"War on Poverty" sabotaged? By the rich? When Reagan became president the top tax rate was 90% for crying out loud! That was 16 years after LBJ's attempt at socialism and wealth distribution had done nothing but failed, the exception being the increase the size of the bueaucracy.
The most conservative figures available show the costs to supply Social Security and Medicare benefits through the life expectecy of the Boomer Generation is 40 Trillion dollars, (40,000,000,000,000.00)! Considering our Gross National Product for the same time period I consider it a future failure!
This is based on actuary tables which are constantly being refigured UP, due to advances in medicine and the longivity of the WWII generation and what is expected from the Boomer generation. Since our elected officials will not have the balls to make meaningful changes, what is expected is the age of eligability will most likely increase to block most from receiving any benefits until the age of 77 - 79.
Have you not noticed how both parties have not been discussing Social Security in any meaningful way? They know the numbers and they also know that discussing it in an open and honest way will piss people off.
Your contention that the federal governments involvement in medicine has nothing to do with rising costs puzzles me. I don't think that the government does anything especially frugally, the waste is everywhere. I would also agree that the advancements in medicine and pharmaceuticals have added to increased costs, however, when Medicare sets the fees they will pay for services, in many cases below costs, the public sector is picking up the difference, after already paying for Medicare in the first place.
Although this is anedotal, I live in Orange County, CA and in the past 5 years we have seen several (6) private hospitals closed for economic reasons. These hospitals were mainly serving Medicare and Medi-Cal patients. They simply could not continue to operate with a low market share of private insurance patients. I believe that this trend will continue and increase, increasing the cost of medicine exponentially while diminishing its quality at the same time.
BTW, I have not read Ayn Rand. I take it though you reject her writings and in that, you have piqued my interest.
.. I was struck by, and commented on the posts about failures and successes earlier. In all fairness, it is important to note that the liberal successes often occur because liberals see goveernment as providing a capacity to develop public goods (roads, fda, space program, ...). Their record of being able to do this over the years has been good and deserves praise.
Conservatives, ohn the other hand, recognize that governments can fail (and badly) in developing programs {The great society, war on poverty, ...). They also know that the taxes necessary to pay for these programs funnel money out of the private sector and reduce innovation. My read of conservative successes are things they have eliminated or reduced and lowered tax rates. For my liberal friends on this board (and fellow Kerry Voters), remember that President Kennedy proposed and passed a tax cut during the early part of his administration to revitalize the economy.
I for one, hope the government gets more divided after the next election cycle and that we regenerate a more healthy debate between both these camps.
-- Modified on 5/17/2004 10:53:13 AM
I'm sorry, Harry, that Kennedy tax cut was the beginning of the unravelling of this nation. It's not that taxes weren't too high, a contention in which I would agree, it's that the entire purpose of the progressive income tax had not been for revenue. It was to keep the rich from getting richer and keep the poor from getting poorer. It was one way the United States kept Marxism from gaining a foothold, and it kept the country relatively stable while Europe was hit by convulsions.
Let me tell you what happened when Kennedy cut taxes, and this has not been noted anywhere else. After the cuts, money began to flow into candidates campaigns and lobbying took off like never before. Why? Because as more wealth was allowed, the rich began to fix the laws and bias the government so they could grow richer. Then Reagan cut taxes, especially for the rich. Suddenly donations and lobbying went into hyperdrive. Now Bush has cut taxes, unequally biased to the rich. And guess what? He's probably the most successful fundraiser ever. Attempts at campaign finance reform are doomed, because they attack free speech and ignore the root of the problem, which resulted from either cutting or sabotaging what was originally a device to prevent class stratification. Now the tax system is actually regressive.
More about this later...
/Zin
The idea of a progressive tax came into being before the world was affected much by Marxism: it's a very old idea. While some of the political advantages to progressive taxes are as you describe, there is a solid economic basis for the idea (See the papers by James Ramsey from the 1920s -- BTW, one of the most brilliant men who ever lived).
I'm sure you know American history well enough to know that paying off politicians was occuring long before tax cuts. I would say that lobbying in DC is the consequence of the growth in the size of businesses in the US -- it made economic sense to develop a K street.
Good points. But none of them are in any way contradictory or excluding of the arguments I made. A progressive tax system can predate Marxism, and yet still be used to undercut its appeal.
As for citing "the growth in the size of business," this describes accurately a symptom rather than a cause. Business size grew because the rich were once again allowed to grow richer. The fact supports my point, and doesn't contradict it.
As for the "paying off" of politicians, it's different now in that it is an industry in itself, and largely an open and tolerated one, getting teams of politicians to remake massive amounts of rules.
/Zin
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