Ask the Iraqis

per:  http://babel.altavista.com/tr?urltext=

What a total disaster.

but does not want to even mention the suffering here at home. How about some of that footage of folks jumping out of the WTC. How about the bodies impaled on street signs where they landed?

Gee, seems the left can't remember that stuff. If the the right show the photos, they are "politicizing" the victims!! What a pack of hypocrits...

Here's another link for you, which might help explain the fact that bad bews is all you see out of Iraq.

Ich sagte den: "Well done Mr. Puck! the useful idiots react as hoped."

I thought the right believed in Jesus...you know, that guy who introduced the idea of loving your neighbor as yourself...being non-judgemental...caring about the least among us...forgiveness...love...turning the other cheek...and spoke against greed and selfishness...

The right wing has either forgotten this stuff or does not believe it...

Have I mentioned the word hipocracy lately?

-- Modified on 8/1/2005 9:23:06 PM

follow this link. look at the hatred. the utter disaster of it all.

if you're going to mention it over and over, at least learn to spell it correctly.

Monsignor Rabban al Qas, Chaldean bishop of Amadiyah and Arbil, was recently asked by a foreign interviewer whether there is any good news coming out of Iraq:

“Twenty-three Iraqis are killed every day in Iraq. Nearly two years after the fall of Saddam Hussein, there is no security as yet. Is there still hope in Iraq?” To which Monsignor al Qas replied:

"What the media portray is true: explosions, killings, attacks. But if you see how much order, discipline, transport, displacements, and work have improved, there is a change for the better compared to one or two years ago. Now people understand there is a government, the structure of a new state. Thousands and thousands of allied and Iraqi soldiers are present. There is a constitution which is being drawn up, laws are being enacted.

The presence of authority is recognised. This was not the case before. And Al-Qaeda integralists and terrorists coming from abroad seek to penetrate Iraq precisely to destroy the beginnings of this social organization."

-- Modified on 8/1/2005 10:40:40 PM

Please explain to us all what the WTC has to do with the war in Iraq.

Yes Snowman you are so right. I have expressed the same feelings before for our support for our troops in the field of battle, they are all heros to me.  What I don't support is the idiot who lied to put them in harms way. Remember there were NO WMD"s.
I also cannot stand anyone who degrades any of our soldiers. People who do are the real Anti-Americans and are enemies of this country. To say they are unpatriotic would be an understatement. Let me give you an example.
Remember the 2004 election? Now John Kerry is not the brightest star in the sky. We all know that. But what he is is an American. A patriot who served his country in Viet Nam. Ans who was decorated for his service and courage under enemy fire. The US Army gave him those medals.
Now we have the scum-bag Bush who can't even fulfil his duty in the Air Force Reserve who creates an organization called "The Swift Boat Monkeys" who degrade this man who is a proven hero
and villify before the entire country. This truly Un-American and borders on treason. Thank You

I would suggest you do some more reading of the Good Book. The fate of many is worse than what is in that video. Would you now like to call Jesus inhumane???

Like I pointed out earlier, the point here is that while innocent people do get hurt in War, sometimes it is neccessary to stop a greater evil.

Based on your train of thought, Germany would still be burning Jews because an innocent bystander might get hurt if we tried to stop them!! Hell of a world you are painting there.

You absoletely praise the troops which I totally agree with, but then trash Bush and praise Kerry.

Perhaps you could explain why the military vote was so OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of Bush. Personally, I believe the folks in uniform are better fit to decide who they would like as their C-in-C than you are.

One other thing I do not understand is if you have all this respect for the Military as you proclaim, how can you back ANY party that tried to deny them the right to vote in 2000?

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion. But lets get the facts straight.  
First, Kerry was in the Navy, not the Army.  Second,as to his service in Viet Nam, I for one, will give him the benefit of the doubt, however, as a vet, I have to raise eye brows when Mr Kerry received the purple hearts in that short a period of time.  Also, when he writes the narrative for his own award, that is a big red flag.  That said, just as I give him credit for his service, I also hold him accountable for what he did after he left active duty but was still in the Reserves.  Going to Paris and meeting with the the Communist Delegation and then returning and supporting their position during wartime is by any definition aiding and abetting the enemy in time of war.  It is not disputeable that he testified before congress upon his return to the US;
"I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned."

The swift boat veterans were hardly a creation of "the scum-bag" Bush as you put it.  I hope you can understand how someone who fought over there might be a little upset with Mr Kerry for his conduct after he returned from Viet Nam.
As for your assertion that President Bush could not fulfil his duty in the reserves, Bush more than fulfilled the requirements of his service and more than met his obligations for flight time.  He was a pilot trained and rated for a type of aircraft that did not deploy to South Viet Nam. At the time he was finishing his service in the Reserves, the Air Force was drawing down strength in pilots so it is not at all unusual that in his last year, he did not take a flight physical as he was no longer on flight status.  Since you bring up the charge of treason try squaring Kerry's conduct in Paris and subsequently in the US with Article 104 of the UCMJ.  It can't be done if you are the least bit honest.

-- Modified on 8/3/2005 1:56:49 AM

The only saying of Jesus that properly depicts the functioning of the Bush administration is this....
"If the blind lead the blind they shall both fall into a ditch."

Chimpy skipped his physical because he was high on cocaine.

We declared a war on TERROR, not just al'quida. Saddam paided 10K to the family of suicide bombers so that pretty much shows he supported terror.

In addition, while not collaborating with Al'quida, there were contacts between them and Iraq (See the 9/11 report). With this contact, Saddams ability to produce chemical weapons and his toying with inspectors for years so that there was no real way to monitor him, he presented a clear and present danger..

CASE CLOSED!!!

Al Gore and the Dem congress followed Bill, and look where they all wound up, out of office or in the minority

So, are you going to start saying something different now?   >;-o

hunky dory. Just look at Lebanon.

"About 50 U.S. service members were killed in Iraq in July -- at least 16 in the past week. According to American military figures, insurgents attacked U.S. and coalition forces an average of 68 times a day during the month. By comparison, the average daily rate of attacks for July last year was 47. Since the announcement of the new Iraqi government on April 28, more than 2,100 Iraqis -- most of them civilians -- have been killed, according to an Associated Press count. The actual figure is likely much higher."

Could you now give me a link to a story about someone giving a kid a Chiclet to counter this please?

-- Modified on 8/4/2005 6:07:33 PM

That they were funded by Conservatives is not in question nor has it been denied, but the backgrounds of the members of the swiftboat veterans are in fact guys who served with Kerry in Viet Nam.  The only response was the juvenile  come back from Jeremy Bender.  As for Bush being high on cocaine, I guess I will have to defer to Jeremy's expertise in the area and await his proof of the allegation.   Other than name calling, is there anyone who disputes the facts of Kerry's conduct?  Anybody.... Bueller...Bueller.

Yes the deaths are tragic, but NEWS FLASH, some REAL good is being accomplished over there, but I could really care less if you are sharp enough to pick up on that fact.

Yes, I do hate the fact that we have lost 1800 in the span of 2 years, but there is an area where we have MUCH higher casulty rates, the US ROAD SYSTEM.

There were 42,643 car accident deaths last year!! So it seems you might be safer in Iraq then behind the wheel of your car.

One last point, what I am saying is true, and you calling it BS does not make it so, so how about you step up with some REAL intellectual arguments and go tell your mom abbout your "feelings"

repudiate their substance. Many of the people that were part of this smear vouched for Kerry's service record in the past and some even signed the documents that awarded him these medals. They were either liars then or liars now but they are still liars. Click the link and learn something.

The most potentially damning accusation in the ad concerns the the best-known episode of Mr. Kerry's service, in which he saved the life of Jim Rassmann after the Special Forces officer was blown off Mr. Kerry's Swift boat by a mine explosion. Three people quoted in the ad, all of whom say they were present that day, March 13, 1969, assert that Mr. Kerry ordered his craft to flee the danger and turned around to rescue Mr. Rassmann only after the shooting stopped. "John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star . . . I know, I was there, I saw what happened," says Van O'Dell, a retired Navy enlisted man. "His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day," says Jack Chenoweth, who commanded a different Swift boat. "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," says Larry Thurlow, another Swift boat commander.

If accurate, this would demolish a central part of the picture of Mr. Kerry as Vietnam hero. But the weight of the evidence supports Mr. Kerry. Mr. Rassmann, having had no contact with Mr. Kerry for the previous 35 years, came forward during the primaries to tell the story of how Mr. Kerry, braving enemy fire and with an injured arm, pulled him back on board. "John came up to the bow, and I thought he was going to get killed because he was so exposed," Mr. Rassmann recalled. Other surviving crew mates corroborate that account. "I was there," crew mate Del Sandusky told CNN. "I saw the bullets skimming across the water. I saw the firefight gun flashes from the jungle. I know the firefight and the ambush we were in." Another crew mate, James Wasser, told ABC: "What boat were you riding on? Because you weren't there -- we were."

It's also relevant to know who's underwriting this advertising campaign. The biggest single donor so far to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth isn't a Swift boat veteran but one of the leading Republican donors in Texas. Houston builder Bob J. Perry gave the group $100,000, accounting for the bulk of the $158,000 in receipts it has reported. It's fair to ask whether truth is at the top of this group's agenda.

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at math. There are about 140,000 troops in Iraq. 1800 deaths is the equivalent of 3,000,000 traffic deaths per year. My guess is that if traffic fatality rates were that high, we might consider banning cars.

It is pretty funny that your call for a REAL intellectual argument will not include simple logic and math.

percentages, just body count, so I left my argument at that.

BTW, before you start saying republicans are bad with math, perhaps you can teach some of our colleges on the left how to count electoral votes. I can only attribute their failures in math to keep claiming the GWB lost...

And yet, while still a naval reserve officer, Kerry goes to Paris to meet with the Viet Cong delegation.  Hmmmm, a serving officer, on his own intitiative goes to meet with the delegation of an enemy and comes home parroting the 8 points that the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese demanded to agree to a peace deal.  Sounds a lot like treason to me.  I notice you don't even deal with that do you?

construct straw men to chop down. After all, you are the one comparing the casualties in Iraq to fatalities in car accidents in a country of 300+ million people. Logic would dictate that you would have to extrapolate the numbers, otherwise Viet Nam was no big deal and WWII not so much in a world of 4+ billion. The media does not talk percentages because it would be in bad taste and would only serve to minimize the sacrifice that these men and women in the military have made. Thank you for clearly demonstarting the cavalier attitude that the chickenhawks of the Republican Party hold towards our people in uniform.

who cares if Saddam gases his own people and pays 10K as a reward for suicide bombers. Then plays cat and mouse with the US for 12 years.

With attidudes like yours, no one would do crap about evil and Hitler would still be burning Jews in concentration camps...

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing"...
Pretty simple concept, I would suggest you try to learn more from history instead of thinking you are so smart there is nothing it can teach you....

BTW, at least the REPUBLICAN party let's the military vote!!! Remember 2000 (Oh yeah, that is history and it can't teach you a thing!!)

Kerry made no secret of his trip to Paris, France, in the summer of 1970, either at the time or since. He even spoke about it during testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971...

"I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government," Kerry told the committee, referring to the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong delegations by their formal names...

Kerry has told biographers and reporters that his 1970 trip to Paris was a fact-finding mission to the protracted and often stalemated peace talks.

As for the swift boat group's allegation that Kerry met with the enemy, Karnow said, "Half the Washington press corps met with the enemy. We went to dinner with the enemy -- to get information. American officials certainly met with the enemy in the course of the talks."

You may not agree with his mission ,but it was hardly treason.

either treason of the highest order, or incompetence of biblical proportions. Take your pick.

Please tell me you are kidding...seriously!!

He was of the conviction the war was not in the best interest of this country, a viewpoint ultimately shared by the leadership of this country.  He could have joined a National Guard Unit flying an obselete aircraft and opted out of serving overseas.  He could have spent his time involved in more self-indulgent activities like using drugs and driving while intoxicated.
I can see people backing GWB based on shared points of view, but GWB pales in comparison at this point in time.  People can't even agree to where he was, let alone what he was doing!

"He was of the conviction the war was not in the best interest of this country, a viewpoint ultimately shared by the leadership of this country. "

Most traitors have the courage of their convictions.  It was, is, and will remain TREASON regardless of how you spin it.  His "convictions" were detrimental to the war effort of this country.  Bash Mr. Bush all  you want, don't excuse treason.

about the Iraqi people and their form of government. Were you supporting Clinton in Haiti or Bosnia? I didn't think so.

Secondly, thanks to that great liberal FDR we do not have to worry about Hitler anymore. What great wars have you Republicans won? Grenada? HA! HA! That was a good one.

Thirdly, your comment about letting the military vote is so dumb I won't waste time on it. That's just your kool-aide talking. And I'm sure that the military would not appreciate your screw the troops vs my supposed screw the world argument. What did they ever do to you that you hate them so much and don't care if they die? You are highly offensive.

FDR fighting the war, Harry Truman having the guts to drop the bomb. Kenndey being smart enough to know that the best way to increase revenues into the treasury was to cut taxes.

The problem is now the party is a former shell of itself. It has moved SO far out of the mainstream the only way a democrat can try to get elected is to pretend to be conservative.

The problem with the democratic party is that it went from the party representing the working man to the party that represents the man who doesn't want to work...

Oh, and regarding Somalia, you just NAILED the difference between the old and new democrats, FDR and Truman knew how to conduct a fight, Clinton tucked tail and ran the first time we were hit. That's why the people voted for GWB, at least if we take casulaties we stay and finish the job!!

now if they would only count and/or not throw away the democratic  counties in Florida & Ohio, that would be nice......See when you have Katherine Harris (FL) & Ken Blackwell (Ohio) running things in the respective states, kinda hard to trust the accuracy & credibility of the vote.........

to those anti-troop Republicans who pressured him to get out of Somalia. In that incident he reminded me too much of Reagan bailing out of Lebanon

why can't you back the job getting done this time?

Can you say "hypocrite"?

Time to grow up and choose a size. It's time people realized that inaction actually is a course of action. He was still killing his own people, but I guess your attitide is screw them? That would pretty much be the result with your no action solution...

and reason with me a bit.

It's a tossup who killed more innocent Iraqis over comparable timeframes, Saddam or the US. Actually, I don't think Saddam could claim over 100,000 victims inside of two years at any point in his despotic rule.
Please refer back to statements (well publicized) by the Bush flunkies (Rice and Powell) regarding Iraq pre-9/11. They repeatedly stated that Saddam was contained, with no WMD potential - the result of Clinton administration policies. It wasn't until a group of sub-humans from Saudi Arabia attacked us that they changed the tune and went after a nation that had noting to do with it.
Let me repeat that: a nation that had nothing to do with it.
Now you may begin to jabber about bounties paid to suicide bombers and other distractions. Hey, just to be different, why don't you throw in the Runaway Bride? She was a convenient distraction for a while.

while Bush has changed his rationale several times which indicates to me that he has been lying. You may not have a problem being lied to but I do. I do not trust his motives, I see that he has no plan and never did. The other thing is that Clinton's plan did not call for occupation of a soveriegn nation and I think that occupation requires some kind of security threat to the U.S.

Nice quote.
"What the media portray is true: explosions, killings, attacks. But if you see how much order, discipline, transport, displacements, and work have improved, there is a change for the better compared to one or two years ago."
What's it like compared to the day before we invaded?
Estimates range betwen 100,000 and 200,000 Iraqi men, women and children civilians killed since we 'liberated' them. What's the total Saddam killed in the same time period before the war?
The torture and rape rooms Hannity is so obsessed with are still there - just under new management.
It's such a stirring exercise in Democracy - how many of you right wingers would be willing to live there?

hypocrite too. How does the Kool-aid help you spin this one?

"The Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned during the transition due to end in four months, according to U.S. officials in Washington and Baghdad.

The United States no longer expects to see a model new democracy, a self-supporting oil industry or a society in which the majority of people are free from serious security or economic challenges, U.S. officials say."

we wound up with Terrorists attacking New York. It was Clinton's weakness and cut and run attitude that inspred Osama because he believed we would cut and run once we had suffered some casualties...

Kind of like you seem to want to do now, Hmmm....

when we first passed our constitution, a black man was counted as 3/5 of a person. These things take time. Perhaps you need to get out of your "instant gratification" mode.

saddam has killed mroe EASILY, so your homework.

As far as pre-9/11, if you haven;t noticed. the rules chnaged after that day. The rest of the country figured that out, so why don't you join us.

The attack on Iraq doesn't have s**t do do wit 9/11. No one ever said Iraq did have anything to do with it. It is part of the war on terror, go back and look at the doctrine. If you haven;t figured it out by now, I don;t have time to teach you here.

BTW, glad to know you have no problem with saddam paying suicide bombers, guess that let's us all know how strong you oppose terrorism...