As I have said before, I am not a fan of Fed bailout plans, even the ones that have been profitable, i.e. Chrysler, Mexican Peso, etc), but the consequences of not passing are too great.

Why did that son of bitch Pelosi have to give that partisan speech right before the vote? This is not a Dem/Rep bill. Those that voted against it were listening to their constituents, and wanted to ensure they will be voted back to Congress in November.

Most Americans work in small businesses. Do they realize they will now lose their job irrespective of the fact that they were against the bill? Small businesses use short term loans to fund payroll, inventory, and other operating expenses until such time their receivables are paid.

Maybe when Americans not only lose their jobs, but open their IRA and 401K statements in Oct and see the losses, maybe they will realize their stupidity.

Unfucking believable.

and just talk to folks... when I would ask basic questions about loans... and how they work, you would be amazed at the answers I would get.  

The math is not hard, but what is hard is the concept... for the most part folks cannot understand that for the most part, money cannot be "created"  and even if you make more "bills" then you devalue the bills that currently exist, if there are no goods and services to back up the bills....

We've few leaders who are willing to stand up - for my part,

I've begun to think that we need to fail.  We need folks to become constrained economically - that is the only way for the US to recover its soul.... by biting a bitter pill... How many people do you know who spend more than they make... or have a house that is way too big for their family...  and when did an SUV become a right?  I remember my family when I was young hauling us around in a simple low end family sedan... and somehow we survived...

nowadays - we gotta take it all with us...  well, we are soon to have a whole lot less to take.  about time.

She knew she either didn’t have the votes or she knew it was very close. What does she do right before the vote? Minutes before the vote, she goes to the floor to deliver a partisan speech, attacking Bush and the Republicans. It’s as if she wanted some Republicans (whose arms had been twisted) to bolt.

You mentioned that folks need to become constrained economically. I am a free market capitalist, and logic would say that I would be opposed to this bill, and that failure is a natural part of the system. Granted I have taken a hit with my investments, but I will be fine economically. I suspect you and others on this board will be fine economically. Wall Street execs will be fine. We can probably weather the next couple of years until such time the market turns, but this bill in a perverse way helps the so-called middle class. They will lose their jobs. The small paltry amount they have in savings, if not in CD's, will be dramatically smaller.

God I sound like a populist, and I am not.

yeah, even when the "Republicans bolt" its the Democrats' fault


"    "No" votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle. More than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill."



-- Modified on 9/29/2008 12:40:39 PM

While I agree with what Pelosi said it was extremely irresponsible and untimely.  There was absolutely NO benefit to belaboring the point.  It is easy to see how this happened and who contributed to it, restating it only gave Republicans an excuse to not have the votes.

I will say from my view, I am SO tired of the school-yard antics of our politicians, from both sides.  

As I said below, I was back in the Midwest dealing with a family emergency this weekend and I was really shocked as to how many average citizens do not understand the scope of this situation.  To be honest, without the exposure to high-level professionals, I don’t think I would have understood it either.  Most just don’t understand the market and how it affects them.  They really see this as a ploy by the rich “wall street fat cats” (seems to be a popular phrase) to receive a get-out-of-jail-free-card, they don’t realize the implications to their everyday lives and jobs.  No matter who is to blame, it has to be repaired or we all go down.

We, as a nation are fucked, if this doesn’t get ironed out.  I am so disappointed this wasn’t passed.

M

that could have been involved here. A dozen that might have been on the fence. A dozen that maybe are irrational. What about the rest of the 132 Republicans and the 94 Democrats that voted Ney. We have no idea yet exactly what the affect of her speech was.

I'm not blaming Pelosi for how anyone voted, but she was at the very least, EXTREMELY STUPID to take the action that she took. She's supposed to be in charge of the entire House.

There's also the possibility that she knew it was going to fail and then tried to make some political points.

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 12:51:05 PM

Pelosi has been making it a very nasty, partisan issue, after McCain talked a fair number of Republicans into voting for it.  

There are two possible reasons:  1) she has not diplomatic skills - offending the opposition that you want to convert. 2) she wanted it to fail because as long as the crisis lasts it helps the Dems.

None of us will ever know what is actually in her mind, and it will be just a matter of opinion.  That is mine.

Because I was leaning towards BOTH.

the need to buy buy buy - the plasma tv, the blue-ray disc... the vacation here and there... the new iPod... the newer model of a thing that makes the old one obsolete before I even get it home... that type of unconstrained consumerism.

For the most part, I agree - where my business investments are sound, and put into companies that actually make a product - that folks can see, touch and feel... you are right - they will be ok.  Things less substantial will be the first to go.

For the most part, jobs will suffer.... then we'll se "trickle down economics" at its worst...

but as I say - what I see?  Unrestrained spending of money too oft by credit - as opposed actual income... that is the problem.  We've become a debtor nation, both personally and nationally.

They don't know the difference between a Bailout, Rescue or a Loan. Some idiots think the government is dolling out money. No  they are not. They are getting security, interest and preferred stock in the companies and a payback guarantee.

If it were, then just loan the current owners enough money to carry through and let THEM wait for the correct time to sell the securities or wait for the mortgages to mature when all the monies plus profit is recouped.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403033.html

How about this article ? Some very good points .

by multiple so-called experts today on CNBC. They included raising the FDIC limit, as well as eliminating the "mark-to-market" rule, eliminating the ban on shorting and reinstating the uptick rule as the most effective ways to deal with this crisis.

I am to the point of just do something now...anything. But I have to realize government is not designed to be effective, efficient, or competent. I guess because they don't have to worry about competition.

What do you  think about suspending the mark-to-market rule like Newt is talking about ?
-- Modified on 9/29/2008 8:24:49 PM

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 8:26:17 PM

Was he on Fox today talking about it? This topic can get complicated, and I am no expert, but mark-to-market forces banks/firms to revalue on an ongoing basis their assets to current market values even when the market is frozen or dysfunctional, and even when the assets could be held to maturity and redeemed at face value.

You have all these foreclosures, and banks have had to drastically mark down these assets, or take losses when in fact there is still an asset, i.e. the foreclosed property.

I have to stop listening to CNBC. I am to the point of addiction, especially the past month. I need to get back to ESPN or Two and Half Men.

Nevertheless, panic in the air, blood in the streets, I just need to find my testicles and buy some stocks.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/29/mark-to-market-oped-cx_ng_0929gingrich.html

Yea he was on Greta van Sustren . Here is a good article that talks about it.

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 8:27:45 PM

AAhhhh, what happened to the good old days when we had the gold standard?? Back then, a dollar was worth a dollar. And silver certificates, anyone have some stashed away in a cookie tin? Is that even legal now? I thought we were supposed to turn them in for 'new' dollars.

-- Modified on 9/29/2008 9:12:03 PM

The flip side to instant Mark to Market rules allows companies to hide worthless or low value assets on their books 'forever'.

plus watched a few other shows, including CNBC Europe simultaneously. All, and I mean all so-called experts mentioned changing the "mark-to-market rule. Plus many discussed increasing the FDIC amount, reducing or eliminating capital gains, and even having a coordinated world-wide rate reduction.

Need to give some kudos to Rightwing Underground for his post yesterday. He is spot on with respect Sarbanes-Oxley, capital gains, and Paulson. I wouldn't be surprised if Paulson resigns this week.

Now if we can only include the resignation of Pelosi in any bailout bill that resurfaces this week. I know this is bizarre, but I would send money to the Cindy Sheehan election campaign just to get Pelosi out of Washington. At least as a freshman in Congress, Cindy wouldn't be able to do any serious damage for a few years. I can't believe I am even suggesting this.

Then hang all of the middlemen from it. Then take all of the speculators and hang them from it. Charge congress with treason and have a trial, then hang the those convicted from the gallows. Those actions should clear up all this economic bullshit.

MAC should ask Obama when he was a community organizer for ACORN did he ever help a couple get financing for a house they could not afford