The following line in the article just had me cracking up!!

 "Most of these allies contributed forces to Iraq because of the generous U.S. aid package that was promised them, rather than any belief in the mission."
  No wonder they do not want to risk their soldiers lives.  Hell they got our tax money(aid package, BRIBE).  Now its time to lay low.  And who can blame them.  

  Read the entire article and you will see exactly what "coalition of the willing" really is.  Nobody wanted this damn war except the Likudniks, neocons, and the right wing war mongers.  
  When sensible people were trying to suggest that the intelligence sounds shady they were accused of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy"  by the war mongers.  Turns out much of the intelligence was indeed being cherry picked by the neocons like Feith and being fed by the likes of Chalabi.  
  Now that even Powell has admitted intelligence was from unreliable sources and some of it was outright misleading, one would think people would admit this was a wrong war.  

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 11:45:47 AM

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 11:46:37 AM

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_4.html

more or a story about cowards who somehow made it into the military.  There are days when I do not like my job...but I do it because it is my job....get it!!

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 1:18:28 PM

Yeah, but if your job is killing innocent people and getting killed, then that's a different story...get it?

The UN, lining it's pockets with Iraqi childrens lunch money.

French, German, Russians, not wanting to bust up multi year, multibillion $$ contracts with the Butcher of Bagdad.

Between those who want failure to satisfy their hatred of Bush and those who want to step into the power vacuum to be next to sign with the French, no one seems to give a flying fuck about the average Iraqi but the GI's on the ground, dying for em.

Step away from the bong dude-  what did that post mean?

I love Bk when you talk on other issues- but this made little sense.

We're probalby just ranting past each other

If the issue is what the average Iraqi wants now, all of the recent polls simply indicate that they want us out of there.

For example: Before the recent "unpleasantness" at Abu Graib prison, a late April CNN-USA-Today poll indicated that, by a 56%-37% majority, Iraqis would prefer US and British troops to leave their country at once. Over two-thirds believe that during military operations, US forces are "not trying at all" to protect ordinary civilians from being killed or wounded.

That's right, their "troop."

EV, I couldn't stop laughing when I heard on NPR that the Polish President was angry because Bush had promised to give Green Cards (immigration permit to the U.S.)to a lot of poles, and ended up not keeping his word, and didn't make it any easier!

Now, I love importation of pole babes!  They have some of the most beautiful women on earth.  But sending soldiers to a stupid war, to get green card!!!!!????

   has been in convincing the world of this wars moral and strategic necessity, preparing a solid post-war plan and an exit strategy, and not being flexible enough to adapt to the everchanging situation.  
   Almost every word of caution that the so called "appeasers" were saying about this war before the start has come to fruition.  
But the smartest thing president Karl Rove did was link Saddam to 9-11.  The emotional wounds of 9-11 were so deep that the emotion could be exploited for war and that is exactly what president Rove did.  
   Members of this admin have retracted virtually every single piece of information they used before the war to convince the people this war was necessary.  And the icing on the cake came last sunday when Powell himself admitted that the intelligence was either highly unreliable or out right misleading.  
   This admin is truly the most despicable and unworthy admin probably in the history of our great nation.

they retreated from gunfire and confrontation with the enemy, not innocents.....so no, what you imply is not their job!!

Trying to get rid of occupiers in your land makes you enemy???

So, is it your contention that the insurgent fighters, of which the majority are former members of Saddam's Fayadeen militia, who often shoot through the women and children they use as human shields and are fighting to derail the handover of sovereignty to Iraq, are really freedom fighters?

RLTW

No.

   I don't think anyone has that opinion of you  The entire lead up to the war has been full of dishonest characters, statements, and presentatnions to congress and the American public.  But it happened so soon after 9-11, and purposefully so due the well of anger and emotion present that could be exploited.  The political timing was absolutely perfect. However, Since the war virtually every statement made by this admin before the lead up has since been retracted and exposed as misleading or a complete lie.  
   Personally, I am a conservative on many issues but I would never vote for most Republicans even though I see eye to eye in principle and ideology with them more than Democrats.  The crusaders have taken over the Republican party and are moving it to the far right inquisition, flat earth, salem witch trials extremism that is dangerous for this nation and the world.

working hand in hand with Al Queda, if not directed by.  The highest estimate of fighters I would dig up was 20,000, and in a country the population of 20mil that is a tiny tiny very tiny fraction of the population engaging in actual resistance, and many are "foreign" fighters.    

So yes, if you were an ex Saddam loyalist who lived at the top while the normal Iraqi citizen just got by, or Al Queda, or any foreign fighter, you are the enemy.  A cowardly enemy at that shooting from behind women, children and so called holy sites.

Again, the article only demonstrated to me the Italian military in Iraq, and their political masters, are cowards.

It is a known fact by now that there was never any connection betweeen Saddam's regime and Al Queda, I don't think anyone denies that anymore, not even Bush!  So let's keep that one out of the dicussion here, shall we?  The situation in Iraq is turning in to a civil war and if anyone thinks things are going to get better after June 30th, then they are in for a big surprise.  As it has been mentioned everywhere, our government was badly misinformed with erroneous data as to what Saddam was up to, that and other factors such as oil, prompted us to go in and make it even a bigger mess that what it was.

No comments on the Italian army, I am not sure how that got in to this discussion!

the US Military would go home on their own a give Bush a finger, so many don't have to die for nothing.

I wasn't speaking about Saddam/Al Queda links prior to the war but afterwards as part of the so called resistance.  So the mention of Al Queda is mighty relevant to "today", as was my statement.

Can't disagree with ya that links prior are pretty scarce as best.

Yes it's probably going to get worse before better.

At the moment there areas where armed resistance abounds and the situation can be described as worse than under Saddam but come one now, the majority of Iraq is pretty darned peaceful by comparison.  But yep...it's still a mess over there!

Lastly, the OP link to an article...and that's where the cowardly Italians came from.  Funny how the article seemed to hold the Poles in higher regard...guess they're not the dunces we oft-times joke about!

any hobbying this weekend?  mine was fun!

of course, thanks to our president for expediting this alliance! or maybe I should say, creating this alliance!

Hobbying is going well, I will get my fix tomorrow night, I was too busy doing my family chores this weekend.

After all, your "Hoo-ah" was your most insightful post yet on this BB.

That quote can be attributed to almost any Italian.

and weather or not the alliance was necessary to combine forces because so many of then have gotten caught.  Ya really gotta wonder if there's more of less of them today but I doubt there will be an accurate terrorist census anytime soon.

cya
bb

I don't mean to be a party pooper but I recall a fairly successful terrorist by the name of Osama who by all accounts has not been caught - why is a matter of debate (to be generous).  

  I'm quite sure that (2ndComing)Bush has created more would be evildoers than before - Unless genocide (there are those who would not be opposed) is implemented there is going to be hatred bred from this war for years and years and F'n years.

There was a time when we had righteousness by our side but this monkey has FUCKED it up - Think he can fix it ?

Although, they are almost certainly less organized, and their capability for a large, coordinated operation like 9/11 is probably less than it was 3 years ago, the Madrid train bombing operation represented an impressive bit of logistics.  In fact, that operation probably signalled to the world that we have not come close to defeating Al Qaida at this time.