These crowds dwarf anything seen in Madison ever seen during the Vietnam era.

I saw this post on the internets. Someone emailed the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, thanking them for standing with the protesters. And he got a reply. It read:

Thank you very much for your e-mail. I’m impressed that you heard of me all the way in California, but I’m glad others are following our ordeal.

Thank you again.

Solidarity!

THE WISCONSIN PROFESSIONAL POLICE ASSOCIATION

Jim Palmer
Executive Director

...at a local restaurant in Madison. And the owner told him to get the hell out of his restaurant.

your links. First off, where's the 'heavy snow'? It's certainly not in any of the linked photos. Second, even the blogger seems to have problems believing the credibility of the restaurant's story. As do her respondents. If one group is able to get and release the name and phone number of the restaurant, why can't an opposing, or supportive group, do the same. Third, your links are all one sided. Got any from the opposition to keep this thread 'fair and balanced'?

most government work has historically been lower paying then their private sector counterparts. This is still true today, I'm guessing with the exception of low level secretaries.

This wasn't always the case mind you. The reason why gov't employees got pensions, sick leave, decent vacation days was to make up for this pay disparity. Of course, in the last 30 years, workers have been so screwed over that it's not always the case anymore.

Why drag a few workers down? What social benefit does it serve when this entire country is up to it's neck in debt at the household level? We should instead work on raising wages for the rest of the country so this economy can grow.

When doctors, and firefighters, and police officers, and teachers, and steelworkers, and truck drivers, and restaurant workers all stand together in solidarity against one guy, maybe it's not all those workers who's the asshole in this bunch.

-- Modified on 2/26/2011 9:56:47 PM

make far less than their counterparts at public schools. And they often times have no pension plans.

Just another lie being perpetrated by willywonka4u.

A few weather links, since you brought it up Jersey.

Weather for Madison for the last 3 days, showing light snow all day yesterday.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KMSN.html

7 day forecast for Madison showing snow and freezing rain.

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=WIZ063

A Madison weather blog for the last week showing up to a foot of snow just north of Madison.

http://addins.wkow.com/blogs/weather/category/cirrusweatherblog

Weather warnings for the state of Wisconsin. Sandbags are being offered to the public as flood protection against the snow, just west of Madison.

http://www.weather.gov/alerts/wi.html

I had a suspicion that the restaurant link may not be true, but with everything else happening today I didn't doublecheck it. My bad.

...the sentence "most government work has historically been lower paying then their private sector counterparts" was a lie?

By the way, according to wiki, the first charter school in the US was established in 1991.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school#History

100,000 public employees, getting fraudulent doctor's notes for being "sick" so that the very taxpayers they seek to defraud for wages 17%+ higher than comparable private sector jobs will have to foot the bill for their own undoing.

Only public employees can afford to protest like that in such numbers during the week.

Working people hold their protests on weekends, because they can't get doctors to sign fraudulent sick-day excuses.

Damn Willy, I use to THINK you were wrong about everything and belived all the B.S. people shoveled.

Looks like you just proved it....



-- Modified on 2/26/2011 9:37:43 PM

You have actually managed to lower your credibility from where you your previous low, which was already at zero. Congratulations for setting a new low for dishonesty on this board.

You and Zinaval would have made great buds, he too was a die hard lib, and like you he had a rather casual relationship with the truth.

You got caught in a lie, again.  Deal with it . . . .

What the teachers are doing in Wisconsin is despicable along with the doctors standing on the streets giving out doctors notes.  Teachers are supposed to be role models.  If anyone in the private sector did this they would not be paid and probably lose their jobs.  The fact that elected democrats have left the state they serve in this time of need is unbelievable.  As an independent in one of the bluest states in the nation I only hope the governor of Wisconsin prevails.  I have no problems with unions in the private sector, because if I chose not to purchase a product I do not have to.  However in the public sector  taxpayer dollars are being used to fund this.  Bottom line is they need to do something about deficit and future spending.  

Wisconsin state workers get paid 25% LESS than their private sector counterparts.

"What the teachers are doing in Wisconsin is despicable along with the doctors standing on the streets giving out doctors notes."

What's wrong with a little solidarity, sweetie?

"Teachers are supposed to be role models."

They ARE being role models. Of the HIGHEST caliber.

"If anyone in the private sector did this they would not be paid and probably lose their jobs."

Wrong. If anyone in the private section didn't have a UNION behind them, they would be fired.

"The fact that elected democrats have left the state they serve in this time of need is unbelievable."

They left the state because they had no other choice. The Democrats didn't cause this, Governor Walker did, and he did it SOLELY to establish a permenant Republican majority.

"As an independent in one of the bluest states in the nation I only hope the governor of Wisconsin prevails."

You better hope he doesn't, because sweetie, I gotta tell ya, if he does succeed a lot of people will have a lot less desposable income. Which means, you will be seeing fewer clients.

"I have no problems with unions in the private sector, because if I chose not to purchase a product I do not have to.  However in the public sector  taxpayer dollars are being used to fund this."

And 61% of the taxpayers support it. What's the problem?

"Bottom line is they need to do something about deficit and future spending."

This is NOT about the deficit or the budget. Wisconsin had a budget SURPLUS when Walker was sworn in. Now they have a 120 million deficit after he cut taxes on businesses. This is nothing more than a blantant attempt to remove all funding from the Democratic party so they they can established the Karl Rove dream of a permenant Republican majority, and nothing more.

Or did you just make that one up, too???

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/wisconsin_publicsector_workers_are_undercompensated/

The Economist followed up on this story.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/02/wisconsin_public_unions

...he's  just a little careless sometimes in his enthusiam for his leftish positions.  Kinda like Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck from the right.  Except, of course, the latter two are making lots of money distorting the truth!

does it say that teachers in private schools make more than teachers at public schools.

It talks about private sector workers.  That includes all private sector workers, not just teachers.

Again, you misconstrue (is that a better word than lie) the truth just to make a weak and feeble attempt to defend whatever liberal cause is out there.

Yep, you should move to fucking Madison. They need more pot smoking, freeloaders like you in that town.

I've never been accused of being silent on this board before. I guess that has to be a first, lol.

Jolene, have you given any more thought of joining the IUSW? I dunno if they do this, but imagine what could be possible if they could organize enough support to decriminalize or (heaven forbid) legalize what you do for a living. If that happened, you might be able to receive a pension and retirement plan or paid sick days off!

As I said, the Economist followed up on the EPI story. I would note that the Economist isn't exactly known for it's leftist bent. But it is the most respected economic publication in the world.

I would also note that David Kay Johnston noted that there has been some very bad reporting on this issue from the media.

http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument

I would also note piece from the EPI.

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/6759/

Note the sentence in this piece:

"Wisconsin state and local governments pay college-educated employees 25% less in annual compensation, on average, than private employers"

Would you also like a graph?

Take note, that originally I said to John, "most government work historically been lower paying then their private sector counterparts. This is still true today, I'm guessing with the exception of low level secretaries."

Low level secretaries, at least on the federal level would be GS-2's or GS-3's, where you can get a job with the Feds with just a high school diploma. And it looks like that my rather casual observation was correct.

Us freeloaders like to stick together.

It's called solidarity.

present published facts that you've found that dispute whatever "facts" he's spouting. Or conversely, ask him to provide multi-supported, published facts to support his "facts."

He has a tendency to become rather silent when you do that.

Willy actually came through this time with PUBLISHED FACTS and didn't just pull random numbers from out of his noggin.

The second reference uses the information from the first so I'm not sure just how much weight to give the second one; not as much as if it had been totally independent. Want to give us a third reference, but something independent of the first two?  

But, to give the devil his due, Willy actually came up with PUBLISHED FACTS, not just "facts."

"If teachers were role models they would be doing the job they were hired to do teaching the children."

They are teaching the children. They're teaching them quite possibly the most important lesson of all. That democracy requires the individual participation of its citizens.

"Many people in the private sector do not have unions wonka so I don't know what you are babbling about here."

That's not their choice.

"The elected officials did have a choice, to do their job.  Their job is to represent ALL constituents   If you don't get your way you cant run away."

And they clearly are doing a very good job representing their state by doing precisely what they want them to do: Blocking the passage of this bill by the only means left at their disposal. Governance is based upon the CONSENT of the governed. If Walker, and his supporters don't like that they fled the state as the only means possible to stop this bill, then they should KILL THE BILL.

If teachers were role models they would be doing the job they were hired to do teaching the children.   Many people in the private sector do not have unions wonka so I don't know what you are babbling about here.  The elected officials did have a choice, to do their job.  Their job is to represent ALL constituents   If you don't get your way you cant run away.  You should fight for what you believe in.  But I suppose in your opinion they are great role models too.  As for your concern about my welfare.  I don't want the government subsidizing my job so if it were that I would see less people so be it.

you know what you're talking about and less like an enthusiastic-but-uninformed idiot undeserving of serious consideration.

The epi you posted last time is a rehash of the one you posted today.

I admit I mostly enjoyed the "Bad Reporting" piece because it made the entire debate a little clearer. Including that you, also, have fallen into the traps that poor journalism has created. Johnston covered about three different things in the piece (poor journalism based mostly on assumptions rather than checked facts, the economic underpinnings of Wisconsin's workers, and economics in general), all of which could have been separate articles, but work here because he's mostly taking the journalists to task.

Altogether, however, this is the kind of thing I expect from you from now on rather than the hyperbole you're so fond of.

Also, do this kind of "discussion" on your own time - and NOT while you're at work! When working for Caesar, give Caesar your best, educated efforts since that's what he's paying you for. When it's your own time, do what you will.