or a teddybear, this friction is not going to go away. The fact that people know, XXX the model, escorts as ZZZ is not going to stop spreading or go away becuase of this rule. So what atleast I am trying to say and I think it is what mrfrench is saying also, if this rule doesn't do what it is intended to do and merely have negative effects on this board, what is the point in having it?

Sincerely Mooki80

Thanks Mr. French - Dead on the money correct! It can't be stated any better then that!

Sticking your head in the sand wont change anything, you screaming "don't out people" wont change it from happening, what we can do is save boneboybob from this futile task.