of his treachery. I wouldn't be able to live with myself, if I had done something so vile that my son took his own life in order to escape the shame and harassment I caused him.

Maybe that thing he calls a wife has some feelings.

more likely that this tragic event was motivated by the ever tightening legal noose being applied by the trustee and the other victim creditors, with the IRS and the DA still to be heard from.


      This guy was paid about 30 million a year over the last 10 years in salary for services he provided to the Ponzi scheme and that does not count the amounts he withdrew from his own investments. If he was unaware of the fraud, he at the very least was willfully blind.

     Had he lived, his future would have been the fast train from millionaire to pauper and that is just from the civil suits. And a criminal indictment was just waiting for the proof to surface.

    So I can't agree that it is reasonable to speculate he killed himself bc of the shame for his father's actions. Far more likely, his own misdeeds, greed, and dim future were the true motivators.

Assuming a person like Bernie even cares.  That's a big assumption.

What's the difference between what Bernie Madoff did and what any other capitalist in this country does every single day?

it' difficult to cross examine a dead man.

again?

     Your post is utterly preposterous after the first paragraph. Far from being a piker in the world of Ponzi schemes, BM in dollar amount terms is the greatest Ponzi artist in history. About the only good thing I can say for him is that he robbed from the very rich and gave ...well to himself and family but then also at least some to charity.

     Comparing him to the low wage government regulators who correctly or incorrectly made decisions during the financial crisis is beyond absurd, even for you. And as for fine upstanding corporations like of Bank of America that were buffeted by bad management decisions, you should be aware that BOA paid back those tarp funds with interest and the government made a profit on the entire program.

should feel some guilt and shame for his culpability in any possible involvement,  in his misdeeds, by his son?

"elation, happiness or joy." And, I think most people you would talk to, upon mentioning Bernie Madoff's name, would consider him one of the biggest crooks, at least in recent times.

" What's the difference between what Bernie Madoff did and what any other capitalist in this country does every single day?"

 The big difference, capitalists give you a product for your money.
Bernie was stealing from many people who thought they were making a investment.There is no logical comparison to capitalism.
If not for capitalism with  freedom of competition, I couldn't save $2800 a year shopping at Wal Mart.
I find it odd that that many people actively  against the death penalty for violent brutal crimes, find joy in someone's suicide who merely participated in swindling fools.
The Hypocrisy is loud and clear
I feel sorrow for his Mother and children.
  There is no value in a healthy persons suicide.
On the other hand you have no children.
I won't complain if you lose playing chicken with a Metro bus.


 


-- Modified on 12/12/2010 12:45:26 PM

Social Security has got to be by far the biggest Ponzi scheme in history.

and just like all Ponzi schemes, it is destined to collapse, even worse its going to collapse in our lifetimes. Anyone with a seventh grade math skills and a calculator should not be surprised.

Say what you want about GW, but even he recognized that Social Security cannot possibly sustain itself. It could have been his legacy, but instead he will just go down as the guy in charge when the housing bubble burst, and the guy who couldn't finish the wars he started, even though I agree with McCain. I don't care if we are there for a hundred years as long as the oil keeps flowing and our troops quit dying.

and for the idiots that think I say this only because I am in the oil business. Cutting off the ME oil would make me wealthy beyond my dreams,but I still don't wish for it to happen.

contributions to pay off old obligations does not make it a Ponzi scheme.

    In a Ponzi scheme, investors are induced by fraudulent misrepresentations to make contributions and it is just a matter of time before they learn of the fraud and suffer the complete loss of theirr investment when they stop receiving returns on their investment.

      There is no fraud in  Social security and you have no choice but to contribute if you are a covered employee. But, most important of all, Social Security is implicitly backed by sovereign credit and investors will never, ever suffer the complete loss of their investment unless the entire country goes under.

to cause or contribute to the financial crisis that was
1. criminal,
2. tortious. or
3. for personal gain

and I will treat you to another week at the Priapus Pines Adult Campground (clothing optional for men).

as you state "investors"(taxpayers) are induced by fradulent misrepresentations before they learn of the fraud. Exactly what is going to happen to SS. You also don't have to be a "covered employee" to be forced into the system. Anyone who earns a living is forced into the system, people like me are forced into paying "selfemployment tax" which is both the employer's and employees share of SS.

Eventually the nation will be forced to either "go under" or stop paying benefits, it's much, much worse than a Ponzi in all actuality. In a Ponzi, no one holds a gun to your head and forces your money from you, the same cannot be said about social security.

is not a crime - it is called gainful employment.

     Not sure what your beef is with the Federal Reserve but if we didn't have it and the FEd system  monetary policy would be in shambles, the financial system would be uncontrollable, and banks would be largely unregulated.

     You should also note that far from being peers of Madoff, Paulson and company took incredible pay cuts to become public servants and Tim Geithner likewwise could make a hell of a lot more money in the markets than he does as a federal employee.

Fund that collects and invests contributions.

       About 75% of the payments are paid back out in benefits. It is only the excess that is potentially applicable to the general budget but what you also miss is that excess SS funds are loaned to the government who issues bonds that pay interest in return.

     So, sorry, but  social security payments are not simply tossed into a general fund without accountability as you suggest.

Unless you are already in your sixties, you have a better chance of retiring off of your BAC stock. lmao

The so called accountability that you speak of is nothing more than the fox guarding the henhouse. It is an illusion that will have to be dealt with sooner or later. I would trust Bernie Madoff's accountants before putting my faith in SS for my retirement.

probably much more than the underlying securities they represent.

You take the bonds, I'll take the paper they are written on. Haven't you heard? It's a green economy, recycling is in. lmao

Bernie Madoff offered something to his customers. He lied to them, telling them his product was worth more than it was.

Every capitalist sells products that are worth less than it costs him to produce.

I fail to see the difference.

You may have noticed Quad, that I didn't say word one about Bernie Madoff's son.

But thanks for wishing for my untimely demise. Happy Holidays Quad.

"Every capitalist sells products that are worth less than it costs him to produce."

Lets take gas as a example. If not for big oil the price of gas could easily be 50 bucks a gallon. I don't see a problem with a company making a profit when the product is sold to me for much less than I could make it myself.An example for the energy conservers. I doubt I could buy scrap aluminum and a rubber tree and make a decent bicycle for less than 500.
 On the other hand Bernie Madoff was selling worthless products to many people.

"I fail to see the difference."

You must not be trying .



"You may have noticed Quad, that I didn't say word one about Bernie Madoff's son."
 
  I did. Congratulations for stifling yourself.

"But thanks for wishing for my untimely demise. Happy Holidays Quad."

 I don't wish for your untimely demise. I said I wouldn't complain if you brought it upon yourself playing chicken with a metro bus.
Some people don't mind risking their life for the thrill of adventure.
Even though I disagree with more than 90% of your written views and I often wonder if you are a danger to civilization,I wouldn't cheer about your early demise .
Merry Christams and Happy New Year to you.

...you're saying you're too inept to make a bicycle. Fair enough.

"I often wonder if you are a danger to civilization"

Thanks for your vote of confidence in thinking I'm a common criminal.

-- Modified on 12/13/2010 1:04:43 PM

anyone ever heard the old saying that if you can't laugh at something you'll go mad?

Well, in an effort to save the sanity of this board, I offer this little clip from the Daily Show. If you dislike Geitner, you will love this clip.

" you're saying you're too inept to make a bicycle. Fair enough"
"Thanks for your vote of confidence in thinking I'm a common criminal."

I'm not the brightest kid on the block but I'm smart enough to realize a bicycle manufacturer can make a bicycle for me a whole lot better and cheaper than I could on my own. If thats InepT just call me I.T.
If I had to guess,other than your work ethics, I would wager you are a honest guy who treats his neighbors well,and would never become a common crinminal except some mild anarchy so you could claim police brutality..
It's some of your ideas that could be a danger if the authorities were ever inclined to follow your line of thinking, that are a danger to the civilization I enjoy.
A happy Cuban citizen might disagree with me.

Everyone is making the assumption that the son killed himself, please, if you earned $30M yearly for 10 years, how much would you have tucked away esp. when it's through ill-gotten-gains.  He could have paid out the lawsuits from the money they could find and then pick up and start over with his brown box of cash/diamonds/bonds.  Reports said his 2 year old son was there and he texted his wife.  1st off, anyone can text from someone elses phone.  2nd, he would not have had the 2 year old with him, a 2 year old is extremely vulnerable, I don't care how depressed he was.  3rd, Bernie pissed alot of people off (People with a boatload of money).  So if you really want to hurt someone and keep them in agony you have to go after the #1 thing that every parent has - their kids.  So now Bernie has to look in the mirror everyday knowing his actions took his son's life.   Bernie's actions took money from families that will affect the children of these folks, it would only be fitting to do something to affect Bernie's kids. Just a thought from a sick mind   Think this post can get back to Bernie.

"I'm not the brightest kid on the block but I'm smart enough to realize a bicycle manufacturer can make a bicycle for me a whole lot better and cheaper than I could on my own."

Most people can do any number of things Quad. I didn't know a thing about woodworking or electronics growing up, but today I make my own guitars from damn near scratch, and build my own electronic gadgets. If I had a group of people to cooperate with me to pull our investment, then I could do it for far cheaper than the going market rate of these things. You can do the same thing. Furthermore, such things can be done without stealing from anyone. I do it damn near every week.

"It's some of your ideas that could be a danger if the authorities were ever inclined to follow your line of thinking, that are a danger to the civilization I enjoy."

I'd wager my ideas, if implimented (like that's ever going to happen) would give you a better standard of living. It would also give nearly every American the same thing. I believe in the things I do because I believe that wherever possible we should try to eliminate human misery.

"A happy Cuban citizen might disagree with me."

And a happy Marxist would disagree with me. But thanks for the insult, regardless.