The American way is NOT to show a united front and fall in lock step with our leaders. what Americans have fought for since the beginning is the right to have a voice, and the right to air that voice no matter how unpopular, or in the case of many of our SPOTY candidates, no matter how stupid that POV might be.

BTW like most men my age, I served and I just don't think it is/was that big a deal. Not everybody who wears the uniform is a hero.  I think the pendulum has swung too far from the my days when veterans were spit on,  to today where even guys who work in the motor pool are given hero status. The truth is somewhere in between. It's the same with hookers, Hookers are not people to be looked down on, nor are they all "Goddesses", they are simply people, the same goes for members of our military, they are simply people just like the rest of us.

said on veterans day,  but does it really mean a damn thing to the masses.  I think not.  For,  if one really wishes to convey that they  do, in fact,  appreciate what these unsung heroes,  the ones who have died and the ones who remain with us,  with all their trials and tribulations that war has done to their mind bodies and spirits,  we,  the masses,  the politicos, the opposing parties,  the men women and children,  would stand up and say,  We are Americans!!!,  and with that we all have different views on any given subject  (for that is what our luminaries,  (yes,  to me they are "the luminaries), died for)  not so that we could chisel at one another's throat and call each names that only tears the person doing the name calling done,  and gives them no credibility,  but also tears down our great country, and gives our great country,  no credibility.   We,  the masses,  should stand shoulder to shoulder to show the world and these great men and women that they did not die in vain.

Also GaGambler is not totally wrong with some of his comments either.

As GaGambler remarks, "the truth is somewhere in between."

but as I said earlier, I don't really consider my military service as all that special. Millions of men and women before me served, and countless millions more will serve in the future. IMHO it doesn't make any of us but a special few actual "heroes"

Some of them were actual heroes, even if they were the "reluctant type"

Being a hero isn't a matter of why you are there in the first place, it's how you conduct yourself once you get there.

-- Modified on 11/11/2014 1:11:05 PM

I would agree more if there was one. That wouldn't be special, if you were forced to serve.

WHAT!
Am I  reading this correctly?  If a guy is drafted he is nothing special?  Odd,  I saw some brave acts executed by draftees.  Was not Sgt. Alvin York a draftee?
Well, yes to GG.   When I was in the Army,  the ratio of "Trigger Pullers" to non-combat personnel was about 1 to 8, but of that 12 percent close to half were draftees.
More ridiculous is you statement :   "But anyone who has served since the draft ended is extraordinarily brave, if not heroic. "
Let's see.... Some 20 yr old flippin burgers, thinks "hey maybe I should join the service and get some training, so I could get a decent job.... He is not too bright but manages to get into cooks and bakers school.  He spends is hitch at Fort Lewis, Wa.  doing... What?.....flipping burgers!  
Yeah you're right. A real genuine hero he is...

I personally value freedom from somewhere deep within my DNA.   I cannot imagine living or being born anywhere but the USA.  I prefer harmony and dislike wars.  Maybe that comes from a selfish standpoint because a sibling has done 5 tours overseas since 911.   And I didn't understand the sacrifice of missed birthdays, Christmas.  And then not getting the home the same as before they left.

My point was that people who volunteer are more courageous than draftees only in the act of volunteering. I wasn't commenting on their actions and service afterwards. Of course millions of draftees served honorably and acted heroically.

Again, you don't know feces.  A whole lot of guys volunteered and enlisted, into the Navy, Air Farce, and CC, specifically to avoid being drafted and becoming 11B.  Also quite a few guys went RA, with the promise of attending. "special schools of your choice".  Quite a few got lucky and were stationed in Germany, Korea or state side.  Yeah really tough duty... All that cheap good beer, the strong dollar and YES all those fine sweet fraulines .
Me?  I got drafted, in '68 while in my 2nd year at a major university.  This was right after the TET Offensive.  Yeah, I could have gotten a doctors note, saying I had asthma, allergies, a bad knees or some other false bullshit excuse,  hey OJ, and every other pro athlete got deferments for some sort of knee or hip problem.  Yeah, I could have wimped-out and went to Canada, but NO. I WENT.  Because of my sense of duty!!
Stop talking out of your arse, and get the facts..  
So, mister know-it-all.... Why did you not serve..... Chicken

the bridge dwellers , a cheap blanket , sleeping bag or maybe some conversation and appreciaton can go a long way . A lot of them just aren't ready come inside yet. The wanna bees don't understand that .  

Many of the rah rah enlistees back in the Vietnam era who didn't wait to be drafted, but eagerly enlisted to go "kill the commies" turned out to be the biggest cowards once under fire. I am not saying that all of them did, or even that the percentage of cowardly enlistees was higher than the percentage of cowardly draftees, just that the fact that someone enlisted is hardly indicative of how they will perform when they actually come under fire.

Becoming a hero is rarely an intentional act. Heroes are more often made than born. Just a couple of things to think about while we are on the subject.

One final very last word on the subject. I freely admit that I was far from a hero myself, but I knew a few, and the last place you are going to find them is on this board tooting their own horn. Most of the time it will take a crowbar to pry two words out of them on the subject.

and speaking strictly for myself, I took your post the way you meant it, but felt obligated to make a couple of points about real "heroism" and to point out that simply wearing the uniform and/or talking tough doesn't make a soldier a hero.

BTW your positions on these subjects of Law and Order and the military have been pretty consistent, I doubt any one is going to get the wrong idea about you. lol

and disagree that we have evolved one iota from that "mind set", and I further disagree that eliminating the draft has helped change that mind set. IMO the opposite has happened. Rich people IOW "Senators sons" no longer have to serve, I can't think of a worse way to run a country than to have only poor people serving in our armed forces.

You of all people should be against so called "chicken hawks" getting us into wars that their sons and daughters won't have to fight. I am a complete supporter in bringing the draft back so that even "rich kids" will have to serve with the rest of us.

Somehow my "pro Vet" post, on Veterans Day of all days, got misconstrued. I thought I reframed it sufficiently and made my pro-military stance known.

some that were drafted were just 17 year old kids, certaintly not prepared to see so much death and have their phyche damaged at such a young age and then come home to be spat on, deal with agent orange for a lifetime.  I am so happy we have evolved from that mind set.  I am so proud of country for all it's challenges, victories, and self correcting.  They are our heroes today too, even if the reason they keep going back today because they are worried about their brothers.  

The Draft in the late 60's was about as fair as a KKK rally.  It could have been equally administered but the privileged always seem to have an advantage.  I will admit, when I was drafted in June '68 a good number of rich kids were at Fort Ord getting their basic.. Along with plenty of gheatto cats and vatos. Clulture clash?
Hope springs eternal and we naively thought  the war would end in 6 months or, those of us who could type and had some college, would become "Remington Raiders" (clerks).  WRONG!  Most of us went straigt into Advanced Infintry Training.  Although I was 11b, I was assigned to an aviation unit.  I never had to walk point or hump.

even if we don't agree with the war.  I wasn't talking about the evolving from the draft, but honoring our fallen and respecting service.  Especially to those Vietnam vets that had no choice.  I lived that time, and I thought for sure my uncle got his draft notice at 17 but maybe I was wrong.

but I do believe the pendulum has swung too far. Not all servicemen and women are anything close to heroes, just like not all hookers are "Goddesses" but they certainly don't deserve to be looked down on like many people look at hookers today, and many people felt about returning vets not all that long ago. I never expected a ticker tape parade when I got out, but I expected at least a little bit better than what I got.

around 90 or 91?  People stormed the street and ruined it LOL  I remember one of the pitchers wives was 9 months pregnant and got taken to an Atlanta hospital.  Smoltz?  

None of them had to die if politicians didn’t get us involved in wars we don’t have any business to be in. Since they got them killed, they have to have a way to cover up.

as for the military turning peoples lives around, there are a million stories like that, where a fucked up kid with no direction in his life finds discipline and a sense of pride by joining the Army (or Navy, Airforce, or Marines, sorry Coast Guard, but I do have my standards. lol) I am glad to hear your brother is doing good.

So now you've included  World War II as also being justified for U.S. participation.