would be making them public?
No, I suppose you wouldn't. Talk about ideology crumbling, then again, that would require some infrastructure in the first place, which Hanoi lacks.
If his military records would refute the Swift Boat Vets, don't you think he would allow them to be made public?
No, I suppose you wouldn't.
"Remember, I haven't counted up Kerry's real sponsorships yet nor looked anywhere else for accomplishments."
As it would seem, neither has anybody else!
Data which Mr.Kerry cannot control. Have at it.
And of course, I (we) do, because it will destroy him with all but the most leftist ideologues, present company included!
Let me make this as clear as I can for you, HE'S HIDING IT! We are going to EXPOSE HIM!
That will be bad news for your camp come November.
contained in the link was on Mr.Kerry's military record and the awarding of medals. It is public domain information that a person can read and come to their own conclusions. What is wrong with doing that?
These are not Naval Records, these are letters and documents that are sent (mailed) to GI's! Records would include the letter citing the injury and how it happened and would be signed by the officer who was commending Hanoi John!
Did you see any of that? No, you didn't. Don't you ever wonder why?
Naval Records could be made public, but only if Kerry signs off on them (excluding any that would still be considered "matters of national security'!)
I wrote to the Army and received my fathers entire "Official" Military Record from WWII and Korea, induction to separation, but only after "my Dad" signed off on it, they would not release them to me while he was alive without his permission.
I have also received copies of my own in a similar fashion. That is how it is done.
"These are not Naval Records, these are letters and documents that are sent (mailed) to GI's!"
Bribite, you are a liar!!!!!
Not Navy records my ass!! Sent to GI's??!! Jargon over bullshit!! I was in the Navy, Bribite. I know you are given all the records pertaining to your service at your discharge. They give you everything pertaining to your commendations. The process you cite is for obtaining lost or duplicate records.
You want to prove me wrong: I challenge you to open up these PDFs and illustrate **exactly** what you are talking about. Quote them here. Tell us what they should say if they were "official."
I've caught you in other lies, and you've written around them, but now it's plain that you are a liar to the core.
You have single-handedly nailed down my zeal for Kerry, now, Bribite. The closer you've made me look at him, the better he looks, the closer I look at you and your hero, Yellow-Belly Bush, the more unfit either of you look to be making any political decisions, no matter how small. Not only are you great propaganda for Kerry, but you are the second-best argument against voting for Bush that there is, the first being Yellow-Belly himself.
/Zin
8-0
They look very much the same as my separation papers, other than names, locations, signatures and a few citations.
Did you see the one George (Alzheimers) Elliott signed? Perhaps stem cell research would benefit him and his heirs. Interesting to say the least since he LIED in the commercial.
How about the document signed by the person that REALLY treated Lt.JG Kerry for his wounds. I did not see him LYING in the Swift Boat Liars For Bush ad.
Zin is right, you recieve these papers at separation, in case you loose them you need to fill out forms and then they are mailed to you in the manner you describe.
BTW, because they sent a copy to you via USPS, does not make them any less official than the papers you are provided at separation.
I will answer your post in an upcoming thread that I will start. I find some of the stuff that you wrote about in the post to which I am responding sad (sad for you). I will explain why when I post my thread.
I am not trying to duck you, I am simply in the middle of several time consuming transactions and only have time to post something that I can copy most of or do not have to write much on. Your post caused me to think back on my life and the lives of two of my older siblings. I came away from that with some realizations that made me feel sad for you, not that you don't still piss me off.
I know they keep saying his military records are not public, but they are!
-- Modified on 8/17/2004 5:05:48 PM
johnkerry.com? Nice source.
-- Modified on 8/17/2004 7:59:34 PM
You demanded that he release his records and he did. If you would have bothered to check them out, you would have seen that they are photocopies of his records. Where the hell should he have posted them, on GWBushRecords.com???
These are records after the awards were granted! Even you leftist ideologues can see that...but only if you want to. The Navy's records would require Hanoi to sign off on their release! He won't! He Can't! He most likely wrote himself up for the PH's! Nobody else has come forward as taking credit, nor has Hanoi John said who commended him.
However, I'm not at all surprised that you guys think these file are sufficient. Letters sent to him by the Navy, this you Sherlock Holmes wannabee's think of as Official Naval records.
Hanoi John's a fraud, you guys picked him, now live with it - America won't buy it come November.
I have a question for you lefties, how does it feel to have the leader of your socialist beliefs running from his own record? Having to lie about who he really is?
You are such a liar!!!
Open them, quote them here at length. By all means. Tell us what the correct documents would say. Let everyone see your greater conservative wisdom.
/Zin
Sounds like it was written by Mr. Potato(e) himself; no, wait, it was!!!
While you have your head up your ass, why don't you check yourself for polyps?
-- Modified on 8/19/2004 1:56:58 AM
You just saw 2 links that reveal in thorough detail Kerry's records in Vietnam. You kids have to play fair Bribite, so now its your turn to show. Now would you post atleast 2 links like the ones above showing in thorough detail W and Cheney's Vietnam records. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you can't can you.
A. Was it because the dog at the records??
B. Or or was it because a sudden gust of wind came and blew them out of your car??
C. Or is it simply that Dick and Bush don't have any records to begin with because the 2 didn't have the balls to take their sorry asses to Vietnam.
The correct answer is C. Congratulations you have just won a case of republiCON cool-aid. Drink up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was a terrible Naval Officer and dozens of Kerry's former comrades in the Navy are putting their career necks on the line to publically say so. Let the Liable and slander litigation begin. Those brave souls will sign affidavits and go to court to be cross examined if need be.
Kerry will lose in court and I sure hope he loses this election.
If Kerry wins, we'll go into a recession after he raises everyones taxes and then he might just get us all killed cause he's such a chicken shit about fighting islamofascist terrorists.
P.S. Read Unfit For Command by John O'Neill and Jerome Corsi
The fact is your guy Bush is just a useless and pathetic as Kerry is. Both Kerry and Bush are unfit for command of our great nation plain and simple!!!!!
You sniff Bush is the greatest and the democrats sniff Kerry is the brilliant statesman. Well guess what?? The blow for both sides comes from the same stash, and its the suppliers of the stash benefitting from most of you because most of the public is too damn blind to see the difference.
You might find the mental exercise to be good. Start with the PDF files of Kerry's military records in the link above. They completely contradict everything you've said, everything that Kerry's comrades had to say *at the time* before Kerry threw his medals, before the nation was polarized over the calamity of Vietnam.
Your recent posts suggest you need the mental exercise, but do go slowly at first.
/Zin
-- Modified on 8/17/2004 11:59:13 PM
I saw a great graphic on Kos, in which Cheney merged into Lon Chaney's great "Phantom of the Opera". Scariest thing I've seen in some time. Were you thinking of that?
It was the only thing I could think of. Lon Cheney's work as an early horror movie actor seemed sufficient enough to compare with our current (but not for much longer) VP. I actually used it in a thread last month.
I would like to see that graphic you're talking about. If it's as scary as you imply, though, I may not want to go back to sleep for a while.
THE HORROR, THE HORROR!!!
Giving his record isn't a good use of his time. We're in the internet age. You don't even need a stamp or envelope. There is no time delay to getting facts, other than the time it takes to read.
Also, as you've so clearly demonstrated in your previous post, his accomplishments are a matter of taste. You say he has had no accomplishments in the Senate. What you mean, but don't say, is no **conservative** accomplishments in the Senate. He's had accomplishments, but you don't like them, you consider them degenerate. Many conservatives feel the same way you do. With such low regard for distinctions like that, why boast about accomplishments openly in a speech, when the record is so available? It's not a good management of his time, since he will have to spend time responding to all of the nonsense conservatives will throw at him for it.
Furthermore, conservatives will always have an attack based not on his performance, but on the collective nature of the Senate itself. Unlike a governor, who signs this bill or that bill, or who starts an initiative, Senators usually can't do any such thing. If Kerry takes credit for something, it causes resentment because so many other Senators were usually involved.
No, it's better for him to let conservatives break cover and draw fire as you have. Your vicious hot air motivates all of us to look Kerry up and get impressed with him. For that, the Kerry campaign needs to thank you and others like you.
/Zin
You know that there is no way Kerry will whack Iran or Syria and those 2 countries have to be whacked cause they're in on this terrorist stuff. Bush got Saudi Arabia and Libya on our side without a war but if we don't stay strong, they'll jump and that's what'll happen if Kerry gets elected, THEY'LL JUMP SIDES TO THE ISLAMOFASCISTS SIDE. Egypt will jump too.
What are we gonna do? Let them develop A bombs and missiles to nuke Israel? When is a good time to fight?
It's so insane. Madeline Albright was against the 91 war but was all for Clinton bitch slappping Iraq on the day he was impeached. So was Daschle AND KERRY. They were all saying HOW BRILLIANT CLINTON WAS TO SHOW SADDAM HE'S IN BIG TROUBLE. Kerry and the rest of the dem posse were saying damn the UN we have to lead.
Now we have to have their permissoion, GIVE ME A BREAK.
I'm sorry but Kerry just does not have the balls to be president.
P.S. Please answer the question of when is a good time to fight?
2nd quest. What makes you think Kerry will ever fight?
1. Why did the chicken cross the road??
2. What makes you think??(this really is a question if you get it)
self-preservation. YYEEEAAAAHHHHHH
there is nothing more than false fed fear similar to those who are borderline delusional. Ofcourse this is exactly what happens when a lack of global knowledge mixes with drinking a big glass of political cool-aid.
Both sides are asking what now, what now. Had most of you bothered to ask why over the course of past 50 years we wouldn't be in the position we are in today.
So perhaps we could understand each other on that level.
When's a good time to fight? Afghanistan was a good time to fight. I'm all for that one. Actually, I would have drawn China and India into an anti-terror alliance and would have attacked both Afghanistan and Pakistan. But I'll say knocking down the Taliban was a step forward.
But what we've allowed to happen there because we're tied down in Iraq is a step backward. We really needed to consolidate and rebuild Afghanistan.
What makes me think Kerry will ever fight? Because he *has fought.* His idol, JFK, **did**. Fighting in his history. He went to war. It's in the person he admires most. Unlike Bush, who never fought except maybe on a rugby field. This is a no-brainer Gopper.
It will be suicidal for the royal family of Saudi Arabia to "jump." Now, Moslems have been known to be suicidal, but not that royal family. They'll never jump their nation into poverty, since the US is the best business partner that they have, and the know it. And they'll jump directly into the hands of the radicals that will kill them. The US is their best protection against that. Egypt can't jump for similar reasons. Libya may jump but so what? We'll hardly know it. That country isn't that important.
I disagree with you. Attacking into the Middle East wasn't in our interests. Supporting Israel also isn't in our interests. Islam, especially the radical kind, has been expanding in Asia and in Africa. Attack them there. Get the Islamic countries in the Middle East on our side, or at least the governments there on our side. Divide Islam.
Meanwhile, tell them, in no uncertain terms, that another attack on our homeland will probably mean a nuke on Mecca. It will insult the Saudi's, but they'll get used to it. The Soviet Union did.
You talk about balls or grit, but that's not an infinite resource. Unless used with a good strategy, it's not only wasted but it is turned against you.
/Zin
-- Modified on 8/19/2004 8:35:07 PM
Dumbya has lost over 4,000 lives on his watch; 9/11/2001, the subsequent war on terror, and the now unjustified WMD war in Iraq. Shrub has a proven track record of losing American lives while being "Commander-in-Chief". Kerry "may get us all killed" as you so idiotically believe, but it looks like Dumbya has already beaten him to the punch on that. That's the only thing Shrub will beat Kerry in during this election campaign.
-- Modified on 8/19/2004 6:55:19 AM
Zin-monster, there's no way India would pair up w/China. China does not get along very well with any of its neighbors. China's a monster that wants more land. That little dispute over Kashmir, China's a player in that and they have controlled the Kashmir Soda Plains/Aksai Chin for as long as I can remember.
Israel is more than just an alliance. They are a true Democracy where Moslems are citizens with full rights (the Palestinians that didn't run/leave in 47). A true Democracy in a sea of brutal barbaric states. Israel has nuclear weapons and has shown heroic restraint. Israel does what we tell them. They are our chained dog. That dog has a BIG BITE. So long as we have a president that acts responsibley(like Bush I,II or Reagan), Israel will stay our chained dog. If we get weenieboy Kerry as president, Israel will unchain themselves and act in their own interests for self preservation. Independent of Weenieboy Kerry.
JFK, NOT THAT GOOD OF A PICK FOR A ROLE MODEL. You remember Clinton, that's what he did in the pussy realm. JFK was a better military officer than Kerry but that's not saying much. Kennedy was a real chicken shit during the Bay of Pigs. He set up the Freedom Fighters and then stabbed them in the back by not giving them air-cover as he promised. Why, BECAUSE THE UN WAS HAVING A HISSEY FIT. Just think, no Castro, no Cuban Missile crisis(that almost started WW3)if Kennedy had only had the balls and character to fulfill a promise that he made.
A fantastic book on JFK: A Question of Character. I can't remember the author but it came out about 10 years ago. It's awesome. The good point about JFK is that he did have the capacity to grow into the job. KERRY DOES NOT. PS. I DON'T HATE KERRY, I JUST DO NOT WANT HIM AS PREZ.
They both have a vested interest in turning back the spread of radical Islam into Asia, no if's ands or buts. As it is, though, the arrangement we have with Pakistan is less than ideal, but at least it follows the first principle of dealing with your enemies: divide. The only reason we haven't tried is we're stuck in the cold war mentality.
Israel might be our chained dog, and have somewhat democratic values, and be a nuclear power, but they are ***a severe strategic liability*** now. End of story. They are not really our dog, they are more like our tail. With Israel as our tail, they can wag us. They keep the Arabs in the region more united against us, and they are a constant threat to war and interruption of our oil supply. Plus, they are absolutely dependent on our aid, something that never escapes notice of the Arabs. Suppose things go right and Israel wins against all those barbaric states. Do you think, for one minute, that we'll get a better deal for oil from Israel than from the Arabs?
You asked me why I thought Kerry would fight, I answered that. Questioning JFK's as a role model, or his tactical blunders, or his sex life do not contradict and are not excluding of any point I made. They only distract. I'll make it simple. Do you agree or disagree that Kerry has fought? Do you agree that the man he has admired most fought? Since Kerry experienced war and Bush hasn't, who has the more realistic outlook on what war is about? Don't try to divert things with an easy shot at JFK.
BTW, I do very much like your play on my handle. Zin-monster! Awesome!
/Zin
Kerry did serve in Vietnam and was in combat. Those to things I agree to. Therefore, he should have the Vietnamese firewatch ribbon, the US firewatch ribbon and the combat action ribbon.
JFK fought- but- they didn't know whether to court martial him or give him a medal in regards to his PT boat being cut in 2.
Combat action does not necessarily produce better Presidents. Look at Johnson!!! And Kennedy's tactical blunder of not giving the Bay of Pigs freedom fighters air cover is something that we are paying for to this day. Castro would have been a footnote in Cuba's history.