Politics and Religion

This is likely what happened in the crash…
RespectfulRobert 36 reads
posted
2 / 7

How in the world did a chopper with three on board NOT see an airliner right in front of them? Even at night, the lights of the plane would be very large and very bright. It should have been clearly visible from the cockpit. Due to the differing design, they have much more visibility than the plane does and it's much more maneuverable.  
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The other issue is what is the chopper even doing anywhere in that area? The flight path of the helo crosses between the plane and the runway when it's THAT close to landing????? That is crazy. Why not just route the helos around the runway so they never get between any air traffic and the landing strip?

LostSon 43 Reviews 32 reads
posted
3 / 7

Posted By: RespectfulRobert
Re: Two things.  
How in the world did a chopper with three on board NOT see an airliner right in front of them? Even at night, the lights of the plane would be very large and very bright. It should have been clearly visible from the cockpit. Due to the differing design, they have much more visibility than the plane does and it's much more maneuverable.  
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 The other issue is what is the chopper even doing anywhere in that area? The flight path of the helo crosses between the plane and the runway when it's THAT close to landing????? That is crazy. Why not just route the helos around the runway so they never get between any air traffic and the landing strip?
This is a video shot on a GoPro but it shows the 4 fuselage  supports in the cockpit (the outer two would be analogies with the A pillars of a car) and this is pure supposition on my part but they seem to have mistaken which aircraft is which and with the two angles, lost the approaching jet liner behind one of the supports. If the lights weren’t head on you would be surprised how easy they would be to miss especially with the approach speeds we’re talking here. The jet was doing 140 miles an hour.

As for why the helicopter was there? Fort Belvoir  is very close and this particular squadrons job is the fly generals around the area so they were practicing for their actual job.  

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/01/30/3-army-soldiers-feared-dead-tragic-collision-passenger-plane-near-dc-airport.html?amp

http://youtu.be/WzBx53I1fXc?si=NnzN9lqNWTQoGMhF

impposter 49 Reviews 45 reads
posted
4 / 7

More information keeps coming in (and that's a GOOD thing) but some external (non-FAA, non-NTSB, non-WH) analysts are offering their opinions and usually including an "as of now" disclaimer.
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As of now (when I am posting this based on articles published withing the past 5-10 hours), it would appear to be helicopter pilot error: they were not where they were allowed to be and at a height (elevation) they were not allowed to be. All indications (thus far) are that the jet was exactly where it was supposed to be and followed the flight path (runway 1, dog legging to runway 33) exactly as it was supposed to do; black box data will (I hope) show that air speed, aileron settings, landing gear, and all other tech settings were where they were supposed to be.  
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Still to be determined from black box, helicopter voice recordings, etc.: was there a medical incident (pilot health issue) or instrument error or failure; was there some green laser prankster blinding the helo pilot; was there a drone or a ground launched projectile interfering with the helo. Any other nefarious interference (other than from the WH, that is)?  
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The videos show the fireball upon collision. I am ASSUMING that that was from fuel tanks. Anybody have experience with such fuel tank explosions? I.e., this was a training flight so the helo was probably NOT carrying ordnance (bombs, air-to-(ground or air) missiles, etc.. I ASSUME that if there was something explosive on the helo that the fireball would have been much bigger and the dispersion of shrapnel and debris much worse. Your thoughts, if any?
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Several have speculated that the helo pilots "visual contact" was for the wrong aircraft. In addition to several other possible (but unlikely) aircraft distractions, the DC skyline at night has a lot of lights. Could that have caused the pilots to misidentify the threat or not even "see" the jet?  
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Another analyst said that it is essentially impossible for any Biden hire to be serving as an ATC at Reagan airport. You would need 5 years or even MORE experience at increasingly difficult airports before you would be assigned to Reagan. Another analyst said that there were zero DEI ATCs hired under Biden. There is rigorous training with a lot of testing points to weed out those who aren't up to speed. MANY trainees, white and non-white, DEI and non-DEI, fail to get all the way through ATC training.  (Attention Deficit Disorder Trump would not make it through ATC training.)  
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To repeat (awaiting confirmation from agencies or other sources): ZERO chance of ANY Biden ATC hire to be serving at Reagan without 5+ years of experience. ZERO Biden DEI ATC hires during his term.

Posted By: RespectfulRobert
Re: Two things.  
How in the world did a chopper with three on board NOT see an airliner right in front of them? Even at night, the lights of the plane would be very large and very bright. It should have been clearly visible from the cockpit. Due to the differing design, they have much more visibility than the plane does and it's much more maneuverable.  
 .  
 The other issue is what is the chopper even doing anywhere in that area? The flight path of the helo crosses between the plane and the runway when it's THAT close to landing????? That is crazy. Why not just route the helos around the runway so they never get between any air traffic and the landing strip?

RespectfulRobert 33 reads
posted
5 / 7

Why they would be anywhere near that crowded air space to begin with is crazy. No helo should ever be crossing the final approach line for a landing plane. As to all the reasons that this may have happened you have done a nice job of covering the possibilities, as per usual. But moving the helos out of that immediate area seems like priority number one and then let the investigation play out.  
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Let's hope Trump fires all the midget pilots and every lesbian air traffic controller bc as Willy so rightfully pointed out, they are clearly the main problem. smh

inicky46 61 Reviews 39 reads
posted
6 / 7

1) While you may be right about helicopter pilot error, if they weren't where they were supposed to be that's also the responsibility of the Air Traffic Controller.
2) These helos are used for VIP transport and are probably unarmed.
3) I checked on line and Blackhawks have self-sealing fuel tanks. So whatever exploded it probably was not the tanks on the chopper, although with a big enough impact anything is possible. Romain Grosjean, and F! driver in 2023 had such a violent crash his self-sealing tanks ruptured and he was lucky to survive.

impposter 49 Reviews 49 reads
posted
7 / 7

According to the ATC - CRJ - PAT recordings being played all over the internet, ATC warned PAT about CRJ and to go behind it. PAT confirmed that they had them on visual and requested "visual separation." According to commentary by pilots and experts, requesting ****"visual separation"**** means they've got it, they don't need the ATC to control the situation any more. "Requesting visual separation" released the ATC to direct their attention and efforts elsewhere (other aircraft). ATC _DID_ alert PAT again and PAT confirmed visual again and repeated the request for "visual separation." One commenter did say that the ATC could have been more specific and said something like "Do you have a visual on CRJ ****AT 2 o'clock****?" (or wherever it was).  If PAT had a visual on the trailing aircraft, they might have been looking at 9 o'clock. "Huh? What? We have a visual at 9 o'clock. That's not CRJ? Somebody look to the right. ... Oh crap! Plane at 2 o'clock! Dive! Dive!" Adding the "at 2 o'clock" detail MIGHT have prevented the collision.  
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There is still no explanation of why the PAT helo was at 300-400 ft and not at 200 ft or below. Maybe their altimeter was not working properly. The NTSB will try to figure that out and check maintenance logs and problem reports.  
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Also, RR might be amazed at these maps that show the helo routes near DCA and the data, below, about the number of helos flying around DCA (88,000 helo flights in just 3 years!) ... albeit without incident.
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http://www.npr.org/2025/01/31/nx-s1-5282238/map-helicopter-traffic-dca-plane-crash
Map: A look at helicopter traffic patterns over D.C. - January 31, 2025
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"FAA designated helicopter routes near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. There are six routes helicopters can take near DCA, including one that follows the Potomac and crosses in front of runway 33.  
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"Several helicopter routes pass by and even over DCA, including the one followed by the Black Hawk helicopter that crashed into the inbound American Airlines flight on Wednesday. The recommended maximum altitude for helicopters on this route is 200 feet. AA Flight 5342's last transmitted altitude was approximately 300 feet. ...
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"Commercial planes also share the skies with helicopters. Over a three-year period ending in 2019, there were about 88,000 helicopter flights within 30 miles of Reagan National Airport, including about 33,000 military and 18,000 law enforcement flights, according to a Government Accountability Office report published in 2021. ... "
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See the article for another map (only one image per post). See the map image posted below and maybe a Washingtonian can please help me with this:  What is the Virginia nighttime skyline along the line of sight of the helo pilot just before the collision? I.e., extend the last segment of the blue flight path southwest towards the "A" in "VIRGINIA" and northeast towards the "W" in "WASHINGTON." Are there any photographs from any time (not even the night of the collision) of what the VA skyline normally looks like from the northeast side of the river?  Are there bright lights? Big lights? Flashing lights? Construction lights? Etc..

Posted By: RespectfulRobert
Re: There are already saying the training flights will be moved.
Why they would be anywhere near that crowded air space to begin with is crazy. No helo should ever be crossing the final approach line for a landing plane. As to all the reasons that this may have happened you have done a nice job of covering the possibilities, as per usual. But moving the helos out of that immediate area seems like priority number one and then let the investigation play out.  
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 Let's hope Trump fires all the midget pilots and every lesbian air traffic controller bc as Willy so rightfully pointed out, they are clearly the main problem. smh
EDIT: The posted image is slightly distorted from the image in the original NPR link. The "line of sight" in the distorted image would be more like A-to-H in "virginiA to blue---line to wasHington".  And the distortion might vary more on other computers and browsers.

-- Modified on 1/31/2025 7:32:06 PM

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