I admit, I have unabashedly ridiculed George Bush. I have made fun of his broken promises, and now that he has proven me wrong on a very important one, I want to take this opportunity to give him credit where it is due.
In the 2000 presidential election, he repeatedly stated that he was 'a uniter, not a divider'. I simply didn't give him enough time to prove it, but he has, in spades.
His policies have done the impossible - the Shiites and Sunnis have been at each other's throats for centuries, but he has managed to unite them. Against us.

Well done, George.

the joy it has brought you!

Excuse me Puck,

but I recall someone saying that we had won the war in Iraq a year ago and that it was over. Just recently I recall someone else stating that the war in Iraq was a success.

Now the Shiites who were actually helping US about a year ago, have turned against US.

What can we do to get the best result possible for everyone in Iraq with minimal casualties?

or, in the words of, an old Arabic saying "Me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the world."

GW has managed to unite the Sunni's and Shia's, in much the same way that they came together to overthrow the remnants of the old Ottoman Empire in WWI, and subsequently the Brits.

And to address PDP's question, sometimes there are problems so difficult that there aren't any solutions. The present situation in Iraq, which is now boiling over into civil war, may just be one of those. T.E. Lawrence, the famed "Lawrence of Arabia", wrote a treatise called the "Seven Pillars of Wisdom". In it, he outlined how the Arabs historically had dealt with would-be conquerors, and how they (and he) had used those tactics to defeat the Turks in WWI. The very same tactics and forces are in play today, and they don't favor the establishment of a 'western-style' democracy in Iraq. If anything, it looks like we are trying to install a Vichy-type government in Iraq, albeit one that lacks even a 'Marshal Petain'-like figurehead.

-- Modified on 4/6/2004 6:35:21 PM

Sadly, I don't see much hope for a good outcome. Most likely is a withdrawal ala Mogadishu - leave the country to it's own turmoil. Without any one strong presence it will become the haven for terrorists the Bush administration said it was before invading. In fact, a year or two later most of the lies Bush told may well come true, and the UN will invade along with us.
I fear 'peace with honor' is impossible now, short of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al stepping down and apologizing for misleading the world.

I don't care anymore about Democrat vs. Republican, liberal vs. conservative.  We are one country, one people, one interest.

I can't help but feel a sense of dread at the spectre of another Vietnam.  I am past military draft age, I think.  I will be 30 in December.  But my two younger brothers (27 and 16) may be eligible for a draft should there be one if this Iraq fiasco turns out to be a Pandora's Box where we will actually be at war against the people of Iraq just to stablize the region.  Do you seriously think that we would let Israel exist alone in a region that has a wild, terrorist-ridden, radicalist Islamic nation of Iraq?  

It seemed far-fetched a month ago, but the possibility of a real war in the Middle East with the backing of the U.N. (as Puck stated) may be a necessary requirement for global peace in the near future, perhaps requiring a military draft because of the scale that it may involve.

Let's keep in mind as we are going through this budding quagmire -- we as Americans have a democrativ voice and a vote.  Please use it wisely.


Rico

I take no joy in the notion that my brothers and sisters are re-living 1968's Tet offensive - the policies of this administration, the web of lies and deceit spun by this liesure service of Halliburton et al and their pigheaded single-minded warmongering will result in the deaths and dismemberment of untold American and Iraqi soldiers and civilians.
Unlike others who opine on this board I believe in promoting understanding and peace - the Iraqis are not simply a pile of ignorant peasants pining for a benevolent dictatorship - they are a proud and struggling people who deserve the right to guide themselves. We trumpet our desire to give them democracy - it seems to me we've done the job really well, and the people are speaking out in the same language we used.
Put your hatred and fear of the left aside and join the effort to effect meaningful regime change - because if Bush is allowed to continue with Cheney et al pulling his puppet strings the world will be well and truly fucked.

I am glad to realize that, as you have ignored the substance of the post, it implies tacit agreement. There is hope for you yet.

-- Modified on 4/7/2004 8:54:54 AM

Two militant, terrorist, "ignorant peasants", Mullahs leading a mob of Islamic "ignorant peasants" extremist do not come close to representing even a slight minority of the Iraqi people.  Poll after poll shows the majority support American intervention to oust Saddam.

It seems to me that ridding Iraq of these pukes would make an enormous difference, that and somebody shutting Ted Kennedy up!  His drunken diatribes are broadcasted nightly on Arab TV.

As far as the TET offensive, hardly!  However, we won that too.  Again, a knee jerk reaction from the left.  And without the intervention of anti-American pukes like Kerry, the military would have and should have beat the crap out of North Viet Nam, saving millions of innocent Southeast Asians from horrendous death at the hands of communists!  The major problem in Iraq is the reemergence of those same anti-American pukes, like Kennedy who are aiding and abetting the enemy!

Those few who are resisting in Iraq are attempting to break our resolve, you have chosen to help them, fortunately you will not succeed as you did during the Clinton Administration.  For example Somalia.  The resistance has surely been emboldened by past retreats and the vitriol coming from the leftist in the Senate.  We will defeat them and return Iraq over to self governance, not some raghead pseudo religious puke like the two leading the resistance now.  A good SEAL team could take them both out from a mile away, I hope they do, today!

BTW, I think your chip shots at Bush are working against you guys, most American's won't run from a righteous fight, we dig in.  Your kind of pacifism is what has brought us to this place in time, had Clinton taken ANY meaningful action against al Qaeda or Saddam, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place!

Now that Spain has attempted to appease these scumbags they must be wondering WTF are they still attempting to bomb our trains!  The answer is clear, it is their nature to destroy and kill innocent people and their religion seems to endorse it.  Isn't it interesting that we don't hear any Islamic leaders condemning terrorism?  And we never will!

The only thing we will probably ever agree on is that there is no such thing as a bad blowjob!

But we are also not confused as to who is responsible for their meaningless loss:  The person who ordered them into harm's way on false pretenses, when there was never a threat to OUR national security by Saddam.  At least if Bush is thrown out of office because of the tragic toll of his Iraq misadventure, and we learn the lesson of the cost of this type of arrogance on the international stage, and change our behavior as a result of it, then these brave people will not have all died in vain, and some solace will be able to come of it.

Woah!  Time to read a book or two.  

There is little to be impressed about by the Arabs as a whole.  Individually- some of the finest people on the planet with some great accomplishments.

But not very impressive in whole.  

TE lawrence did most of the strategizing for them in WWI, in WWII many of them backed Hitler.

Brits often left in the post colonial period gladly- blunted many uprisings.  The work in Paklestine was done by the Jews- Arabs were preferred by the brits.

What odes seem to work to govern them is unbridled ferocity.  Turks used heavy hand as did Persians, Greeks, Seljuk Turks and all the other rulers.  Torch Faluja and you might get somewhere, repugnant as that may be.

Juist not our style

More importantly, after we introduce Democracy to them we introduce deodorant - Replace their places of worship with Right Guard factories.  That will put them in line.

Once we get it right with them we can bring it to Iraq.

at least the hats look French to me - who else would come up with that shit.

I've got an idea.  We send Britney to Iraq, they will then surely surrender - Hell, I'm ready to surrender.

The worst part is how Britney has infected the Asian population.  Where I live there are many Chinese and 80% wear those damn hats 99% of the time - I call them Chitney Spears.



-- Modified on 4/7/2004 2:25:54 PM

The fact is, MOST of these Iraqis hate us (even the ones who also hated Saddam), and they will be trying to kill us as long as we try to impose our will on their own national sovereignty.
 
Oh, and I am pleased to hear that you now endorse the Blow Job Clinton got from Monica in the White House, as I quote: "There is no such thing as a bad blowjob"/

you can be reasonable and then this !!!! I'm not an MD nor do I play one on TV, but I do believe this stress is going to kill you.  It sure doesn't seem like all your venting is doing any good.  See some providers and don't be such a stingy Republican (what a surprise) and let us know how it goes.

bam !!! back to your schizophrenic ways.  I don't mean to harp but it's a bit disturbing.

"Poll after poll shows the majority support American intervention to oust Saddam." Oh my! where did they do the polling in Iraq? Unlike here, you pick up the phone and ask people. In iraq, at that time-just after American tanks blitz in to the city, when an American guy escorted by ten fully armed American soilders stopping people and qustioning them, belive me, they will say what you want to hear. That is NOT polling.

Wake up and watch the news.

Do you see any support now?

Do you disagree that the majority of Iraqi's supported the removal of Saddam?

Do you disagree that the uprising is being led by two Mullahs?  Are you aware of how many Mullah's there are in Iraq?  Are you aware that the Shia Mullah murdered another Mullah just a couple of weeks ago?  Do you think he has widespread support from all Shiites?

Do you think that Ted Kennedy is helping the US in his vitriolic remarks?  Do you think Ted Kennedy is ever sober?  Do you deny that Ted Kennedy's speeches are shown on Al Jazeera?  (Kennedy was yesterday, here's today's:  http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4757321E-F638-4926-B3CC-2EADA3FA8C76.htm)

Did you think that the TET offensive was a military success for North Viet Nam?  US, Australia and Korea lost 1,536 soldiers and North Viet Nam lost 45,000 soldiers.  The success came when lefties like you and Kerry helped to turn public opinion against the war, unfortunately, successfully.  NVN ass was kicked during TET.  Fact!

I will accept that you would not want to destroy the Mullah's who are making the trouble in Iraq utilizing SEAL teams of sharpshooters, of course you would want to talk to them, understand them, have them run a sword through your throat, beat your dead body, burn it and then hang it from a bridge.

Do you deny that U.S. Policy has been to withdraw when faced with resistance under Carter and especially Clinton?  If so based on what?

Do you believe that Clinton made any meaningful attempts to stop terrorism or Saddam?  If so, based on what?

Do you deny that the election in Spain was a reaction to the terrorist bombing in Madrid?  Do you deny that recent bombs have been found on the railways in Spain?  Did you think that the terrorist would stop with the new Socialist government?  Do you think they still will?

Have you heard, read or seen any major Islamic leaders condemn terrorism?  If so, who, where and when?  Have you ever wondered that since Palestine has a 20% Arab Christian population why there is never any Christian Suicide Bombers?  Are the Christian Palestinians less occupied?  Do you think that Islam is a peaceful religion?  

Do you ever think?  When you do attempt to think, is it only to endeavor to be cute, striving to invent glib responses?  Did you know that J.R.R. Tolkien was a profound Christian and close personal friend of C.S. Lewis?  If you had known that, would you have seen the movie?

Do you think there is such a thing as a bad blowjob?

My whole point is that you come across as extremely confrontational.  I do not question your intelligence, however I find a very hateful tone in your posts which overshadows anything true/reasonable they may contain.  To be so against a people that you would have them (my impression) extinct makes you no better (to me) than your view of them.

I do believe that the US has a right to exact vengeance on those responsible.  However, I would not condemn all of Islam to death.

Regarding your implication that I have something against Christians this is not true.  The majority of my family (including my wife) are Catholic.  However, they do not go around telling others how to live which is the agenda of the religious right.  As long as someone is a good person and respects others then I don't care what their religion is.

Take care.

Where did you come up with the opinion that I would condemn all Islam to death?  To me your interpretation of my posts are knee jerk and baseless.  

This war from beginning to this second has been the model for surgical warfare.  Even now with Marines surrounding Fallujah with the ability to reduce the town to rubble, they are hunting down the culprits, sifting through the innocents and attempting to enforce a lawful arrest warrant for Muqtada al-Sadr for the murder of a fellow "Islamic" cleric.  If our military utilized a modicum of their resources without restraint, Iraq would be toast and you know it.  The cause is noble.

What I have said is that we should respond with force to these "pukes", not a wholesale slaughter of the city.

I do apologize that my posts seem to offend your sense of civility, I do wonder if you feel the same way about ststud or Pucks diatribes or is it that you tend to agree with them and just dislike my point of view.

Your denial of bigotry against Islam reeks of hypocrisy, given the content of so many of your prior posts.  My posts have ALWAYS been about the specific actions of individuals.  Whatever you may think of my particular views, I have never condemned an entire people, or religion, or nationality, or sexual preference, or political stripe, with the brush of bigotry.   You certainly HAVE done this with Moslems, and prior to that, with gays, and certainly with Liberals and Democrats.  

I judge individual people by their particular actions.  My distaste for the Bush Administration has nothing to do with the fact that they are Conservative Republicans, but rather, the specific craven actions and lack of integrity shown by individuals in carrying out their jobs, and they are corrupt, and contemptuous of the Brave American lives that they are squandering in Iraq for their own interests.  And they have no respect for the truth, when it stands in the way of their agenda.  There are a great many Conservative Republicans whom I admire, and would be proud to have as my leader, who are men of integrity and character (unlike George W. Bush).  Off the top of my head, I'd name John McCain, Richard Lugar, Chuck Hegel, John Warner, and Thomas Keane, as well as Bob Dole and Gerald Ford in the senior set, among others.  These are TRUE conservatives, who respect the values of the Constitution, and who understand the ramifications of playing fast and loose with the truth, and would never take the nation to war simply over political gain.

"There are a great many Conservative Republicans whom I admire, and would be proud to have as my leader, who are men of integrity and character (unlike George W. Bush).  Off the top of my head, I'd name John McCain, Richard Lugar, Chuck Hegel, John Warner, and Thomas Keane, as well as Bob Dole and Gerald Ford...."

I'm always impressed when Lefties tell us what kind of Republicans they like.  Do they really believe us as stupid as themselves, and that we'll take their advice?  THEY DON'T LIKE Conservatives!  They wish us ill!

Aside from the fact that this list is a piss-poor example of "conservatives."  And a singularly undistinguished crowd, to boot.  sdstud couldn't even get Thomas Kean's name spelled right.  And name one significant legislative accomplishment of any of them, especially Virginia's own Senator Foghorn Leghorn, John Warner.  'Fact is, had Dick Obenshain not been killed in a plane crash in '78, when he beat Warner for the GOP nomination, Warner would have retired to the farm to keep Liz on the treadmill.

only History will tell whether this cause (war) is noble.  I hardly think so.  Is it still called ``Operation Iraqi Freedom''.  Please.  

If this war was so surgical and the main goal was to exact justice on Bin Laden, then why is it that SH is the captured one ?  Sure he's a bad guy, but isn't this surgical strike a war on Bin Laden.  If Bush didn't have such a hard on for SH is it possible that Bin Laden would be captured ?

In any event, it doesn't matter what you or I say is the truth.  Only History will tell, God willing (see, I have a sense of a higher power - Nature to me).  What matters is that we seek the truth.

And no I don't particularly like your point of view but when expressed without sicking the dogs of war from your living room I can respect it.

Take care,
L

No, we wish you enlightenment.