It's very un-American of you to curse liberals with your negative ju-ju just so conservatives can maintain control long enough to make America into a failed state. You're getting in the way of all true Americans.
(parody)
/Zin
-- Modified on 8/4/2004 9:42:45 PM
... I REALLY dont want to vote for Bush and I'm looking for every possible to reason to pull the lever for Kerry. He SAYS the right sound bites and he's got me on the hook. He SOUNDS strong on terrorism, he SOUNDS tough. But then I see him quoted saying things like this and I have to wonder if his real mindset is for all of us to stick our heads in the sand with terrorism. Here's the quote from today's Journal, speaking about Bush:
"The policies of this administration have resulted in an increase in the animosity and anger focused on the United States (in the Arab world). The people who are training terrorists are using our actions as a means of recruitment."
This is so naieve I'm dumbfounded. What's he saying here? If we took less actions/different actions/no action then terrorists won't be able to recruit new terrorists? That they'll stop recruitment efforts? Say WHAT? That's implausible. What else could he mean? We should all reach out and make a terrorist a friend, and all problems are solved. Madonna says stuff that makes more sense than this. BUT EVEN THEN...I DON'T WANT TO VOTE FOR BUSH... so could someone cite for me what Kerry's policies would be that will keep yours and mine safe and make Arab fundamentalists love us?
and try to understand the mind of a terrorist. I think that only yields a little useful information. The bottom line is that they hate Israel and the United States and will continue to do so, largely independent of our policies. They already want us infidels dead and the Great Satan humbled; will that change anytime soon?
BTW, they hated us and attacked us under Clinton. They will continue to do so if Kerry is elected. Kerry's quote just represents a candidate bashing the opposing candidate.
If you don't believe this to be true, then YOU are the one who is naive. What we did in Iraq PROVED to many poor folks in the Middle East that what Osama Bin Laden had been saying had some validity for them.
Of course, Al Qaida can and did recruit before we invaded Iraq. But after we invade Iraq, the number of folks in the Arab world who were volunteering increased dramatically. Bush made it EASIER for them to get critical masses of people willing to commit suicide for the cause of harming us infidels.
That's what Kerry was saying. And the rest of what he was saying is that the only way to fight the battle for hearts and minds is by, first off, respecting the different values that moslems may have, and using education, and good will, to educate those folks about our values. This is a very long, drawn out process. And it's not won by talking cowboy tough, to people who expect that their great fulfilment will only come after they die. That just makes them firmer in their resolve.
Nobody, certainly not Kerry, ever said this was an easy battle. But what Bush has done, in talking and acting macho to firm up his own base in the U.S., has certainly done more to inflame the passions of the folks in the Arabian peninsula than it has done to persuade them that we are on the side of right.
-- Modified on 8/3/2004 6:13:18 PM
but he voted against Homeland Security several times? Has railed against the Patriot Act, but it is supported on his party's political platform? How many times have you heard that he voted for the Patriot Act not realizing its impact, but now, its prominent in his party's platform, what the fuck is that about?
Or he lambastes Bush for Intelligence issues, but as a member of the Senate Intelligence Sub-Committee for 8 years he only attended 22% of their meetings/hearings? That was at a time when he could have had an impact, but was too fucking busy to attend, but not too busy to show up for votes to cut their funding!
The real question is, who is Kerry? I would contend that he is the liberal leftist that his voting record reveals. He is anti-military as his 18 year Senate career proves (not to mention his slander of Vietnam Veterans) whom he now claims to embrace. He has voted 100% against intelligence funding in his 18 year Senate career, doing it would seem everything in his power to weaken America.
But now he wants to reinvent himself as a strong military leader, shocked at the condition of our intelligence community and holds all the answers. What utter non-sense. He has supported and voted for EVERY tax increase in his governmental career, has voted AGAINST every tax decrease in his governmental career.
His record and life belie what he is representing himself as now, he is a shell of a man without character, integrity or even a modicum of honor! A man empty of a single core value, but always with a wet finger in the air!
He is a member of the "I've got mine (married it), and I think you don't pay enough taxes, go eat cake" club... maybe the president of it.
But, to answer your question, Kerry wants to suck Chirac's dick and turn our security over to the UN.
That the high-handed and unilateral actions we are taking and the arbitrary way we approach all arab, arab-americans, muslims, and anyone else we think might harbour political ideas that we do not advocate, is getting us seen as boors in the world. If we were to relax, be more approachable, focus on the real sources of animosity, and work with our friends and non-aligned countries to stop terrorism, we might actually succeed.
NOT that we should disengage and let the actualy violent adversaries attack us with impunity.
Getting the bad guys is easier in packs than alone. In high noon, didn't the Sherriff want the townspeople's help? He knew he COULD fight them alone, but that it would be better and safer with them. Bush just headed straight for the train station. Now we are all paying the price- at the pump and with our boys in harm's way.
I agree that better and safer is more desirable than worst and more dangerous. What I haven't been able to divine is HOW these allies can help us, in Iraq. (And please note Kerry is NOT stupid enough to say he'll disengage and let our enememies attack with impunity. But... by taking the wrong approach (and his statement sure sound like the wrong approach) he can accomplish that end. In today's world, it's possible to disengage without really saying you're disengaging. That what worries me. As to your point about combating radical Islam with social workers, that's a whole 'nother post.
Well for one thing we need INFANTRY. Our army is weak in Infantry. Not that what we have is weak, but we don't have tons of battalions of it. Most of our has huge numbers of vehicles or helos. We need lots of boots in Iraq to guard stuff, so our highly trained guys can go over to the offensive against the INSURGENTS.
We also need some other to PAY for stuff. So our taxpayers are not the only ones.
We could use more military engineers, police and admin personnel. some other armies in Europe and other areas are not so good at war-fighting, but excel at thhis kind of stuff.
Where was the social worker quote? Not what I said at all.
Right now- there are few people in the Middle East who would go out of their way to stop or prevent or warn us about an attack from the Terrs. We are not sympathetic to those who are anti- Terr and we are a laudable target to those who are pro-Terr. We DO need to find a group to communicate with and work with in the area. There is too much business to do there and they have the source of our power-literally.
Right now- NO movement is possible- unless we can get an unconditional win- a near impossiblity, given the politics and the sheer numbers. With a dialogue aimed at finding some sypmathetic voices in the Near East, we might get things to the point where we can get a little cooperation. That can be a wedge we exploit further until we are partnering with these counties for all of our goods. Wanting to talk is not necessarily weak.
If you think the present admin is doing a great job and cannot be toppped, go ahead and go with them. But a cursory glance through history will let you know that this is closer to a nadir of US policy than a zenith.
I learned a few things I didn't know. The points you made about logistical military help is valid. However, I don't believe the voters of Europe nor their leaders will sacrifice their own blood and treasure. I also agree that U.S. taxpayers shouldn't foot the whole bill. But I think it's a pipe dream to get Europeans to ante up to keep New York skyscapers safe. Besides, those people are already taxed to death, don't you know? And all the tax revenues are ear marked for social programs. The fact is, Europe can't AFFORD to help pay for this. They really can't. Hey, what can you expect? The U.S. paid for WWI, WWII, the COld War. Why should this be any different? Sometimes Europe comes across to me like the neighbor who keeps mooching your tools, your sugar and such and you never get anything back.
As for Mr. Bush: I think he's gotten a few big things right. A few things have been downright stupid. A lot, actually. I wish FDR were running this year. But he's not. The choice is really between the dumb and dumber. And that's too bad.
I mean, Sully and me taking shots at each other is fun and all but where's the group fracas I was expecting?
That certainly has an inhibiting factor on the back and forth you are referring to. For example, I've replied to MANY of your posts today. And you won't see them until this evening, when our moderator posts my replies. And then, if you respond, it won't be before tomorrow evening that my next wave of replies will appear.
I dispute that we pay for everything, but even if we did -we need people to trade with! Europe is good for that.
Besides being the font of our culture and all. Europe HAS BEEN FIGHTING TERRORISM FOR 40 YEARS! Paying for that fight on their own!
Until we see all those cops who supported the IRA out of southie and SF, and Chicago, and Brooklyn/the Bronx rounded up and charged with their crimes- THE US IS A PIKER IN THE REAL WAR ON TERROR!
I think you need to get over your US as victim mindset- its wrong and most unbecoming. Part of the sore winner mindset.
And the choice is one between a Down's syndrome- think alike and a reglar guy (I know he's rich, but he's of regular intelligence from what I can see- not too brilliant like Carter- not a slug like Bush)
I dispute that we pay for everything, but even if we did -we need people to trade with! Europe is good for that. ((No, it's not. American goods are taxed punitatively to be prohibitively expensive compared to EU goods. Besides, I think the safety of Americans here at home is worth more than selling some Velveta to Europe)))
Besides being the font of our culture and all. Europe HAS BEEN FIGHTING TERRORISM FOR 40 YEARS! Paying for that fight on their own! ((What the heck are you talking about? 40 years? You mean the IRA stuff? That's a nationalist struggle that has nothing to do with the terrorism we face now. It's not like the Islamists want to reclaim their soverenty over the U.S.))
Until we see all those cops who supported the IRA out of southie and SF, and Chicago, and Brooklyn/the Bronx rounded up and charged with their crimes- THE US IS A PIKER IN THE REAL WAR ON TERROR! ((I really don't follow you at all here and I'm pretty good at following disjointed political thinking -- I was able to understand Kerry's speech last week).
I think you need to get over your US as victim mindset- its wrong and most unbecoming. Part of the sore winner mindset. ((See? That's the salon-Euro-intellectual mindset I railed about earlier. What I hear you saying is: Well, Europeans are used to getting blown to bits all the time we shouldn't complain; stop whining. What I'm saying is I expect life to be better in the U.S. than in (horrors) the People's Republic of Germany. I expect more from my country. Being just as good or bad as Europe doesn't wash.)))
And the choice is one between a Down's syndrome- think alike and a reglar guy (I know he's rich, but he's of regular intelligence from what I can see- not too brilliant like Carter- not a slug like Bush). ((( Well, this is an insult to all people with Down's Syndrome and slugs, some of whom post misinformed political opinions on this board, I see. This was fun. Hope I get a chance to come back here soon.
John Rambo-120-day-warrior-wonder Kerry voted against the first Gulf war because his daughter talked him out of Voting for it.
He wants to give U.S. sovereignty to the UN Tin Pot Thugs and criminals. Maybe we should just mainline the U.S. dues directly to the Swiss Bank Accounts. UN has no control over the massive corruption within the UN. We should boot them out of the U.S.
John Kerry may have been Rambo in Vietnam but so what. He voted against Ron Reagan and opposed his plans that won the cold war. He said that Reagan was dangerous and was angering the Soviet Union. (Gee, sound familiar)
John kerry's solution for every problem is TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX AND MORE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS MORE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS MORE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.
JOHN F. KERRY IS A REAL SHIT FOR BRAINS. SHIT FOR BRAINS. SHIT FOR BRAINS.
The strange thing is, Rambo wasn't even a Rambo in Vietnam.
/Zin
Europe needs us just as much and more than we need them, it would be refreshing if they acted like it!
Europe has never fought terrorism (Britian not included), they have just suffered from it!
I agree about those who supported the IRA (this from an American of Irish/Catholic decent).
US as victim mindset? 9/11
One with intelligence would want to know what Hanoi John stands for, wouldn't he?
I would suggest that you lose your Blame America First mindset, it kills!
It's very un-American of you to curse liberals with your negative ju-ju just so conservatives can maintain control long enough to make America into a failed state. You're getting in the way of all true Americans.
(parody)
/Zin
-- Modified on 8/4/2004 9:42:45 PM
Absent of any real thought, but you did spell everything properly.
what would be left , exactly?
Or, not doing the second, at least divide. Not unite them against you then create a muddle. That's what Kerry was saying. Only he couldn't say that straight out.
/Zin
-- Modified on 8/4/2004 9:58:33 PM