Posted below is a long but excellent article on the current Iraq situation by Ausin Bay. Regardless of the insults and cheap rhetoric that the Bush-haters on this board may spew forth, the truth of what is currently happening cannot be denied.

Fallujah Islamo-fascists Meet The Marines
by Austin Bay
April 6, 2004

It's no Mogadishu, it's no Tet -- in fact, the ugly, baiting murders in Fallujah and Muqtada al-Sadr's made-for-Tv rebellion may be an extraordinary opportunity for the United States and Iraqi democrats, if the military operations and politics are handled with finesse.

As I write this column, elements of the U.S. First Marine Division have surrounded and entered Fallujah, Iraq, the site of last week's murder of four American civilian security agents. Compounding the crime was a Baath fascist replication, in vicious miniature, of the 1993 Mogadishu, Somalia, mutilation of the victims' corpses. It was a PR atrocity.

Within days of the massacre, al-Sadr's militiamen incited riots and shooting sprees in Baghdad and southern Iraq. Al-Sadr, a splinter-faction cleric who counts Iran as a financier and Hezbollah as a friend, is under indictment for the murder of another Shia imam. There's a warrant out for his arrest. Like a junior Al Capone, he responds to the rule of law by sending his gang into the street.

The Fallujah massacre and al-Sadr's riots are calculated, violent acts orchestrated by desperate thugs confronting imminent loss of power. An Iraqi democracy threatens the sorry lot of them, so they're taken their best shot at halting the process.

The Fallujah fascists and al-Sadr think they can defeat or at least deflect America by causing U.S. casualties, then parading the bodies before Peter Jennings and Al Jazeera. Al-Sadr adds another wrinkle: multiple "hotspots" to seed the impression of broad insurrection. It's a clever gambit, staging gunfights in Basra, Kut and Baghdad, and leverages contemporary cable Tv's appetite for 24-7 repetition and magnification. The goal is a "Tet effect," an echo of North Vietnam's 1968 offensive, which was a battlefield disaster for the North Vietnamese but a media (and hence political) victory.

However, Tet 1968 and Mogadishu 1993 are dated scripts. We're post 9-11. Even John Kerry, now scrambling for the political center, said of Fallujah, "United in sadness, we are also united in our resolve that these enemies will not prevail."

Many of us had hoped that proliferating communications technologies like backpack TV cameras and real-time Internet imagery would curb atrocities, that genocidal thugs and those who boss them would be reluctant to murder in front of a lens. I still believe the camera has had a moderating effect in some instances.

However, the Mogadishu precedent, where street battles, mob violence and combat on camera precipitated superpower withdrawal, spawned another opinion. Osama bin Laden and his ilk concluded America was spineless, a "weak horse" with little capacity for perseverance in the face of fanatic's willingness to kill. The fanaticism loomed larger and more potent if it was captured on camera.

It's now up to U.S. forces in Iraq, and available Iraqi security units, to provide a new televised precedent, an icy "city and neighborhood squeeze" documented on camera. In military terms, the U.S. and Iraqi forces will be conducting large-scale cordon and search operations (in Fallujah and in Sadr's alleys), supported by raids and limited attacks on diehard strong-points. Politically, the operation becomes a peculiar "show of force": Post 9-11, the challenge of thugs angling for "body bag" media victories will be met and trumped.

The Marines' Operation Vigilant Resolve in Fallujah appears to have this strategic goal in mind.

Iraqi security personnel are intimately involved, as interpreters and police. The uncensorable image for the cameras: New Iraq's security capability is growing.

The Marines are using loudspeakers to inform and direct the population, an uncensored message in Arabic demonstrating restrained American security techniques but insistent, focused and relentless American resolve. That's a paradox, but it's the new paradigm of the Fallujah precedent. We're not going to destroy neighborhoods, but we will eliminate resistance. The Marines are targeting specific suspects, using information gleaned from video, informants and various sensors, to include unmanned aerial vehicles.

I suspect coalition forces tackling Sadr and the Marines in Fallujah will wait out hostage situations when possible, but they will not wait forever. Such standoffs, with innocents grabbed by cornered militiamen, send another message: Baath and Islamo-fascists aren't leading popular rebellions, they are holding Iraqis hostage, to their own evil ends.

Assuming that it is true, Iraq should very shortly be stable and peaceful, and our  committed, democratic ally in the Middle East.  I cannot believe anyone is stupid enough to believe that this is the case.  Are you?

Keep the faith RLTW.  You're right on the mark.

So, are the people at ABC News writing fiction also? ABC is certainly no friend of the Bush Administration.

"April 5— Shiite Arabs in Iraq express relatively little support for attacks against coalition forces such as those that occurred Sunday. And while most do express confidence in religious leaders and call for them to play a role in Iraq today, most do not seek a theocracy, and very few see Iran as a model for Iraq.

A nationwide poll of Iraqis conducted in February for ABCNEWS also found that very few Shiites express support for Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, whose militia mounted the deadly attacks against the U.S.-led occupation. . . .

In terms of al-Sadr, a bare 1 percent of Iraqis name him as the national leader they trust most. On Iran, just 3 percent name it as a model for Iraq in the coming years, and just 4 percent say it should play a role in rebuilding Iraq."

So much for the "popular uprising" you seem to be hoping for.

RLTW

Since they're still fighting, where are you geting information?

What numbers can you provide to substantiate your assertions?

EVIDENCE?!?!?!

Or is this just your opinion..................

The sheer numbers make it clear that this is not some small band of rabble rousers who have come from elsewhere, but is derived from masses of the local community.  It is OBVIOUS to anyone with a clue what is going on, that while it may have started out as an externally generated insurrection, it has gained critical mass among the local populace.  Why?  Because they hate us and what we are doing to their country.  So much so that they are working with their former enemies in order to get rid of us.

Come on now you know the words, sign along won't you . . .

Where are the stats?

You're claiming THOUSANDS. PROVE IT?

A few thousand out of a population of HOW MANY?

That means nothing. Last time I challnged you to back up your allegations, you blew it off saying I should read your posts on the general board. TER created THIS outlet for postings.

First you said you'd never post here, then you "flip-flopped" and started posting. You were pretty vocal on the general board until GND banned you from there.

It's easy to toss out data, but you have to back it up.

You're starting to revert back to your insults, saying "It is OBVIOUS to anyone with a clue what is going on", yet you have nothing to backup your points-except your opinion.

You've consistantly insulted and denigrated the president, yet you offer no factual evidence to support your allegations. Do you have a PhD in poli-sci, or international relations? Do you have an extensive background in intelligence analysis, along with access to classified information? Have you served in the military in a career that included strategy and tactics?

Where exactly do you get your expertise and other than being an obnoxious loudmouth, why should anyone accept your opinions as factual or based on solid evidence.

We all express our opinions, that's part of why this forum exists. Yet you have consistantly belittled the administration witout offering substantiation of your claims. Were you to submit your rantings in a college course, you'd fail even the most liberal professor for failing to support your arguments with documented FACTS.

JBIRDCA,

ABC's own poll reported that OVER HALF of those polled wanted the US out of their country, read more than just the headlines like G.W. Bush does  

Furthermore, just how was this poll taken ? from what the ABC site says it was about 2500 locals that includes at least 10% of the respondents around the age 15-18 years old. Now seeing as this country is hostile and in the midst of a war, I would think those going around doing the poll might be accompanied be armed US soldiers, you don't think that could sway what was said though right ?

yeah that's what I thought too ....

- All Hail The Baloney Sandwich

Just like the bogus "tens of thousands of Iraqis" he and other anti-warriors claim where killed during the invasion. It's a bogus number that has not been verified by credible sources. Becuase it just isn't true.

The truth will come out with time. It always does. No matter how much the people who oppose the Administration scream and kick about it, removing Saddam from power was the right thing to do. And the only way to remove Saddam was through war. War is always an ugly business. Waging war requires tough men with iron will and the intestinal fortitude necessary to get the job done. Thankfully, we have a volunteer force of which most who are in Iraq and Afgahnistan understand what this war is all about. And much to the chagrin of the anti-warriors, the professional soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen respect and admire their Commander In Chief becuase they know that he and his administration will do whatever it takes to win.

So don't worry about all the shouting by the anti-warriors, we will prevail in Iraq and in the larger scope of the war on terror. It will be ugly, brutal, and people will die - no doubt about it. The warriors who are fighting and dying know and accept this because they understand what it is all about.

One more thing. Before any of you anti-warriors try to chastise me for having the gall to assume I know how those soldiers feel; I've been in combat, and know all too well what it's like.

RLTW

Oh, and BTW, the estimate our own government has made is that 30,000 Iraqis have been killed in the fighting so far.  I do believe that qualifies as tens of thousands.

AP reported:  "The director of the main hospital in Fallujah said 460 Iraqis had been killed and 1,000 wounded in the city this week."

So, the Iraqi CASUALTIES alone in the Fallujah uprising are 1460 people.  I would contend that is all that one needs to know to deduce that there were SEVERAL THOUSAND Iraqis were involved in the fighting.  I realize that this involves a bit of deductive reasoning that might be beyond some folks, but if you dispute this, let me ask you, how many Iraqis do YOU think were involved?

The breakdown even further is:

0-14 years: 40.7% (male 5,103,669; female 4,946,443)
15-64 years: 56.3% (male 7,033,268; female 6,855,644)
65 years and over: 3% (male 348,790; female 395,499) (2003 est.)

That's IRAQI's. It's been documented that there are also Nnon-Iraqi fighters in the mix.

Of course "I realize that this involves a bit of deductive reasoning that might be beyond some folks" as in YOU, but I would guess that perhaps the slanted news about how terrible it is and how much we're hated might be slightly misleading, since only "SEVERAL THOUSAND Iraqis were involved in the fighting" perhaps it's not all you assert.

And, in response to your diatribe, you aren't my librarioan because you lack the capacity to apply critical thinking to your argument.

Based upon your repeated insults and dodging the issues in favor of pointless attacks, I suggest thatperhaps YOU should stop listening to the O'Franken factor and Michael Moore's, and do more investigative research about your mysterious sources.

By your way of thinking, if the U.S. has 290 Million people, and 125,000 are fighting the Iraq war, it must be an incredibly unpopular adventure.

The fact is - and certainly, anyone who is actually well informed should know this by now (sources include the A.P. and the New York Times, BTW)  that the uprising was STARTED by 300-400 outsiders who were supporters of the Cleric Sadr.  Then SEVERAL THOUSAND (best estimates I've seen were around 4000) local shiite and sunni joined the rebellion in Fallujah.  And very few of the locals actively worked to oppose this rebellion - possibly because they didn't oppose it, possibly just out of fear for their safety.  But, certainly several thousand locals agreed in principle with the rebellion enough to join it at GREAT risk to their own safety (and with nearly 1500 casualties, inflicted by our far better armed soldiers) that risk was certainly quite high.  This obviously means that ALOT (I never said a majority, just a SIGNIFICANT number) of the locals hate our presence there enough to risk life and limb to oppose it.  If you are offended by that position, too bad.  If you doubt the underlying numbers which I used to draw that conclusion, I suggest that you are simply uninformed, and you should GET informed.