What you forget about the average white working to middle class American is that most of these people have been adversely affected by Affirmative Action and quota hiring.  These same people have been hit the hardest by uncontrolled illegal immigration.  They perceive the Democrats as being pro Affirmative Action and pro illegal immigration. I know many Democrats who believe Affirmative Action has gone too far and they believe illegal immigration is out of control.  It is not the reality that counts, it’s the perception of what is real that counts.  The Republicans do a better job of blaming these two issues on the Democrats and enough people believe it to vote Republican.  Other issues are not as important to most voters regardless of how important they are to the country.  Energy dependence is not important until we have an energy crisis.  The war in Iraq is not a real issue until a loved one dies there.  Global warming is a non issue until it becomes a real time crisis.  Both parties have lost touch with the American people, but the Republicans do a better job of conning the voters.

"What you forget about the average white working to middle class American is that most of these people have been adversely affected by Affirmative Action and quota hiring" That is pure BS a small minority of whites can say this. The old boy network plays a bigger role in who gets promoted, who gets hired, etc. Nepotism, cronyism are still alive and well in the workplace. What is wrong with a diverse workplace where everyone is qualified? It sounds like some people who never had to compete with minoritys are having a problem now that they have to.

And demographically, they are also in decline.

That, and other demographic trends bode badly for Republicans right now.

But let us not get complacent - democrats are known for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I agree that these are the issues that get votes. I disagree that those who associate the left with Affirmative action and illegal immigration are operating under some kind of misconception.

People think that way because that's exactly what the Democratic leadership supports. If you doubt me, name a Democratic andidate that doesn't support Affirmative Action. The list is awfully short.

I am not saying what these people believe is what is really occurring.  It is what they perceive that counts.  A good example was the same sex marriage issue in the last election. A state court in New England ruled that the state cannot prohibit marriage between two people of the same sex.  Bush and Kerry had essentially the same position on the subject.  They both said they did not believe in same sex marriage but did believe in civil unions between people of the same sex.  The Republicans saw an opportunity and jumped on it.  They proposed a Constitutional Amendment banning same sex marriage.  Anyone who didn’t sleep through eight grade civics class knew that amending the Constitution was a very difficult thing to do.  The last time the Constitution was amended was in the 1960’s when it gave 18 year olds the right to vote.  Even the ERA, which had tremendous support, could not get enough states to ratify the amendment.  However, enough voters were so afraid of same sex marriage that they bought into the Constitutional amendment scam and went to the polls.  Of course, the issue suddenly died after the election.  

There are fewer registered Republicans than there are registered Democrats.  However, more registered Republican vote than Democrats which makes it almost even.  Most voters vote their party so the key to winning an election is to get the independent/crossover vote and/or energize the voters of the candidate’s party.   Carl Rove realized if he concentrated on getting Republicans to the polls then the Republicans would win the election.  I forget the numbers but if only something like 75% of the voters of either party voted for their party then that would be enough to win the election regardless of the independent/crossovers.

As ridiculous as the same sex issue was, especially in light of the real issues facing our country, it was enough to get those apathetic voters to the polls.   The key is to scare your voters into voting against the other candidate; that is why negative campaigns work so well.  Republicans tend to give simple answers to complex questions and Democrats tend to give complex answers to simple questions.  In a world of 20 -30 second sound bites, who do you think will fare better?  The debates are so low in the ratings compared to reality shows that the networks would like to drop them.  Like it or not that is the reality of winning elections.

The same sex marrriage issue was the difference in the last election. I really had no idea how many people really give a fuck about same sex marriage. I personally could not possibly care any less about whether gays can get married. Actually it would serve the little cocksuckers right if they had to start making alimony payments, but I digress.

You are absolutely right, George W Bush was elected becasuse of the Gay marriage issue. Only in America. I can only wonder what the key issue in 2008 will be.

issues as to be totally irrelevant. Even on something as basic as securing the borders both parties have failed.  Even on basic issues of protecting our future, (financially, politically and socially) both parties have failed.  

Sad to say, issues that are important do not have simple solutions and are so driven by special interest groups, that I fear we may never be able to course correct.  and that will be our undoing....

Want an example?  look at Iraq.  Clearly we are there for reasons other than the ones enumerated long ago.  We made the point already.  Fuck with us and we can beat you militarily - that is over... what we cannot do is change a centuries old culture in the time it takes for the american public to loose its attention...  just ain't gonna happen - and we should be able to recognize that.

Iran... we are so over committed that if they did do anything - I seriously doubt that we could respond... or if we did, where would the troops come from ??  South Korea?  don't think so... Iraq - not with GW in office... and suppose that after we leave - it is TURKEY and not Iran who invades Iraq - what then.

We are so fucked.  Global warming is a myth.... what is NOT a myth is our energy dependance on oil - and we had better solve that problem - yesterday.

So i agree with you... all that frickin energy in blame... when I want a plan going forward that is not the same ole same ole.

A Democratic leader would lose his election if he didn't support it. Yes, that's the leadership dictating to the followers, all right.

I don't like affirmative action, and I will admit that the plan is very flawed. Yet, I don't think the Republic could function well without it. Is there a better plan for redressing the effect of racism in this society? I don't buy the the notion that none exists and it doesn't have a terrible effect on minorities: especially African Americans.

I wish we'd stumble on something better.

How people who have never experienced racism claim to be experts on the subject.

Just for your information, I am a member of a minority and I have been subjected to overt racism in my life. Take it from one who knows, affirmitive action does more harm than good. it was a good idea in its time, buts it's time has come and gone. People, black, white, and green need to stand on their own two feet. Affirmative action IS racism, even worse, it's state sponsored racism

There has to be a way. I am open to other ideas, but frankly, I think the problem is bad enough that it we can't do nothing. Right now I just thought that perhaps instead of awarding a low-quality diploma or degree, it would probably be better to have some kind of an "audit" program for minorities. Let them sit in on classes to catch up from poorer schools.

What makes you think my experience is THAT isolated?

Have you ever been on the recieving end of racism? Or more specifically, have you ever been denied a job because of you race? I have, I doubt you can say the same.

Ok, In the past you have alluded to the fact that you are not particularly wellheeled financially. Do you think racism had/has anything to with that?

To explain, I was forced out of a job I was promoted into because "I didn't fit." I was the only white guy in the department. The head of the department was a black female. It wasn't overtly racial, but I feel  there was some payback involved there. I strove really hard in that job and was given no positive recognition for any of it. That I didn't give up trying to impress for a long time finally put me in danger. I'm lucky I got to go back to my previous department.

BTW, I was warned by another guy who had taken the promotion and transfered back that I was wasting my time. I have to say, I didn't believe him. Boy was I wrong.

Racism is racism. I don't care what Jesse  Jackson says. Is racism any better when it's state sponsored? Until we stop trying to tip the scales back and forth, there never will be a truly level playing field.

I actually considered myself a Republican when I was in college in the early 1990's...But when the religous right leaders started making sure Republican politicans talk non-stop about overturing Roe V. Wade, the ills of pornography, how Hollywood is affecting youth, blah, blah, blah & I couldn't stomach any more...I absolutely HATE the religious right, they have totally highjacked that party....

Oh, & btw conservatives, we all know what "strict constructionists" w/regards to judicial philosophy really means....It's a code word for judges who share ultra-far right views...

Democrats are far from perfect, but at least they don't take barking orders from religious right sociopaths.....

They are totally free from the dictates and attachments of any group.

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are so much in love with their own insanity that they lose voters to the party whose platform is perversion.

You gotta be pretty far out to lose that choice.

levels of stupid that it is making me dizzy.

I can't equate affirmative action with racism. The Klan in the South, for example, wasn't bad because it tried to better the fortunes of white people. No, that wasn't the issue. It was bad because it tried to crush black people and keep them separate and downtrodden. One race was attacking and terrorizing the other.

Also, the Nazi's weren't terrible because they tried improve Germans. No, it's that improvement entailed the extermination of other races.

It's conservatives who one person's gain is not another's loss. They seem to forget that when the subject turns to AA. Then, suddenly, it is a zero-sum game.

Yes, Affirmative Action debases accomplishments of minority members. It creates envy. That's all bad, but that isn't racist. In education at least, there has to be a way of equalizing things which isn't so heavy handed. What it must address is 1) inequality in education; 2)