Serious questions I would like to know the answer to …
I've seen that site already thanks to BillKile, and we can have both sides go back and forth blaming Bush / FEMA / DHS / etc. vs. blaming the Governor / Mayor / Etc. all they want … put bluntly and honestly BOTH side failed the people.
HOWEVER
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2 things =
1.) IF Bush Jr. had signed off that New Orleans was going to be a disaster area, on the 26th/27th date like it’s been claimed, then doesn’t that put the thing under control of FEMA ? And in turn impose a bucket load of bureaucracy and guidelines that the Governor and Mayor of New Orleans may have been handcuffed by ? Anyone know the answer ? or have a link to a site that would outline the protocol that would HAVE to be followed in such a case ? From what I see in the web link ed2000 is that if the Hurricane is a cat 4 or 5 (it was rated a 5 just before hitting land fall) is that anything above a cat 4 falls to the jurisdiction of FEMA, in trying to find it again, I can't find to copy that line here, but I know I did see it in there somewhere, I did a quick read through the entire web site yesterday, but can't locate it now, but even if not, I still pose my primary question above.
I mean had I been office I still would have said FUCK protocol and done whatever I saw fit to save peoples lives and deal with the superiors later, so I don’t excuse that everything possible doesn’t seem to have been done AHEAD of the storm, but my question is … JUST WHO was technically IN CHARGE ? Seemed like no one after the storm hit land, but was it Local Gov or Federal Gov based upon Bush signing off that it was a Federal Disaster Area ? ? ?
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2.) Ok, Let’s blame the Mayor of N.O. and the Governor of Louisiana, Ok, and let’s say the roads and other inlets where so bad for FEMA to get in and save people in New Orleans. OK, but then what about Mississippi and Alabama ? Why did it also take FEMA et. all 5 days to get in there too and be of ANY help ?
I mean hell if the Red Cross and every damn Television Station in the damn World could be there, where was assistance from FEMA and the Federal Government ?
I’ve post a few reports and links as have others, that many National Guard bases / Military bases & personal / and other Nations had people, services, equipment and supplies sitting at the ready waiting to come in and help BOTH BEFORE and AFTER the storm struck on the 29th, and we’ve heard and seen reports that at least the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana had been requesting if not down right begging for help BOTH Before and After Katrina hit … yet nobody was ALLOWED to help, some not even STILL NOW. Can anyone answer WHY NOT ?
All I hear is wait get people rescued and things cleaned up before you start questioning and laying blame, and that how it’s easy to do so in hindsight, BUT without asking these questions and for demanding the best from our government both on a Local / State AND Federal level don’t we continue to let people die and suffer when maybe MORE could be getting done ?
I mean I posted a link from NOCOM ( Northern Command ) that said it had Naval ships floating RIGHT BEHIND KATRINA … but they couldn’t jump in and save anyone, because the orders to do so NEVER CAME. What kind of crap is that ?
You can Blame Mayor Nagin all you want for not having everyone out of town ahead of time, but let’s be realistic New Orleans is a major metropolitan city with an estimated population of over 1.3 million people for the Greater New Orleans area that needed to be evacuated. Mayor Nagin DID call for a mandatory evacuation, but how do you evacuate 1.3 million people on a City budget and a city of people that had many without the financial means to get out.
Again be realistic, and put yourself in other peoples shoes for a change, you barely have a job that pays the bills, you don’t have a car, everything you own in the world is in your home or apartment, you have a pet, HOW do you just leave that behind. I can understand why many didn’t, and unless visited by armed police and pulled out kicking and dragging and set on a bus {which again, be realistic that would have taken DAYS} there would have inevitably been SOME level of population left in New Orleans NO MATTER WHAT Mayor Nagin said, did, attempted to do, in fact WASN’T HE ONE OF THE PEOPLE that STAYED in New Orleans and tried to help every step of the way that he knew how ???
SO in that case, and after the storm hits, doesn’t the responsibility fall to the Federal Government to come in and save peoples lives ?
THAT is what people on this Forum are complaining about, and it just happens to be BUSH is responsible for the Federal Government and it was his actions that reshaped FEMA and the response and actions it could take by placing it under the supervision of the Department of Home Land Security. And by the budget cuts to it year, after year after year. And please don’t say so did Clinton, because Clinton has had NO say so over the matter for over 5 years now.
So can ANYONE answer those questions HONESTLY and without turning it into a Bash Bush vs. bash Nagin diatribe ? ? ? BillKile, want to discuss it like men ? ed2000 ? Snowman ? RTLW ? JBIRDCA ?
How about even a Bush hater, Zinaval, EmeraldVodka {where’d he go anyways ?} anyone ? Anyone have those answers ? ANYONE ?
-- edit or Ladies, NOSC, or the "other one" {who knows who she is} Forgot since I said discuss it like men above to BillKile, I don't want to exclude or get my butt kicked by "she who knows who she is".
-- Modified on 9/7/2005 3:33:11 AM
First, I'm upset that I wasn't listed as a Bush hater, but I'll let that slide. Having said that, I believe that there's plenty of blame to go around.
As for people not leaving, another point that I see missing from many arguments is that hurricane warnings come frequently, and then the storm turns and doesn't do much damage where it was predicted. Sure, staying is high-stakes gambling, but for those with so little, leaving the little bit they do have is that much harder. Thankfully, most of us will never fully grasp how poor these people are (or sadly, were). As we call this game from the sidelines, these folks were making roughly $3.50/hr, based on the median income statistics I've heard. Unemployment pays more than that where I live.
Yes, you are on the sidelines, but I would urge you to follow Ed2000's link (in a newer post than this thread) and follow along with ESTABLISHED PROTOCAL and the Standard Operating Procedures/Suggested Operating Guidelines. Over the next few weeks, months, you may hear those phrases come up with great frequency because when you are in an emergency situation, you act upon the dictate of the SOG's/SOP's. Most emergency agencies have done away with "procedures" in favor of "guidelines" in an effort skirt the assumed liability of not doing something by-the-book in a non textbook situation, such as this or in fact, any real emergency where unexpected event occur.
Neither George Bush nor Bill Clinton or any single person caused emergency services (LE,Medical, Fire et al) to operate in such a regimented manner, it evolved through textbooks, models, data and people in suits & ties trying to mitigate unforseen chaos from boardrooms.
Personally, based upon what I have read, heard, viewed, I won't be surprised if the body count goes in excess of 25,000 with the possible outcome that this city may never be rebuilt.
who wants answers to some of the questions you posed. I have the same questions myself and I have been reading a lot.
A couple of themes jump out. 1. Bush/blanco friction ensuerd FUBAR and....
this was bigger IN REALITY than anyone realized on paper. Does this make sense? Its like, you know how pictures never do a beuautiful place justice?
early break downs in commmunications lead to poor responses,
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/category/katrina-timeline
SATURDAY, AUGUST 27
In response to a letter from Governor Blanco, President Bush ordered a state of emergency for Louisiana, authorizing federal emergency management officials to release federal aid AND COORDINATE DISASTER RELIEF EFFORTS.
(So who does that put in "CHARGE" ? I'm asking ?)
SUNDAY, AUGUST 28, Morning
By 8:00 AM, Katrina, a category 5 hurricane, is headed straight for New Orleans. According to this peice in Editor and Publisher FEMA Director Brown, DHS Secretary Chertoff as well as local and state officials are informed by National Hurricane Director Max Mayfield via electronic briefing that the storm will cause massive damage and flooding – including levee breaches – in New Orleans 32 hours before the eye of the storm makes landfall.
MONDAY, AUGUST 29
Hurricane Katrina strikes New Orleans at 8:00 AM with winds at 150 MPH and a storm surge of 18 feet.
Michael Brown, in a telephone interview with The Associated Press, said the evacuation of the city and the general emergency response were working as planned in an exercise a year ago. "I was impressed with the evacuation, once it was ordered it was very smooth."
Afternoon
FEMA issues a statement urging first responders from other states NOT to come to disaster area unless there’s coordination between state and local disaster management officials.
At 1:45 PM, President Bush declares the states of Louisiana and Mississippi "Major Disaster Areas."
Evening
Mayor Nagin, in an interview with TP relates a conversation with federal disaster officials. "FEMA said give us a list of your needs," said Nagin, referring to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "And let me tell you, we’re giving them a hell of a list."
TUESDAY, AUGUST 30
Morning
Pentagon spokesman Di Rita issues statement saying "the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs, with at least 60 percent of the guard available in each state. He said about 6,500 National Guard troops were available in Louisiana, about 7,000 troops in Mississippi, nearly 10,000 in Alabama and about 8,200 in Florida."
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IMHO = I didn't seem like any REAL Federal HELP got to N.O. until Friday 2nd ..... not trying to slant it Bill just my opinion from what I could see on TV and the hear on Radio.
Anyways, Good time line Bill, thanks for the link.
Though the author of the site seems to have MANY MANY questions as do I. Mainly, "who really was suppose to have been in charge", and why did so much rescue equipment that seemed to be nearby and at the ready, NEVER get authorized to GO HELP ?
Some people told people like me to stop complaining and let the people on the ground do their job .... well maybe if we complained LOUDER that help wouldn't have been sitting on the sidelines letting people die. It's not about trying to BLAME, it's about trying to HELP and get the MOST HELP that could have been available.
More Questions need answers.
Thanks Bill
- Your PAL 
, Lunch Meat
-- Modified on 9/7/2005 9:55:09 AM
D. Regional Transit Authority
* Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current Standard Operating Procedures.
* Place special vehicles on alert to be utilized if needed.
* Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.
* If warranted by scope of evacuation, implement additional service.
*****ALSO*****
Identification of sheltering resources and the establishment of shelters and the training of shelter staff is important, as is the provision for food and other necessities to the sheltered. This preparation function is the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Preparedness.
Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.
