We've gone from semi-privatizing of social security, a very good idea, to this.

"Tax the rich, feed the poor. Until there are rich no more." Even in the sixties they realized that there would still be poor people even if they taxed the rich into oblivion.

I doesn't look like Obama and co have learned anything since then.

Hoorah for the commie, Osama Hussein Obama Bareback. Damn'd, he sure has vote buying ideas. Pretty easy to sell this shit to the one half of the voters who pay nothing for taxes and, instead, get money from the government in exchange for their vote. How about, every son of a bitch that has the ability to contribute to society pay a minimum tax, at least a pittance, to help out the "common good."?

Sounds like a line from a Ten Years After song.  Boy that Alvin Lee could play guitar!

Obama is the most dangerous threat to this country since the Soviets developed nuclear weapons!

Oh and by the way I appreciate you posting under your TER handle as opposed to an alias like some of these chicken shits!

You should be preaching to the evangelical churches - that's where you get your votes.

Payroll social security taxes are of course one of the primary regressive mechanisms of taxation.  Small wonder you'd fight the same percentages applying across the board.

Yes, social security pension benefits are socialistic.  So are roads, so is private insurance, bankruptcy, so is military service, so is paying to get laid or every other transaction.  But of course a person does not accumulate property by paying it out.  It might be smart of you to recognize when socialism benefits you, and stop whining about every goddamned $5 bill, for the sake of your credibility.     After a while, people just get tired of you whining about contributing.

The Godfather understands the benefit of spreading around the shares.  The Whiners just undercut their own position.

liberal/socialist statement

Obama also criticized McCain for being open to letting taxpayers invest part of their Social Security payments in private investment accounts.

"Imagine if your security now was tied up with the Dow Jones," he said, alluding to the recent slide in stock prices. "You wouldn't feel very confident about the security of your nest egg."

I really fucking despise the arrogance of the left. So Obama takes a recent snapshot of the market without looking at the indexes for the past 10-20-30-40-50 years. It's the whole concept of the individual vs the collective.

not individuals.  Am I mistaken?

So your complaint is that you'd rather eliminate social security?  So that you don't have to face the expense of retired workers?

You'd probably be better off talking in terms of economics rather than ideology or even legal principle.

Of course privatizing social security is churning retirement accounts. Of course it benefits brokers and full-time investors at the expense of the independent small-time operator whose work is farming or trucking or something else.  What is your problem with just saying so?

we recycle EVERYTHING, and we turn those old folks around in NINETY DAYS!!

When Grammy gets too old to watch the brats, and they start breaking things, time to get a new babysitter!  Drop Grammy off with me, and you'll have your inheritance next quarter!

For a business owner this represents an additional 15.3% tax on every fucking nickel he makes. I already pay more than my share, but you libbies are never satified. 35 percent Federal, 15.3 percent payroll, 5 per cent state. Plus you fuckers want to increase the 35 percent rate I already pay.

Altho I would prefer a totally privatized system, I realize it just won't happen. We are in too deep. Though I am  for some percentage to be controlled and invested by the individual.

Obama mentions Dow Jones. Individuals would have the choice of investing in stocks, bonds, or even conservative money market accounts. Liberals all paint the bad news "the market is unpredictable , you can lose money, etc. Let the individual determine their own fate.

What I keep telling my kids is that the days of either govt or company sponsored retirement is over.  Hence getting them to think about retirement following college is imperative.

I honestly think liberals believe that most individuals can't make intelligent decisions, and govt needs to help manage their life.

The lefties think that we can't make our own financial decisions, and in all fairness the righties think we can't make our own moral decisions.

That's why I hate the left for making me choose between my conscience and my wallet. I know none of you lefties and very few of you righties will believe me, but I really hate voting for Republicans. You fucking assholes give me no choice.

bastards would rather have the government steal it from you and I than work for it themselves. Always quick to banty about an example or two of "socialism" as justification for communism. Hell, if two aspirin will make your aches feel better just take the whole damn'd bottle and you will be permanently recovered. Somehow these pathetic parasites feel that having their minions in government rob the bank makes them morally superior to the common, independent thief, but they are not. Actually they are just a bunch of libbie-pink lazy cowards.

what rate do you think social security payroll taxes hit the worker with?

What a legislator has to decide is how much is an incentive, and how much is predation.

Depending on which end of the stick you're on, you can argue every nickel either way.

I'm just sayin that we're hearing one hell of a lot of whining from people who have the time & money to whine, but they don't seem to have the sense to see what this does to the credibility of their point.


What IS your share of a road, or fire protection, of whatever else we agree on?   Whatever it is, you're ALWAYS sure it's WAY TOO MUCH.

WAHWAHWAH.   So we know you want to undo social security.  Why don't you just say you're too fucking cheap to allow grammy a dignified death?  There's something to be said for that, you know.  It's all a matter of priorities.

So in other words, those making $250K or more, in essence people who will never need SS, should be paying more into a system they will quite likely never avail themselves of. Am I getting it right? Obama wants us to take another giant step toward pure unadulterated socialism?

If I've missed a salient point here, please advise.

and investing privately in securities has got to be one of the riskiest things a non-professional can do.

Investing in their home or business is a better risk. The idea that a person has time to be a decent machinist and invest privately and profitably is simply statistically untrue.    

So of course, you're telling the bottom quartile that they are fucked.  As Harry would say, pinko parasites.   If life hands you a turd, you just gotta munch it.

Of course that's true.  But you're fucking insane if you think they're going to vote for you, instead of picking up pitchforks and coming after you.

The churches traditionally deal with those.   "The poor will always be with us."  Well, not if they get away with robbing your bank, hunh?

You don't want to put people in the position that they realize they have nothing to lose.  It's fucking dangerous.

promise to continue Bush's policies.

What exactly do you like about Bush's policies?  

Do you think he's had a good presidency?

Because I think what he's done here is drive our Titanic into a fucking ice field, and we need some ace navigators & damage controlmen, NOW!

Frankly, I don't think a politician can do it.  But I think the American people can do it, if somebody like W. Clinton were to come along and leave us the fuck alone.  I think that TER, of all organizations, should organize a hobby panel for him, and get him BACK IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

Of course there would have to be a little constitutional amendment, and Ken Starr would have to do a television series that involved weekly apologies for every aspect of his life, and we DEFINITELY need a divorce - we can't have a president with a consort like Hillary!   We need to find some wop or better yet a Frogette, so we know that the French are getting fucked every night in the White House.

IN FACT, I will PERSONALLY volunteer to organize a French exchange visitor program to recruit, shave, shower and service French babes in every part of the US of A!

Never let it be said that I will not sacrifice for my country!  My only regret is that I have but one dick to give for my country!

for, you lazy assed freeloading yellow-bellied whining ass parasite freeloader!

Show me ONE GODDAMNED THING you've made!  Aside from massive clouds of halitosis and flatulence!

What right wingers need to understand is that the environment can change, and their rules may not always protect them.   People who are wonderful bankers and day traders shouldn't be so smug about the social superiority of their skills, because it's very easy for them to fuck themselves, and using a pitchfork could easily become the decisive skill.

I do wish we could scrap the entire Social Security program, along with the IRS as we know it. Of course that is not a viable option at this time.

Social Security is supposed to be insurance, a safety net for those that did not provide for themselves. That concept I can live with. What is unacceptable is for the government to just take 15.3 percent of everypenny earned in the name of "insurance".

Social Security like most government programs it is forced on us. We don't have the opportuinity to opt out. where the fuck does the government get off stealing 15.3% of every fucking dime I ever make in the name of "I am too stupid to take care of myself". No wonder democrats are so fucking stupid.

I am going to put at least $500,000 dollars into the system if Obama and the dems don't inact their plan, if they do succeedI I and many like me will end up putting in millions of dollars over our lifetimes, The max benefit I am entitled to is $1,917 a month. What kind of fucking insurance is that. If I just put the money into a passbook saving account I'd do better than that. If you dems just want to steal my money, why don't YOU just say so?

indeed, life and death are forced on you.  I can find people with PhDs that you guys will love honor and obey, who will swear that their is no such thing as volition, or alternatively that it is a legal judgment.

So what if a voter isn't into your conception of liberty, maybe because they are just farmers or truckers who actually do things, and are a little tired of financial brokers making tons of money by creating an accounting system that leaves them twisting in the wind?

What if some fellow's idea of "Live Free or Die" means running politicians and bankers out of the county, at the point of a pitchfork?

See you're objecting to politicians, and I'm pointing out that financial markets would be nowhere without them, so I'm suspecting that you may have to take the good with the bad, and not focus on the last nickel on the table.

truly candid, because it goes against their populist message. So after I read your post on your max benefit, I pulled out my yearly Social Security statement, and compared it against my wife's.

I have basically been contributing the max for the past 30 years, and can expect a payment at the age of 66 of $2203 per month. My wife works part time and has consistently contributed approx 1/5 of what I contribute over the same time frame. We are the same age. At 66, she will receive a little more than $1200 a month. So I pay 5x of taxes compared to my wife, and she collects 60% of what I will collect. Am I missing something?

Unfortunately the rationale is it's our job to finance the retirement of others who can't or won't. I would at least respect the Dems more if they were honest with the reasons for the proposed tax increases vs the ongoing rhetoric of the rich needs to pay their fair share. The top 1% already pay 40% of all taxes. The top 10% pay more than 70% of all taxes. And the top 50% pay 97% of all federal taxes.

What's the line from the movie Animal House? Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life. Unfortunately most Americans are definitely fat and stupid, and the Dems feel it's our responsibility to take care of them.

would be better off if they were given the option to manage their own money instead of voting awy their rights and mine to Father Government to take care of them.

Just like a lawyer to suggest that others don't actually do things. I actually contribute to the good of this country. Do You?

15.3 percent of everything I will ever make in my entire lifetime is far from focusing on the last nickel on the table. You are awfully eager to give my money away. You sound a lot like someone who is a net taker from the system not like someone who actually pays his fair share.

and the only way to take care of the fat and stupid is to steal the money of those that aren't.

I already am forced to give the government almost half of everything I make. Another 15.3 percent of everything I make to fix a broken system that will never give you or me a fraction of what we put into is quite likely the straw that breaks the camel's back.

can't/won't buyers in your economy.

Your political position comes to little more than contempt for those who don't rack up your numbers.  You shouldn't be surprised when they return the favor.

I've been broke, I've had years of barely getting by, and I've had some good times. The one thing that hasn't changed was my attitude towards parasitic, lazy, losers that don't even put forth an effort to better themselves and find it easier to live off the efforts of others.

How else could anybody mindlessly support failed policies because they might save you a few bucks over the next quarter?!

and unloved.

Mostly so he will SHUT THE FUCK UP about his accountant, and let us watch the game!

Why is it that you feel it neccessary to respond two posts to one.

You aren't spotting shit, you probably are one of those scum sucking parasites I've been talking about.

I'm gonna go to Mexico where they don't worry about paying taxes! And I'm gonna stiff the waiters, too!!  WAHWAHWAH!!!!!

I'm sure this doesn't concern you because you are one of the parasites living off the rest of our efforts to begin with.

Please go to Mexico and stay there, but please tip the waiters.

and meds for the incoherent.  Sign up now, they're going fast!!!!!!!!

Jesus understands that I can't help anybody if I don't help myself.

I think you nailed it.

I wish they would quit calling it insurance and just call it what it really is. It's not Social Security, just plain old Socialism.