Politics and Religion

Truly a miracle of stem cells has occured..........................................
emeraldvodka 9768 reads
posted


  The stem cells used to achieve the regrowth of the jawbone came from the man's own bone marrow, not from a would be fetus.  


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040827/ap_on_he_me/engineered_bones&cid=541&ncid=716


These stem cell restrictions are too heavy-handed, and other countries have the jump on us now in terms of this work.

/Zin

RLTW7994 reads

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only restrictions are in regards to Government funding. There have been no restrictions placed on the actual research of stem cells.

RLTW

RLTW9993 reads

I did take a closer look, since I'm trying to keep an open mind about this. It turns out I'm right that there is no far reaching ban on stem cell research. Here's some of what I found:

On "restricitons" and funding issues:
http://techcentralstation.com/081304B.html

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005467

On the research itself:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/24/science/24stem.html?ex=1251000000&en=18f7447019815f0d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/351/7/627

Your posts bring to mind a favorite quote:
"Walk with those seeking Truth. Run from those who think they've found it".

RLTW

There are no scientific papers reflecting ANY success with fetal stem cells.  It's just the abortionist spin on partial birth abortion (murder), based on lies that keep the lunitic fringe (present company included) worked up about this.

2sense7564 reads

Unfortunately, the government sites referred to by Bribite led to "HHS fact" sites with subtitles like:

"The President’s Decision is Based on Ethical Principles"

"Decision based on Ethics"

"Bipartisan Support for Ethical Treatment of Human Embryos"

and "Broad Support Internationally" (Germany, Austria and Ireland)

These are little more than campaign press releases for George W., and have little relationship to the facts. Alas, there was a time when scientific issues, distinct from religious persuasions, held sway at NIH/HHS. Now, scientists are being subjected to neo-Lysenkoism, as well as neo-conservatism.

On the issue of adult versus fetal stem cells, research is proceding on both. However, the general consensus from stem cell researchers is that fetal cells offer a much wider range of differentiated cells than those derived from adult cells.

-- Modified on 8/27/2004 5:44:10 PM

There are been absolutely NO successes with fetal stem cells to date!  And plenty of ongoing research and attempts.

If that is not true, back up your comment with some facts!  

You might know that the stem cells noted in the jaw bone case were the man's own, not a murdered babies!


Or were you just inserting another casual lie and hoping nobody would notice?

/Zin

It was given as one of the "possitives" about partial birth abortion by Planned Parenthood in testimony before congress.

Ultimately fetal stem cells are not needed, adult stem cells are proceeding and meeting some success, fetal stem cells have not had the same success.

Any other questions?

2sense6508 reads

RLTW is correct, in the narrow sense, that George W. forbade  federal funding for stem cell research, except for a few cell lines of limited utility. His policy also left the door open for privately-funded research on this topic.

Nevertheless, George W.'s policy has effectively crippled research progress on stem cells. Although private research plays important roles in the U.S. (e.g., development of billion-dollar a year drugs for defined illnesses such as high serum cholesterol, arthritis etc.), it should be recognized that almost all "basic" research is conducted by federally-funded academic researchers. "Basic" research usually provides the fundamental underpinnings for medical breakthroughs, without itself directly yielding commercial therapies. Unfortunately, George W.'s stem cell policy has resulted in a defacto ban on this research in traditional medical centers. Academic researchers tend to shy away from such politicized research areas, knowing that their funding may dry up with slight shifts in policy.

One of RLTW's websites cites a New England Journal Medicine article that accurately describes how George W.'s policy is obstructing this work.

Title: "Missed Opportunities in Embryonic Stem-Cell Research" by George Daley, M.D., Ph.D.


Summary: "Three years have passed since August 9, 2001, when President George W. Bush drew a line in the sand: he announced that research on human embryonic stem cells created before that date would be supported by federal dollars; research on lines created later would not. The President's policy has severely curtailed opportunities for U.S. scientists to study the cell lines that have since been established, many of which have unique attributes or represent invaluable models of human disease."

Stem cell research is an exciting new discipline, offering the potential for novel therapies for a wide range of diseases. Just today (see link), there was a report in Lancet of a new jawbone grown with the aid of stem cells and implanted in a patient. Note that this revolutionary procedure was done in Germany, not the U.S. If procedures such as this are validated and repeated, it won't be long before the U.S. finds itself in a scientific backwater.


Is that it added tons of paperwork to and years of approval time to private research and opened it up to limitless litigation and assorted harassment.

Yes, you can do it privately.  That's misleading, however. You can't do it without a "license" somewhere, but it's the executive branch that grants the "licenses" and collects the "license fees" and sets the schedule. Don't think the Bush administration is going to be a push-over about any of this.  

Information about that is damn harder to find.

I encourage you to either look or follow your own advice and run now, because my opinion is unchanged.

/Zin

2sense10694 reads

And not to put too fine a point of it, but George W. making this a 'cause celebre' may also lead to violent harassment of stem-cell researchers by anti-abortion groups.

In this context, it's not altogether surprising that today a pipe bomb exploded at a U.S. stem-cell lab (see below link).

You are right about there not being a broad based ban on stem cell research.  But you are wrong that the ban that exists on government funding of such research has not brought it to a standstill in this country.  All key pioneering medical research has been government funded simply because few private companies will fund research that does not hold some promise of a marketable product in a few years.  Most of the work with stem cells is highly theoretical and to be fairly frank, somewhat speculative.  But those two characteristics are the conerstones of ground breaking research, and as I pointed out, such research very seldom is taken on by private companies in the absence of some government subsidy.

That the restrictions are ONLY in regards to Government funding is a bit of an understatement (the Gov is the Daddy of academic research).  While it is true (as I understand it) that there is not a complete ban on the research per se - it has far reaching implications.  Even if a university researcher can fund their research they cannot use a publically funded building to conduct it.  


Your quote "Walk with those seeking Truth. Run from those who think they've found it" is far too F'n often applicable to Bushie (if not ALWAYS).



RLTW9014 reads

You're right about the Government being the Sugar Daddy of academic research. But that's not the case with private sector research. The point of my post is that the Government has not banned research, as Zin wrongly claims.

As to my quote, it applies to all politicians, all of the time.

RLTW

Yes, but the quote applies to some in bad ways. Especially those who somehow believe they are closer to God or on a mission from God (John Belushi is rolling in his grave).  

It's all relative (IMO).  

-- Modified on 8/27/2004 11:18:44 AM

Oh, you said LIVE birth.  My mistake.

KCSHYGUY

-- Modified on 8/29/2004 1:46:49 PM

almost assuredly those who feel it is an "abomiation unto God".

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