If I can take your attention away from the constant Israel-bashing for just a moment, has anyone been following the events in Zimbabwe, or does it not matter since its just some meaningless African country where Israel cannot be blamed (but please do try to make your best efforts).

For those of you bemoaning supposed rigged elections in the US, reflect on how the experts do it. Robert Mugabe, who single-handedly has managed to destroy the once-thriving economy of Zimbabwe (and he's not even a Democrat!) is apparently deflating the opposition vote to only 47%. His own government will report his support has officially 43%, but that's still good enough because of the requirement for a majority run-off if no one gets over 50% (with a simple plurality rule, they would have had to finagle the numbers down even more to ensure him winning outright). The MDC is threatening to boycott a run-off, which then would give Mugabe the victory by default. And if a run-off does occur, that gives Mugabe plenty of time to coerce and kill to ensure a victory there as well.

Since the election last month, its been reported that 20 members of the MDC party have already been killed by pro-government militias. No report of IDF involvement, but I'm sure that's on a blog somewhere.

When will you fuckers be able to control your own minds, and not be scared to death of somebody coming along with an idea that might, god forbid, change your mind?

While we're at it, let's send a special invite to talldimwit to enthrall us all with more of his patented ignorance. Or am I just afraid I might change my mind that Anne Frank's diaries are not really forgeries after all and that Jews control all the media and install all US political leaders as they see fit?

while you're beating the shit outta each other.

When did I ever claim "victimhood"? Oh right, never. Just annoyance with constant mindless nation-bashing.

As again, as expected, and stated in the OP, Mr. "look at how clever I am to come up with yet another childish alias" apparently doesn't gives a shit about those being killed in Zimbabwe amid a fledgling democracy being crushed. Maybe that's his problem with Israel, its an actual functioning democracy. Can't have that in the ME.

Zisk, I've excerpted the relevant portion for you, the full essay can be found in the link.


No doubt you'll opine that Israel's support is [1] more appaent than real, [2] vastly overrated, [3] no different from the support given to Mugabe by other counties in Africa and elsewhere [4] at the behest of the US, which doesn't want to be seen openly in contact with Mugabe, and thus yet another example of the great ally Israel is to the US, [5] unfairly being hyped for obvious reasons by Holocaust-denying, terror-supporting anti-Semites, or [6] something so cock-eyed i can't imagine it until you've composed and posted it.  

Be my guest.




April 11, 2008  
Israel Loves Mugabe
Why is that?  

by Justin Raimondo

....


Yet Mugabe clings to power, while his thugs have taken possession of ballot boxes and his government refuses to release the official results, although everyone knows he and his party were trounced. The campaign of violence embarked on by ZANU-PF has intensified, and the opposition has accused Mugabe of pulling off a de facto coup.

In his long and bloody career as first and only President of Zimbabwe, the 84-year-old Mugabe has engaged in a systematic campaign of murder, racist demagoguery, and wholesale looting to maintain himself and his cronies in power. Not since Idi Amin has such a bloody-minded sociopath and mass murderer arisen out of the dark heart of Africa. The United States, which doesn't mind supporting the continent's worst dictators, from Hosni Mubarak in Egypt to Meles Zenawi in Ethiopia, won't touch Mugabe with a ten-foot pole. Indeed, listening to the Voice of America in Mugabe-land can get you in trouble with the secret police. The US, the EU, the UN, leaders of neighboring countries – all have expressed varying levels of disapproval as Mugabe's international stock has plummeted to new lows.

Yet he has always managed to retain at least one ally, through thick and thin, one that remains loyal even now, and that is the government of Israel. They have been a steady supplier of military equipment, including riot control tanks and water cannon, which has been used to suppress the democratic opposition and keep the country under his iron grip. Links between Mugabe and Mossad, Israeli's intelligence agency, go back years.

In 2002, one Ari Ben Menashe – employed by Israeli military intelligence from 1977 to at least 1987, in spite of the Israeli government's denials of any connection – shot what was purported to be covertly filmed videotape of opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai supposedly discussing a plot to assassinate Mugabe. This was triumphantly broadcast on Zimbabwe state television on the eve of elections, followed by a fresh wave of repression aimed at pro-democracy activists. The tape turned out to have been doctored, but the broadcast accomplished its task: providing a momentary rationale for Mugabe's reign of terror, which continues to this day.

So well-known is Israel's unstinting support for Mugabe that the democratic opposition has accused the government of bringing in computer "consultants" from the Mossad to manipulate voter rolls. (Which certainly surprised at least one Israeli software producer.)

What in the name of all that's holy is Israel, a democratic state founded by socialist idealists, doing supporting one of the most reviled despots on earth – one who, furthermore, is no friend of Israel, at least officially. The answer may be found in certain Israeli-based economic interests, which, in turn, could have an inordinate influence on that nation's Africa policy – specifically in the case of Zimbabwe and the "Democratic Republic of the Congo."

Unfortunately, Israel's policy in regard to Zimbabwe is not the exception that proves the rule: it is business as usual.

The moral depravity of Israel's African policies are highlighted by the close cooperation that existed between Tel Aviv and the apartheid regime of South Africa. Israel provided the expertise, experience, and technology, as well as other covert military aid, which enabled white Pretoria to hold off the African National Congress for as long as it did. And, as Jimmy Carter and others have pointed out, Israel has replicated its former ally's policy toward black South Africans in the occupied territories.

In reviewing the facts, it is hard to come up with a single despotic government that hasn't received some sort of aid or assistance from the Israelis: Colombia, where "former" Mossad agents train government anti-terrorist units and right-wing paramilitaries – El Salvador, where arms and expertise provided to successive right-wing juntas helped stabilize these US-supported regimes – Guatemala, where "former" Israeli military and intelligence officers provided security for the notoriously repressive Guatemalan military dictatorship – and the pattern is repeated throughout South and Central America.

The list goes on: Iran, under the rule of the Shah Reza Pahlavi, was the scene of the notorious SAVAK's worst crimes: the Iranian secret police reportedly were schooled in techniques of torture by the Mossad.

What is it with the Israelis? Why do they have a predilection for murderous tyrants? What seems, at first, like a pattern of sheer moral perversity may be broken down, in specific cases, into discrete economic, strategic, and diplomatic objectives. Yet one has to be astonished – and more than a little horrified – at the complete amorality that guides the Israeli government's actions around the world.

This record of Israeli support for dictators and despots worldwide is, perhaps, part of the reason for that country's growing unpopularity on a global scale: however, in the US, where the Israel lobby wields inordinate power in government and the media, it's quite a different story. Here, support for Israel is in the 70 percent range – a testament to the supposedly nonexistent power of the Lobby, and the relative ignorance of and indifference to world affairs exhibited by most Americans.

~ Justin Raimondo

you poor victim - somebody criticizes you.  Is that why we don't have democracy in the ME?  Are you gonna bring democracy by generally whining that somebody has a different idea?

Or is it your paranoia acting up?

nothing in my post, including the first "like", says anything about me being criticized. Unless maybe you are making some kind of idiotic assumption that I am an Israeli and by extension of mindless Israel-bashing that I am personally being criticized?

Otherwise, I have no fucking clue how you are reaching your conclusions.

And if posting false and biased info, with ridiculously tortured spins, is your idea of allowing "different ideas" for a flourishing democracy, then certainly talldimwit and his "Anne Frank couldn't have written those dairies because they were in ball point pen which wasn't invented until after WWII" should be praised for sharing, rather than ridiculed for spreading ignorance. Are you really unable to see any difference?

in fact, I did predict you would do exactly this. Somewhere out there, someone, somewhere, would have a blog---nothing more than a fucking blog---tying Israel to whatever is the tragedy of the day. And sure enough you googled for it, and posted it as if its informative. Accuracy doesn't matter. If someone makes a blog negative toward Israel, you will find it, and post it as if its real.

Are you trying to make up for the absence of talldimwit?

as if your response  above is not itself predictability itself?

hey, don't even bother to attempt any substantive rebuttal, thats Ok. Go ahead and take the foot out of your mouth, though.

I mean, calling people assholes is fine & understandable.

But this coming out of a clear blue sky to share that they're all out to get you is a little FUCKING TIRESOME!!

who are "they all" and when did I ever say anyone was "out to get me"?

If you can't read English, would you prefer these posts get translated into some other language for you?

First its the "I'm rubber, you're glue" reply, followed immediately by the self-contradiction response. And finally to top it off with the "gotcha" because I didn't try to retort some copy-paste blog job you did for which you yourself have no idea whatsoever is true or not. You need a new routine.

All I did was point out you did exactly what was stated in the OP. You do some lazy google search (I'm guessing Israel Mugabe), find a blog by someone you've probably never heard of or read before, and just copy-paste as some grand evidence. You then reply with, "yea, well, your reply was the predictable one" when I did not do any of the X,Y, or Z's you stated I would when you called me out by name and challenged me to make some sort of heated denial for which you already set up your straw-man defense even before the post itself. In fact, I didn't even bother with a response at all to some lazy-ass copy-and-paste from an unknown person's blog. So the very next line after complaining of my so-called predictability is you bitching about how I didn't attempt a rebuttal after all. Nice self-contradiction. And then the pithy "foot in mouth" as is you somehow managed to catch me in a trap you set up designed to make me look as hypocritical as you've been shown to be repeatedly in the past. Its so easy to get lost in the maze of your illogic when there really is no exit.

At least you did something new in one of your posts below, taking a page from talldim's playbook with the "suppose you are going to call these holocaust-deniers/anti-semites blah blah blah too" as if anyone has ever labled you that. For all I know people think that about you, and maybe its true. I have no idea. But no one has called you that as far as I am aware, so its a pretty pathetically weak self-defense. Talldim pulled that stunt immediately and repeatedly, and eventually did show himself to be all those things, but no one had accused him of it initially. You must be getting pretty desperate to resort to following his lead. How embarrassing for you. I'll chalk that up to the lateness of the hour and fogginess from whatever allergy meds you may be taking, and we'll never speak of it again. But if you don't want to be compared to talldim, don't act like him. Just like if you don't want to be compared to JackO, don't do as he does with the childish behavior of adopting aliases (in your case it would prominent Israelis such as Ariel Sharon, etc) and then making up false quotes to attribute to them so they appear to have confessed to some sort of outrageous behavior (his hackneyed Sen_Craig etc posts.)

Just some friendly advice from someone who does not hate Palestians as you like to pretend I do to bolster your own weak counter-arguments. When you are not trolling, you know this to be the case.

But if you want to keep designing these "traps" for me with the "you don't have to respond to me at all" when I do point out your mistakes, and "this proves you can't refute my meaningless copy-paste" when I don't bother replying, then march on. Its your life to waste. Maybe some day I will slip up and fall for one of your gotchas after all. Wouldn't want to crush your dreams so easily.

but if you start disturbing the other patrons, I'm gonna cut you off.

JackO routinely uses half a dozen in a single post. I think he believes that people around here are stupid enough to think  that his multiple aliases are actually disparate people all agreeing with each other instead of one delusional dimwit with no real argument to make.

I find it particulary amusing when his various aliases argue amongst themselves.

you keep going round and round, and you make yourself dizzy in the process

keep up the good work, i'll check to see if you get mentioned on the AIPAC website

When people hate you so much they can't resist tuning in, then you're Howard Stern.

So I get my client a cut of bullet-proof keyboards, which I KNOW you will buy several of.

even your one-liners are getting stale

"I find it particulary amusing when his various aliases argue amongst themselves."


personally, I find it particularly annoying. But I obviously have a low threshhold for tolerating stupidity masquerading as self-congratulations.

annoying a commited Israel-Firster  -- absolutely priceless!

You need to overcome your fixation with me and my humble efforts.  Really, just ignore then, as pretty much everyone else does.  Care to join a new 12-step group  -- Trollers Anonymous?  I'll be the discussion facilatator, and i brew a killer cup of coffee, and smoking will be allowed, i'm an amateur pastry chef so the snacks will not disappoint, adult beverages are OK in moderation and wil be provided by moi, sexual liasons between the support group members will be none of my business, BUT  you'll be asked to leave your Israeli flag in your car, though.

What about a Very Special Edition of Oprah  -- Internet Message board Trollers and the Hapless Types Who Respond, Zombie-Like, To Them?

You game?

PS.  there is a really out of control nutcase who visits this Board on occassion and flames me with the most hateful shit imaginable.  So much so, that one of his attacks had to be excised by the previous moderator, Ben Dover.  He does this under the safety of an alias, of course, but I've been hipped to his real ID and, no surprise, he's a fellow NYer.  I'm wondering where he is, and when he's going to re-emerge.  Your views are indeed hateful to me Zisk, but i will commend you for being a sane gent and presenting them with as little personal rancor as possible.

-- Modified on 5/1/2008 10:39:26 PM

sort of like mosquitoes on what would otherwise be a nice summer evening

Thanks for the PS about your life history here on the boards, I suppose. Not sure of its relevance but I won't bore you with mine. I'm not too surprised you find my "views" hateful to you...exposing your fallacies in public must be quite embarrassing for you.

I'll just clear up one final item on the agenda. Since you were so completely off-base as to why I refuse to engage in Israel-bashing alongside you (I leave that to your cheerleader tallslim) in some other post below, I'll clue you in here on the silliness of your repeatedly calling me a Likudist or now an "Israel-Firster".

I simply find it stupid for people like you to engage in mindless nation-bashing, regardless of which nation it is. On this board, the only one who does it is you and talldimwit, and of Israel. If you employed the same tactics of making up events and quotes that never occured, misinterpreting historical events, and trying to put a negative spin on any action, no matter what it is, for any country, be it Canada, Denmark, Phillipines, Jordan, etc. etc. I would eventually respond the same way, to forcefully point out where its wrong and put it in context. But the only nation-bashing that occurs on this board seems to be of Israel, so thats where you see much of my responses. I've had problems with some actions any government has done, including Israel, from time to time. But to harp so incessantly on any one nation, using false information and contradictory logic to do so, is idiotic. So I call you out on it. (And honestly, lately you have been resorting to tallslim tactics, which does your case no good.) Hell I think the government of North Korea is pure evil, but I don't feel the need to post ad nauseum about it, or make stuff up to try to bolster my position, or deliberately misrepresent some irrelevancy and then claim, "see, I told you NK is evil!!" You've also sometimes gone dangerously close, and other times crossed the line altogether, by chastigating Israelis as a people, stating Israelis are untrustworthy and duplicitous, etc etc., which would be tantamount to me claiming all Palestinians are blood-thirsty subhumans, instead of staying focused on any of the members of the numerous Palestinian terrorist organizations themselves. Again, you've been dipping into the pit of talldim's racism.

There is the occassional post made by someone ripping on some other country (some times perhaps justifyable for a specific activity, other times warped so far its out of reality) but its so rare its not a pattern. Unlike you, who as just one example, instigated half a dozen new threads on the same damn topic just the other day, for the sole purpose of piling on Israel. You are ridiculous. I feel no trepidation to saying so. And I don't, obviously, reply to, or even read, all of your bashing threads.

I've never said Israel (or any nation) is above reproach. But it certainly appears as if you use whatever is the event of the day merely as an excuse to be able to make another hate-filled post bashing Israel.

So by your extension of calling me a Likudist, I suppose that if I felt the need to correct somebody else on their misinformation on constantly bashing the history of US, they should call me a Republican?

And since I'm not an Israeli, I don't actually own an Israeli flag (but I do have a car.) My family actually hails from other parts of the world.

So I'll pass on your meeting, but wouldn't be averse to sharing a cup of coffee. (Or more specifically, we would each have our own cup of course.) But leave the ciggies at home.