Nice to see that some participants on the board are mature enough to give credit where credit is due. Sad to see some lack the class and/or maturity to do so.

Obama deserves more kudos than I ever imagined that I would give him. This was without doubt his finest hour, and he led with courage, and made some tough calls. He handled the intelligence and decision making brilliantly. I sincerely applaud him. The choice to use ground forces rather than missiles was a very gutsy, and risky decision that could easily have blown up in his face. Yet, I agree that it was the right decision, and I applaud him for making it. Likewise, the ultra tight lid he maintained was also a difficult and gutsy decision. Not only was Pakistan not tipped off in the least, neither were any but the most crucial members of his own administration informed in advance. I am sure more than a few feathers were ruffled in private over that decision, but again, it was the right decision. Lastly, I thought it was truly classy that before addressing the nation, he called both former Presidents Clinton and Bush personally. Very, very classy.

However, whether you are mature enough to admit it or not, Obama today was the culmination of a job that was started not with Bush, but with Clinton. Clinton began the hunt for Obama, Bush picked up where he left off and expanded the hunt. Bush initiated numerous policies that led directly to the assassination of OBL. Those policies tarnished Bush's reputation in the history books, but, just Obama did today, he made tough decisions because they were the right decisions. Because of that, we got the son of a bitch.

At the time Bush took office, our intelligence network was minuscule in the middle east. He significantly increased it, pushing the envelope with policies such as the NSA wiretap program, and enhanced interrogation tactics. It was Bush, not Obama who secured a foothold in Afghanistan, and established the base from which the operation launched. Enhanced interrogation tactics yielded the name of the courier that led us to OBL.

It is silly to debate whether the tactics worked or not simply because they weren't used at the time the name was given. KSM had already proved to be a wealth of information that greatly increased our knowledge of the upper echelons of Al Qaida, as well as ongoing plots. This gem was without doubt, the icing on the cake. But by that point, he had already been broken with the waterboarding, and a wealth of information extracted from him. It is no great surprise that after all that, we finally got one last piece of useful information from him.

Finally, regardless of whatever words Bush may have spoken, not once did he move the CIA off the objective of finding and capturing or killing Bin Laden. To say that he didn't care about finding OBL is disingenuous. Today was the result of a nearly 8 year long process. I'm glad Obama at long last got the opportunity to give the "go" order and finally bring the bastard to justice. But not for one minute am I going to cheapen the many years long effort of countless men just to take a swipe at either Bush or Clinton simply because OBL's capture didn't happen fast enough. Thousands of man hours have been dedicated to today, thousands of lives have been sacrificed for today. When your immaturity won't allow you to acknowledge Bush's efforts, you cheapen and dismiss their hard work and sacrifice.

PS. I have very high praise for Obama tonight, but I still won't vote for him in 2012. Admitting Bush might have done something right won't mean you have to stop hating him. It might however, mean you are capable of a level of maturity and objectivity that you have yet to display thus far. Just something to think about.

All of the people who are pissing all over themselves trying to make this a political "who gets credit for this" should be ignored.  And they should also be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

This was not a political victory. This was not a campaign move. This was not a "look at what I did" event.

This was America -- all Americans -- doling out justice to a slaughtering criminal who ordered and orchestrated the worst attacks ever on our nation.

I said immediately last night that President Obama and the counter-terrorism specialists -- with the brilliant work of our Navy Seals -- did a tremendous job of taking the final step to get this evil man.

And to those people who have taken this moment and have tried to use it to once again display their hatred for our former Commander-in-Chief President George W. Bush, I have just three words to say.

Go Fuck Yourselves!!!

May 1 2003, CinC Bush makes a speech wearing a flight suit and a stuffed codpiece in front of a banner reading 'Mission Accomplished'.

May 1 2011 CinC Barack Obama makes a speech detailing how he accomplished the mission Bush failed at.


Some folks talk.

Others get it done.

Hail to the chief!

So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is captured and interrogated under the Bush Administration.  That leads directly to intelligence of names of couriers that can lead to OBL.  All the Democrat Cunts complain about poor Sheihk and say these kinds of interrogations don't work but somehow see the validity in employing this intelligence and techniques used under the Bush Admin..  WOW!!!!  WHAT A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE!  SO MANY NEW INNOVATIONS!!

I will say Obama was a little different the way he kept referring to himself during the speech.  

-- Modified on 5/2/2011 7:50:53 PM

"Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic."


Thanks for playing, better luck next time!

Wasn't it in the most evil place in the whole wide world?  Wasn't this in the place that every little cunt wanted shut down because it was so mean to all the innocent Muslims?  He was interrogated and the intelligence was obtained in Guantanamo Bay!!!!  The place that shouldn't exist in Obama's eyes.  And I'm sure water boarding had NOTHING to do with him giving up the info.  I'm also confident we would have gotten this info if we put them in a federal penitentiary and read them their Miranda rights.

Please let's get back to your original post.  What was the big difference Obama used to capture bin laden that wasn't a direct result of Bush policies?

-- Modified on 5/2/2011 8:00:14 PM

-- Modified on 5/2/2011 8:01:28 PM

Strike 2 - wanna try for 3?


Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source
Monday, 02 May 2011 01:02 PM
By Jim Meyers and Ashley Martella

Read more on Newsmax.com: Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches” and says the notion that terrorist suspects were waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay is a “myth.”

Rumsfeld also claims that elements of Pakistani intelligence could have been complicit in hiding the terrorist mastermind, asserts that his killing exonerates George W. Bush’s approach to fighting terrorism, and warns that terrorists will likely try to avenge bin Laden's death with new attacks against America or its allies.

Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense under Gerald Ford from 1975 to 1977, then under George W. Bush from 2001 to 2006, and as a member of the Bush administration was one of the chief architects of America’s response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

What was the difference you referenced on YOUR ORIGINAL POST??  Who obtained the intelligence? Where was it obtained?  What was Obama's innovation??  you don't have that answer because Obama followed up with existing Bush policies. Kudos to him for doing the right thing but it sort of kills your latest idiotic post. Before you make yet another idiotic post you need to realize your will be exposed.  Just like this time.

OBL evaded capture due to botch under GWB administration letting the motherfucker escape capture. Looks like OC & SOTF have partisan "selective memories".

Partisan? You have got to be shitting me. I'm not even going to dignify your post with a response. You truly don't deserve one.

Without out a doubt, OBL was hidden by Pakistani's. There is absolutely no way, OBL could hide near a military academy and military base without ISI and the army knowing about it. Both Gilani and Zardari knew it as well. KSM would not have known where in the hell OBL was hiding then and if he knew and told it, somebody was sleeping at the wheel.

Basic difference is, some people scream a lot and carry no stick and some people don't talk a lot but carry big stick and are not afraid to use it at the appropriate time.

Brilliantly carried out intelligence operation. Nothing but brilliant. I voted for him before and plan to do the same 2012.

I agree with almost everything you say except the PS.  Here are a couple of additional thoughts:
1) According to reports, neither Obama nor any of his people knew for sure Bin Laden was inside the compound.  So it was an even more risky attempt than was thought.
2) Obama was offered the option of obliterating the compound with missile strikes but declined because he wanted rock-solid evidence if Bin Laden was there.  He was willing to take the obvious risk in order to accomplish that goal.
3) Clinton had Bin Laden in his sights for a missile strike that could have killed Bin Laden in an Al Quaeda camp in Afghanistan in the mid 90s but did not act soon enough.  I don't think this makes him the blamee for 9/11 but shows how important decisive action is when intelligence is available.  All the more reason why Obama should get credit for spine and decisiveness on this.

totally!  During a war in a mountainous terrain one man snuck out on horseback in a small party.  That was Bush's fault because he was there with a sniper rifle and missed the shot. Bush was the there is his General Patton outfit and said "never mind the tall guy running away".  If Obama was there all of the military officers, soldiers, etc. in Tora Bora would have gotten him because of Obama's super-soldier training.

Welcome to the mind of a liberal douche ba... uh, I mean independent.

I don't see any of our more conservative members hesitating to give Obama the credit he is due. Its not hard to spot the partisans here.

Because I have been reading the board.

What I see are alot of conservatives who have been more than willing to give their 'nemesis' the credit and praise he deserves.

And I see liberals who seem to think that history began on Jan 20, 2009, and nothing that happened prior to that date matters, and god forbid anyone who did anything prior to that date be credited for contributing to our success in eliminating Bin Laden.

I'm not naive enough to expect Willy or Pri to admit that Bush's policies might not have been so bad after all. But an acknowledgement of the fact that this was an 8 year long process, in which Obama was only a player for the last 2 years would be nice. And its pretty nauseating to see all these grand claims of Obama's greatness, while the very policies that brought us this success were also the policies that they clamored to put Bush on trial for.

If you're going to succeed in rebutting a post this is a clever way to do it: concoct a ridiculous satiric post, but by all means don't actually respond to the real allegation.  In fact, what happened was OBL was surrounded in Tora Bora and the US decided that instead of sending in US troops they'd outsource the job to the Northern Alliance.  That's how OBL got away.  Might he have escaped anyway?  We'll never know.  But if we'd dropped in some SEALS, Special Forces and Ranger units, well...my money's on them nailing Osama's scalp to a wall.  I would have happily applauded Bush if that had happened, having totally supported the Afghan invasion.  He lost me when he took his eye off the ball there and went to Iraq in a misguided attempt to finish the job his Daddy started (which I also supported), and to "spread democracy" in the mid east.

You just did.  But, yes, it's too bad things have gotten partisan over this.  And it only took a day.  Sad.

I read the entire article (not just the excerpt you posted) and it  did not make clear exactly what were the standard techniques being used when KSL divulged the courier's name.  I  honestly would like to know because it's been the view of most experts on the subject that any form of torture simply doesn't work to gain accurate info.  If it did, I would reluctantly support it.  One interesting fact in this area comes to me from a couple of old High School buddies who were Air Force officers during Nam.  In OCS they were subjected to harsh interrogation techniques the North Koreans used on the crew of the Peublo, including waterboarding.  According to one of them,  the technique may work well after the actual waterboarding has ended.  By then, the mere  threat of it can be enough to get someone to give up info previously withheld.

Go to the Mission Accomplished speech, which I admit was premature.  Count the number of times Bush took credit for what seemed like a major victory at the time.  He used "I" very rarely, and usually it was in reference to he looked at the sailors and "I" (sic) see......

Do the same thing for Obama.  I directed. I told my CIA head, I decided, I, I I, I, I,

As I say, and as you will misunderstand, at the time of the Mission Accomplished it looked like a great victory. Yes, it was premature, but if 200 terrorist strikes result because of bin Laden's death, this may turn to ash also.

Yeah, make a joke about a stuffed cod piece, which you can make up because it doesn't matter.

I, I, I, I..

And when he is at the Trace Center in two days, let's see how may "I"s

He did decide to go ahead with the mission.  But everything else was "them" and "they."

-- Modified on 5/3/2011 3:21:01 PM

the partisanship is coming from both sides.

I did a post earlier that gave Bush some credit.  I have not (and do not plan to) go back and do a survey, but I don't think I was alone.  But don't worry, I doubt I"ll be praising Bush very often.