Turns out they're in favor of a different kind of conservatism. Authoritarian conservatism...which is one in the same with Mussolinian fascism.
You feel the same way ?
In re to politics these days, my cynicism is even getting higher, quite a feat, since I'm very cynical to begin with.
For those in the know, seriously thinking about changing my P& R board handle to "Diogenes".
I trust none of those hypocrites. They all lie. We vote them in on a promise and they get in office to do the opposite. Now they are calling Obama a liar, fighting him tooth and nail, complaining and so on. WHAT? Right, left, back, front and side ways all liars and we are their flunkies. Impeached Clinton for getting his dick sucked now they want to impeach Obama. I say impeach all of them. They complain about Obama like the next President won't lie also. When they tell the truth I'm going to eat shit. Since I won't eat it I'm sure they won't be telling the truth anytime soon.
Sorry buddy, you have no credibility already...
Add to that your souces are the likes of Maddow, your posts become a punchline...
& WHY the caps on your subject heading ? Angry ?!----LMFAO!! With all the $ you supposedly have, don't you have BETTER things to do than question WW's veracity on a discussion board ?!
Tell ya what , Snow, why don't you fill the board in on your massive "riches"?!-----------
-- Modified on 3/30/2011 1:51:30 PM
He has none, he has been caught posting half truths and outright lies on numerous occasions.
but I do have better things to do myself, like eating the mess of fish we caught this morning, caught a Mahi Mahi, Spanish mackeral, a barracuda and a whole slew of spapper. Damn, it's a tough life down here in the Bahamas, but someone has to do it. lol
but I do have better things to do myself, like eating the mess of fish we caught this morning, caught a Mahi Mahi, Spanish mackeral, a barracuda and a whole slew of spapper. Damn, it's a tough life down here in the Bahamas, but someone has to do it. lol
and I told you that you've been spending too much time with Priapus
the Plymouths. They're great eating, but ya gotta clean them properly to get those pesky glands out of them.
He was a bit too big, and as you know they are rather toxic once they get to a certain size.
Oh, poor Priaap...
You claim others do not post valid arguments, and yet you can not discredit them....
Oh, Poor Priapap....
So mad at the world, unable to achieve so he must lash out at others...
Oh, Poor Priap.....
Still thinking he is making a difference, when he can't even better his own life...
Oh, Poor Priap....
Boy of little credibility, Boy of low self-esteem, Boy of shatted dreams and wanna be
Oh, Poor Priap...
-- Modified on 3/31/2011 7:16:02 AM
& you STILL haven't answered my q: IF you have SO much $, For God's sake WHY continually & SO angrily rebut Willy on a multitude of issues?! ( particulalary unions )
I have an excellent BS meter; I believe GAG when he sez he makes the big $ ( & expect to collect my bet from him---LOL ) He spars with Willy for the "entertainment" of it. OTOH, Snow, I have you pegged as a baldfaced liar------
otherwise he'd have crawled back up F_U's ass by now. Gawd, the clown even still believes this is your alias. He is a lost cause.
Isn't that kind of a circle jerk ????
LMFAO!!!!!
Re circle jerks, you and F_U would be the expert on that! Now go clean his jizz off your chin!
ever noticed those who shout loudest about homosexuals are actually the ones deepest in the closet...
You can come out, it's ok...
making more than Willy in a year than he makes in a lifetime as a gubberment parasite still doesn't qualify as "the big $" lol
It's kind of like saying that you are a lot smarter than AF, you could be a complete fucking moron and still be smarter than that dumb fuck. lmao
but I'm fairly sure you've copped to making well into the six figures. Perhaps you don't consider that "the big $."
I don't consider anything short of an eight digit net worth, or a mid seven digit income anywhere near "the big $" lol
I will come off my earlier statement that $200k a month is still "working class" I still mantain that a six digit income is still "working class" unless it accompanies a hefty net worth. IOW A guy worth ten million bucks, everythig in life paid for and who cash flows $500k a year in retirement can proudly claim to have "made it" lol
OTOH the lawyer or stock broker who lives in NYC and pays all the obligatory overhead to live in the city, trying to climb the ladder who makes that same $500k a year is a long ways from having "made it", a single year without income, or in many cases, just a few months could see that person wondering if he will be put out on the street.
I have no idea what standards are used to define "Left", "Right", "Authoritarian", and "Libertarian" on that chart. Both "Left" and "Right" as they are understood in today's politics include some measure of authoritarianism on some issues, and freedom in others.
The Nolan Chart is a better way to chart people's political stance. It is also two dimensional, but has more objective standards. The bottom right axis scores economic freedom, while the bottom right axis scores personal freedom. These are scored according to answers to 10 quick and easy questions. The results are pretty objective.
I have no idea how objective your chart is. Looks more like the typical "gotcha" nonsense perpetrated by liberals and progressives when they are confronted by arguments they cannot answer.
I couldn't find an image of a Nolan chart with Sarah Palin, but it has John McCain, who Tea Party members KNOW is not their friend. He voted for the trillions of dollars of stimulus, which is probably why he lost the election. His position on the Nolan chart is no surprise to me.
...can be found at http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Take the test yourself and see where you end up. Compared to that libertarian trash test, it's wonderful. Imagine someone giving out a test where one of the "results" is a political epithet. Can we say "bias"? How would the test results differ between an anarcho-capitalist and a libertarian socialist? How would it differ between a fascist, paleo-conservative, and a populist? It's crap like this that assumes that the state is the state is the state, regardless of whether you live under a participatory democracy, a republic, or a third world junta. It's retarded...Sarah Palin retarded.
The very first question in your quiz is loaded.
"If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations."
This question presupposes answers to or brings up a number of other questions:
That there is a dichotomy between the interests of humanity and these corporations that do the trading.
That there is a way to make trade serve humanity instead of the corporations.
Do trade restrictions actually help create powerful monopolistic corporations or does free trade?
Will regulation of trade make globalization serve humanity better?
Who will do the regulating?
What is "the good of humanity"? (Huge philosophical question)
Who decides what is good? (consequence of the previous answer)
How about the question "There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."?
That's another loaded question. Seems to be aimed directly at Glen Beck, a particular person in the media, instead of political principles.
Page 2: "People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality."
This question just asks me to choose my flavor of collectivism. I reject both entirely.
By "divided", does it mean do other people see themselves as fundamentally belonging to these different groups, or do I see the division into such groups as important?
A political quiz with such heavily loaded questions is not objective. I was unable to complete it.
What political epithet?
My cultist friend, I didn't say the test was perfect. I just said it was the best on the net. Every question is loaded with these sort of tests.
But compared to the Nolan test...wow.
Here are a few of the questions in the economic section of that test.
"Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more."
"Replace government welfare with private charity."
and my favorite
"Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security."
Notice that these aren't questions, but statements? Notice that it presupposes that if we have social security people don't control their own retirement? Why not ask, "Should Social Security be privatized?"
How about, "Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more." What if you want spending increased, and taxes to go down? What if you want spending to go down and taxes to go up? No, with this test you either buy cultist indoctrination, or you're labeled the epithet "statist".
This test places me as a moderate liberal leaning slightly statist. Now, would anyone on this board say that I'm moderate? Hell, I don't say that I'm a moderate.
How accurate can a 10 question test with loaded questions be in gaging someone's political disposition? You tell me, my cultist friend.
The one might be guilty of being a bit simplistic, but it categorized my correctly as libertarian, even though I think a lot of libertarians suffer from "whack job" mentality, they are most probably the closest to representing my political attitude.
Willy's test was complete bullshit, and like WBFE, I was unable to complete it, I barely made it through the first page and found the second page so insulting that I gave up on the test.
It is absolutely no surprise that Willy considers it the "best test on the net", the very premise of many of the questions sound like they were written by someone just like him. My answer to most of the questions require a fifth option, "I don't fucking know, and WTF are you talking about anyhow?" That's exactly how I would answer many of the questions if someone were to ask me in something other than a multiple choice format.
Way too simplistic to be considered a valid response! I had a lot of those!
...but like I said, this is the best test of it's kind that I have ever found on the net. If someone can find a better one, I'd love to see it. By the way...here are my test results.
Good proof that the test is bullshit. Someone who believes that employers should be forced to negotiate with unions and that workers should be pressured, almost forced to join unions is not scored as being at all authoritarian? That's a laugh!
Unions are democratic organizations. Corporations are hierarchical and authoritarian organizations.
The first is true if they are voluntary, which many of ours today are not. In many professions, in many companies, you MUST join a union. That is authority.
The second is a conclusion based on your particular political bias. If a corporation is founded on private property, it is no more "authoritarian" than you deciding who can borrow your car. Are you being authoritarian if you don't let me borrow your car? Or impose conditions on my borrowing it?
"In many professions...you MUST join a union."
In the United States? Name one.
"If a corporation is founded on private property, it is no more "authoritarian" than you deciding who can borrow your car. Are you being authoritarian if you don't let me borrow your car? Or impose conditions on my borrowing it?"
Are you really comparing the ownership of a car with the ownership of a corporation? Well, it looks like I'm going to be giving my insurance company a call and tell them I will no longer be needing their services. My car now has limited liability.
In the United States? Name one.
According to a new report by the Capital Research Center, states that have adopted right-to-work laws have enjoyed superior rates of business productivity, state-level economic growth and job-creation over the past two decades. The reports also showed:
* Depending on the percent of workers unionized, unionization reduced the value added per hour of labor by as much as 6.5 percent.
* Between 1981 and 2001, the economy of the average right-to-work state expanded by 236 percent, while that of the average non-right-to-work state grew by 221 percent.
* Over the last twenty years, the average right-to-work state increased employment by 62 percent, as compared to 42 percent for non-right-to-work states.
Perhaps most importantly, there has been little difference in pay between right-to-work states and their counterparts once one accounts for the cost of living of living. In 2002, per capita disposable income averaged $27,476 for workers in non-right-to-work states, as compared to $24,335 in right-to-work states -- a disparity of about 11.4 percent. However, according to the American Federation of Teachers (AFT), the cost of living in the average right-to-work state is 11 percent lower than in non-right-to-work states.
Source: Paul Kersey, "The Economic Case for Right-to-Work Laws," Capital Research Center, January 2004.
The test is still one of the very worst I have ever seen, but it seems to fit you just fine.
Willy: The basic standards of the test are: government control or individual freedom. That is what the two axis of the graph represent. One axis is economic freedom, the other is personal freedom. Reducing taxes and spending both represent more economic freedom. Separating them into two different questions might make the test more sensitive, give it higher definition, but keeping them together do not make the test less objective.
"Notice that these aren't questions, but statements?"
Anybody can see this is stupid quibbling. The question the test asks is how well do you agree or disagree with the statements.
You think the term "statist" is an epithet? It is a technical term with specific meaning.
From The Free Online Dictionary:
n
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the theory or practice of concentrating economic and political power in the state, resulting in a weak position for the individual or community with respect to the government.
Yes, libertarians do argue that statism is a bad thing. But the test does not assume that. It simply asks your position on issues and judges how statist you are based on your answers.
Your repeated references to me as a cultist simply displays your own bias. You are unaware of your own biases if you think the Nolan questions are more loaded than the ones in the Political Compass ones.
None of the questions in the Nolan test refer to a specific person.
"There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."
The heading of the web page for the Glenn Beck show is "The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightenment".
This shows that the authors of the test are gunning for a specific target.
"Willy: The basic standards of the test are: government control or individual freedom."
Again, this assumes that government activity is the anthesis of freedom. You could make that case in a dictatorship, but it's rediculous to make it in representative or democratic state.
"One axis is economic freedom, the other is personal freedom. Reducing taxes and spending both represent more economic freedom."
It does? So if I voluntarily decide to pool my money with my neighbors to get a road built that will benefit us all, then I am not free? And barring me from that ability increases my freedom?
"You think the term "statist" is an epithet?"
Yes, the way you cultists use the term, it is an epithet. The term "liberal" has a specific meaning too, but the way it is used in American political discourse is an epithet too.
"Your labeling this concept as an epithet sounds to me like an admission from you that giving government power over individual lives is a bad thing."
It's only bad if it is against the Will of the People.
"...But the test does not assume that....You are unaware of your own biases if you think the Nolan questions are more loaded than the ones in the Political Compass ones."
Oh, I'm well aware of my bias, hell I wear it on my sleeve, and that should be clear to you by now. And I'm not suggesting the political compass test is free from bias, but it is by far a superior test.
"There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."
My cultist friend, this isn't the first time I've brought up this website on this board. I first came across this test around 2004 when Glenn Beck hadn't even gotten started yet on Headline News. Linking entertainment with news has been something liberals have been concerned about ever since Ben Bagdikian first published The Media Monopoly back in 1983. It's a good question to ask on such a test to indicate that someone is a progressive, or if they think the "free market" should dictate the news.
OMFG! A post that clearly demonstrates the insanity some people bring to their understanding of free market ideas.
Again, this assumes that government activity is the anthesis of freedom. You could make that case in a dictatorship, but it's rediculous to make it in representative or democratic state.
"One axis is economic freedom, the other is personal freedom. Reducing taxes and spending both represent more economic freedom."
It does? So if I voluntarily decide to pool my money with my neighbors to get a road built that will benefit us all, then I am not free? And barring me from that ability increases my freedom?
"You think the term "statist" is an epithet?"
Yes, the way you cultists use the term, it is an epithet. The term "liberal" has a specific meaning too, but the way it is used in American political discourse is an epithet too.
"Your labeling this concept as an epithet sounds to me like an admission from you that giving government power over individual lives is a bad thing."
It's only bad if it is against the Will of the People.
"...But the test does not assume that....You are unaware of your own biases if you think the Nolan questions are more loaded than the ones in the Political Compass ones."
Oh, I'm well aware of my bias, hell I wear it on my sleeve, and that should be clear to you by now. And I'm not suggesting the political compass test is free from bias, but it is by far a superior test.
"There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."
My cultist friend, this isn't the first time I've brought up this website on this board. I first came across this test around 2004 when Glenn Beck hadn't even gotten started yet on Headline News. Linking entertainment with news has been something liberals have been concerned about ever since Ben Bagdikian first published The Media Monopoly back in 1983. It's a good question to ask on such a test to indicate that someone is a progressive, or if they think the "free market" should dictate the news.
Maybe I was unaware of this. I had never heard of this "Media Monopoly" by Ben Bagdikian, so I had absolutely no clue what the expression "fusion of information and entertainment" meant in this context. This is another strike against the test. So, maybe its not specifically attacking Beck. But it assumes people taking the test know things that they may have no clue about. I am guessing this article, book, or whatever publication is well known only among progressives.
But compared to the Nolan test...wow.
Here are a few of the questions in the economic section of that test.
"Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more."
"Replace government welfare with private charity."
and my favorite
"Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security."
Notice that these aren't questions, but statements? Notice that it presupposes that if we have social security people don't control their own retirement? Why not ask, "Should Social Security be privatized?"
How about, "Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more." What if you want spending increased, and taxes to go down? What if you want spending to go down and taxes to go up? No, with this test you either buy cultist indoctrination, or you're labeled the epithet "statist".
This test places me as a moderate liberal leaning slightly statist. Now, would anyone on this board say that I'm moderate? Hell, I don't say that I'm a moderate.
How accurate can a 10 question test with loaded questions be in gaging someone's political disposition? You tell me, my cultist friend.
A loaded question is one that requires the person answering to agree to unstated assumptions. The classic example is "Have you quit beating your wife?" Whether you answer yes or no, you are admitting that you have beaten your wife in the past.
None of the Nolan chart questions require you to agree to anything in order to give a proper answer.
For instance, the very first question assumes that there is a conflict of interest between corporations and "humanity". Nobody who believes in free markets could answer "agree" or "disagree" to that. To those who see no such conflict of interest, either answer is completely meaningless.
More evidence of the insane level of bias of those who created the "Political Compass" test:
In the FAQ, they try to defend the first question against those who argue against the conflict of interest.
This one sometimes ruffles feathers on right wings. What the proposition actually suggests is that humanity should be the priority.
Critics argue that there's no conflict of interest. Transnational corporations naturally and unfailingly serve humanity by serving themselves. In enriching business, the argument goes, globalisation will always subsequently benefit humanity. Prioritising humanity would only limit the ability of the corporations to inevitably do greater good. So advocates of this trickle down approach should simply click 'strongly disagree' We don't see the problem.
The record, however, makes clear that there have often been spectacular conflicts of interest between coporate enrichment and humantity. Halliburton, Enron and the tobacco industry's research cover-ups are perhaps the best known examples. Others are detailed at The 10 Worst Corporations of 2008 and Corpwatch.org .
On the other hand, for the comparatively few who tell us that corporations can never serve humanity, Milton Friedman argues the case for unfettered market forces.
There is no way to "prioritize humanity", since corporations are made up of human beings, part of humanity, and because of that no conflict of interest thing. Hurting the corporations IS hurting humanity by limiting the ability of the market to serve human needs.
"Trickle down" is a strawman. Read Thomas Sowell's "Tax Cuts and the 'Trickle Down' Economics Straw Man"
Bringing up Haliburton, ENRON and the tobacco industry shows how little the authors of the quiz understand free market economics. Those companies were not operating in a free market. Their behavior has no bearing on the harmony of self interest in a free market because their interests were in getting special favors from the government. Even the tobacco industry has gotten special subsidies and operates under price controls, which benefits the more corrupt business owners and managers. The government controlled market selects for the corrupt kinds of people who would want to falsify scientific research.
This whole thread, discussion, and the "Political Compass" test simply demonstrate how liberal and progressive ideas corrupt people's minds to the point that they are unable to understand their opponents' ideas.
"A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies."
I was about to answer this "Strongly Disagree", when it occurred to me that I do believe in restrictions that prevent the creation of monopolies. But those restrictions come from the free market. I'l answer "Strongly Disagree", since I assume they meant government restrictions like antitrust laws.
"What's good for the most successful corporations is always, ultimately, good for all of us."
If they had added "In a free market", I would have put "Agree". Instead I put "Disagree". Question makes the same assumptions as in #1
I just found this on the results page: "If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground."
Actually, they would find a LOT of common ground in economics. Hitler believed his system was socialist. He simply had a different means for the government to assert ownership of property. "Why socialize industry when you can socialize PEOPLE?" Under the Soviet form of socialism, the government simply took ownership of property. In Nazism, the government takes control of the owners, and thus indirectly, control and ownership of property.
The authors of the Political Compass claim others are copying their methods. If they mean the Nolan Chart, that was developed in 1969. When was this political compass thing created?
Cynthia McKinney is left of center, tending toward libertarian? She's a Class 1, grade A, nut case, radical, far let wing liberal. Just ask any of the democrats. BHO and Biden are right of center tending toward authoritarian? Give me a fucking break.
And if you know anything at all about politics, you'll know it's very well done. It is, by far, the most accurate test of it's kind that I have ever found on the net.
Red dot = Two Republicans
Blue dot = Two Democrats
Grey dot = One of each
Their most liberal assessment (Vermont) still rates a Right hand score?
I am pretty close to Ron Paul in most of my politics, but this stupid test puts us almost a full quadrant apart. This test is useless.