Guess what else happened this week? The first Republican debate for President of the United States. Seems like it would be a big deal normally. I guess nobody noticed. For those who did notice, Ron Paul proposed legalizing heroin, and everyone at the debate said Herman Cain won. Which leads Willy to wonder, who in the flying fuck is Herman Cain? Doesn't he sound like a supervillain in a Spiderman comic? You know what else also happened this week? The GOP decided to give up on privatizing Medicare. Cue the applause.

-- Modified on 5/7/2011 6:51:29 AM

Charles Foster Kane !---------

Herman Cain because he is black? You don't like him because he is a black conservative? There are a couple out there, not many but a few. The few times I've listened to him he doesn't talk about social issues, which is a good thing, because that shit turns me off in a heartbeat. His focus is purely on the economy. He at least has private sector experience, which is something you can't say about 99% of the politicians out there today. Plus the fact he didn't go to Harvard or Yale, he doesn't have a law degree, not in academia, and not a life long civil servant.

I'm not endorsing him. But remember, how many people knew Barack Obama in 2006 when he declared his candidacy? Get enough money, put together some great sound bytes, and get on Oprah, and voila.

Jesus, now you sound like some stupid pc liberal ! I was kidding & race didn't enter into my thread at all ! Tho I'm not fond of "clueless businessmen" ( IE Donald Trump ) getting into politics where they haven't any fucking idea what they're talking abnout.

Jeez, Croix, I thought you were one of the "smart board conservatives" ----------:

I think we all agree that Donald Trump is a buffoon, and I haven't figured out if that is a comb over, toupee, or a dead squirrel on his head. Nevertheless, his campaign is done. But the unfortunate thing is the system is gamed to career politicians, which include lawyers, life long civil servants, or academia from Ivy League schools, irrespective of their political ideology.

Would you feel different if a Stephen Jobs, Warren Buffett, or Jack Welch ran for public office? Trust me, the system generally doesn't allow for outsiders. Look what happened to Meg Whitman? Once Gloria Allred and the California unions uncovered the so-called illegal alien working for Whitman, it was game, set, match.

Look at the comments by various factions of the liberal base, including the NAACP, Urban League and others about Powell and Rice. If you're a black and conservative, well somehow you have been branded as a traitor.

He claimed President George Bush Sr. tried to destroy Perot's campaign in 92, by disrupting his daughter's wedding. That's why he momentarily quit the campaign in '92 ( see link below ) People didn't have to label Perot as paranoid-------he WAS paranoid ! Why he could never win an election.

As for your slobbbering praise for our only senile President, unlike our brave Navy seals, pic below shows what kind of military man you are, BM------

-- Modified on 5/7/2011 12:20:41 PM

incurred massive budget deficits, produced the greatest disparity between rich & poor this country has ever seen & "turned tail" after '83 Beirut Barracks bombing, where nearly 300 Marines were killed. That incident gave psychos such as OBL the impetus to strike against U.S interests.

Btw, you DO know that Barack Obama, a Democratic President, had OBL executed/assassinated last week, didn't you ?

But, then again, BM, I would expect nothing less from a "RR cultist" such as yourself.

-- Modified on 5/7/2011 2:23:39 PM

as for Reagan, count me as one of his fans as well. If that makes me a "Reagan cultist" so be it.

Perot OTOH despite all the good he ever did, did have a "nutjob" side of him. He had me pulling for him until he started going all "mein" on us. lol

As for RR , for the reasons I've outlined, thought he was a lousy POTUS. But, then again, I thought Carter was a lousy POTUS also.

Ahhhh, the perils of being P&R's most "objective
indy poster"--------

The rest of the post is of course a copy and paste.

It is intellectually dishonest to plagarize other people's words without giving credit.

Isn't running government a different (I hate to use this word for this, but...) skill than running a business?

and not "everyone" fucks with him over it. There are only a few of us who realize exactly how fucking stupid the guy really is. I also gather you weren't here a year or two back when Trannyboy was the worst troll on this board, maybe of all time.

Sorry, but xfean is always going to be "Trannyboy" to me, unless and until someone comes up with a more derisive and fitting name for him.

He was a single-issue candidate who didn't even understand the single issue he flapped on about. Nor did he have a clue as to how NAFTA actually operated. That "great sucking sound" was not jobs fleeing to Mexico - it was Perot's brains fleeing out through his gigantic ears.

While he had many notable accomplishments early in his life, he later went off the bend. And he was a damn racist to boot.

And Pri, a better example than Reagan of "senility" would be Perot's choice for running mate in '92 -- Stockdale.

He was being groomed for a presidential run right from the very start

What I want to know is, who was doing the grooming? Who was pulling the strings? That would be very telling as to what makes him tick, and just why he was selected for the 'grooming'.

And from what my sources say, Leon Panetta should be getting more of the credit for the OBL situation. It was his plan from the gitgo. Obama was a reluctant co-respondent until he made the last minute decision to deploy SEAL Team 6. But, I have to say, he made the correct decision....and you have no fucking idea how difficult it is for me to type those words, lol.

pria, I guess that means you didn't care much for the candidacy of George Wallace, and Curtis LeMay in their run for the top two spots in politics. LMFAO.

Btw, you can count me in the group of Ronald Reagan fans. He made mistakes, as all POTUS's do, but for me, he was DA MAN.

Oh, and please explain exactly how RR 'turned tail' concerning the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing. I must have slept through that class.  

-- Modified on 5/7/2011 6:18:40 PM

"gamed" for career politicians and that is exactly what Herman Cain was alluding to. Any outsider i.e. outside of any Ivy league school degree, lawyer etc is branded with a label as unfit for duty through character assassinations. It has nothing to do with race.

Ross Perot perhaps had the best political TV commercials in the history of campaigns. He spoke in plain language we all could understand with charts and explained the economics of deficits to all of us. Instead of being admired and respected for the issues all of us Americans should stand up for; Ross Perot and his running mate ADMIRAL Stockdale were ridiculed and their families were attacked. The liberals do it today, with Meg Whitman, Donald Trump, Herman Cain et al. Admiral Stockdale was an American hero and still pisses me off the bullshit the liberals slung at him.

The last great President came from outside the Ivy League from an old Bible college. I still remember even though I was in my teens the off base comments they made about President Reagan when he was campaigning in 1980. Liberals and the political establishment are always putting labels on people who are outsiders.

Hey what about the deal Pac-12 made? Larry Scott is awesome. Here is hoping we go back to a traditional Pac-12 vs Big Ten Rose Bowl match-up. Who needs the BCS?

"Ahhhh, the perils of being P&R's most "objective indy poster".

LMFAO....Are you on crack, or speed?

that tough for you to comprehend ?

steele is a joke

steele laughs at jokes about afican americans

this new guy the neocons or pushing,who knows about him

Herman Cain (born December 13, 1945) is an American newspaper columnist, businessman, political activist, and radio talk-show host from Georgia. He is best known as the former chairman and CEO of Godfather's Pizza. He is a former deputy chairman (1992–94) and chairman (1995–96) of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. Cain's newspaper column is distributed by North Star Writers Group. He currently lives in the Atlanta suburbs.

In January 2011, Cain announced he had formed an exploratory committee for a potential candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012.[

Posted By: Priapus53

Jesus, now you sound like some stupid pc liberal ! I was kidding & race didn't enter into my thread at all ! Tho I'm not fond of "clueless businessmen" ( IE Donald Trump ) getting into politics where they haven't any fucking idea what they're talking abnout.

Jeez, Croix, I thought you were one of the "smart board conservatives" ----------:

resort to name-calling rather than discuss substantive issues. By calling Perot "nuts" and former President Reagan "senile" who distract from salient issues that are of higher importance.

Ross Perot outlined very well the dangers of deficit spending. Without Ross Perot in the 1992 Presidential election I doubt if both the Republican and Democratic parties would have enacted on policies to reduce deficit spending in the nineties such as ending welfare etc. Ross Perot is an American who deserves praise for his service to our country, for founding a company that produced thousands of good paying jobs and great products, for being a Patsy Cline fan,  and for getting his kidnapped employees out of Iran. President Carter wished he could be so successful.

President Reagan pushed forth policies than enabled our military to be the best. After the Carter Adminstration our military was weak and morale low. Our economy was in the tank. President Reagan pushed forth programs such as stealth technology and more training on military personnel. The Navy Seals were successful last week from the decades of hard work, bloody and dirty work and programs initiated decades ago. A Navy Seal was not produced overnight. There is cast of thousands, you have no idea what it takes to be successful.

The Star War programs, liberals lambasted produced GPS technologies. It takes years to produce a Navy Seal. It doesn't just happen overnight. So go ahead and name call. All I know this country should be grateful that men with the vision such as Ross Perot and President Reagan is what makes this country great. IN the middle of the night when trouble calls, who you gonna call? Sure ain't no liberal.



-- Modified on 5/7/2011 2:41:03 PM

Yes, Reagan did rebuild the military and was especially good in his dealings with the Soviet Union, perhaps the most creative work of his terms.  But, according to his own son, by the end of his second term he was beginning his sad decline with  Alzheimers.  You can choose to disblieve Ron, Jr., but based on observation it's fairly likely.  Still, just blanket calling him "senile" goes a bit far.
Perot, too, did lots of admirable things, but the incident of the wedding was pretty wack-o.  And I like Patsy Cline, too.
As for Star Wars and GPS, that's where you lose me.  First of all, Star Wars still doesn't work.  Second, GPS is based on navigational satellites that would exist without Star Wars.  GPS is not even that high-tech, just computerized triangulation of satellite signals the same is LORAN except space-based.
As far as who ya gonna call on in the middle of the night?  After last weekend, I'll settle for Barack.  Guess that means he's become a conservative.

The Israelis of course.
Don't they supposedly control everything in the US?


-- Modified on 5/7/2011 10:42:21 PM

policies. Guatananamo, prosecuting the war on terror as a military action, Invasion of AfghaniStan, the development of military programs such as language training etc. I will give Barack his due, he made the decision to go after OBL. Here is the irony of so called liberal Democrats such as Kennedy and Obama. Labels don't mean shit. Under President Kennedy, communism encountered a formidable foe. It was under his adminstration the Cold War was expanded to Vietnam. He even tried to invade Cuba. Under Truman we had the Korean War and start of the CIA. Under Obama we have engaged in Libya and now Pakistan. An agrument could be made President OBama is expanding the War on Terror. We are winning and we as Americans we should be grateful.

As far President Reagan having Alzheimers, well God Bless him.

O' Connor to the United sTATES SUPREME Court. Under President Reagan our nation was ebullient and stood proud. Them were dark days during the Iran hostage crisis, high inflation, high unemployment, and the Communists kicking our ass all over the world. If President Reagan would have said: "Soldiers we are marching to hell". My only reply would have been, how soon can we start, Mr. President?

I miss President Reagan.

-- Modified on 5/7/2011 3:12:59 PM

Who cares who Xfean likes to fuck ?Its none of our business and very juvenile the way everyone makes fun of him for that.

Loved Reagan but not a Sandra Day O'Connor fan.  She is the classic example of a Supreme Court Judge who slowly began to make decisions based on her personal beliefs and not what the Constitution dictated.  The power of that position is so great you need to be a truly humble person.

are you from? Put a lawyer in front of suspect and you'll receive is bullshit and more delays. The time to get good intelligence data is before they acquire lawyers. Look I am not going to pretend I know intelligence gathering ( I was only a buck Sargeant) , it's not my field and besides most of the techniques is classified. Which it should be. However, what I do know is that every successful mission requires thousands of hours and hours of hard work, planning, preparation etc.

(2) Obama said he would withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan and said preemptive warfare was wrong. So what do you call Libya? A place for soldiers and sailors to get some R and R.

(3) I believe in the Vietnam War and the mission. It's the politicians who screwed it up. Two million Cambodians are dead from the United States Congress decision to abandon our allies and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Communist was a real threat my friend. Thank a Vietnam Veteran for keeping our freedoms instead of diminishing their sacrifices.

(4) Classic. Listen buddy I got news for you. The Pentagon has plans to invade Mexico, perhaps even Canada. The Department of Defense (which by the way really should go back to being referred to as Department of War) has contingencies plans for thousands of scenarios. Planning for war with an adversary does not necessarily mean we will take action. We were planning for war with Iraq back in the nineties under the Clinton adminstration. Don't blame General Eisenhower for the Bay of Pigs fiasco. It is up to the Commander-in-Chief to make the decision which plan the military executes.

These are the "facts" the way I see them:
1)  It is a myth that the waterboarding of KSM produced anything that led to Osama.  He lied after waterboarding.  The good info came from other interrogations done without "enhanced" techhniques.  What Bush deserves credit for is funding the SEALs and other Special Ops assets.
2) Obama said when he was a candidate he would send more troops to Afghanistan.  Then he did it.  You could look it up.
3) Yes, Kennedy sent the first advisors to Viet Nam.  It was a mistake that Johnson more than doubled down on.  Is there anyone on the planet who really thinks the Viet Nam war was a good idea? It was based on Ike's "domino theory," which history has proven wrong.
4)  Yes, Kennedy let the Cuban invasion go forward.  That worked really well, didn't it?  Last time I checked, Castro was still in power there. And in fact, the invasion had been planned by the CIA under Eisenhower. Kennedy inherited it and decided to go forward with it.  You could look it up.
As for the rest, I agree with you.

-- Modified on 5/7/2011 11:01:38 PM

I'll agree with you about Justice O'Connor.  She was a really good one, though I think RR believed she'd be more conservative than she turned out.

Wall Street fiasco? Trillions of dollars have been stolen. Bank of America, Goldman Sachs pay the lowest taxes, and even have been receipants of taxpayer money. venerable firms such as Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns et al who survived the great depression all went bankrupt. What has Obama done, absolutely nothing. No one has gone to jail.

You want to know who pulls Obama's strings, it's the financiers on wall street.

Thanks zisk. You just keep on making me laugh.

and Larry Scott and PAC-12 just lapped the SEC and Big 10 with one helluva TV contract. Utah and Colorado just won the lottery by joining the conference. Scott has done a phenomenal job as commissioner.

Although I enjoyed the TCU/Wisconsin Rose Bowl game, it's not the same. Like you, I'm old school. And there is not a bowl game that comes even close to the Rose Bowl. Just look what happened with the Fiesta Bowl crap.

Now if we can just keep you Pacific NW boys out of our SoCal recruiting backyard. Have you seen the new ASU uniforms? Unreal!

So let's start with where we agree.
4) You are completely right to point out there are lots of plans and that's all they are.  Kennedy didn't have to push the button on the Bay of Pigs and, when he did, he owned it.  Point taken.
As for the others:
1) I did not say interrogations don't produce good intel.  I said waterboarding didn't in the case of KSM.  In fact, I said the good intel came from standard interrogation techniques,  not the "enhanced" kind.  And I didn't just make up my position. I've read a great deal on the subject by professionals at interrogation.  Every one I read said techniques like waterboarding are unreliable because the subject will say anything to get the torture to stop.  Sounds like that's what happened with KSL, too, because all he gave his tormentors was a lie re the courier.
2) You are just flat-out wrong that Obama said he'd withdraw from Afghanistan.  I have posted stories on this board in recent weeks referencing campaign statements in which he said very clearly that the Afghan war was the one that should have been fought, was neglected and would be reinforced if he became President.  I will find and attach an article proving this to a separate post.
3) Thank you for your service in Viet Nam.  I lost friends there and know others who served.  I don't "diminish" anyone's sacrifice. But blinding myself to reality honors no one either.  And if you think it was a war that should have been fought, you are in the minority.  We went there because JFK and LBJ believed in the "domino theory," in which Ike said that if one SE Asian country fell, the rest would fall like dominoes.  Yes, the war was mis-managed and as a result we lost any chance at victory (if there was any chance, which I personally doubt.  Try reading "A Bright, Shining Lie.") Despite that, after S. Viet Nam fell, Thailand, Singapore and Burma remained free.  Yes, Cambodia fell, but that was largely because of the illegal invaision of Cambodia by Nixon and Kissinger.  After that, the Sihanouk government lost all credbility and the until-then weak Khmer Rouge grew until they were able to take over the government and perpetrate genocide.  Anyway, the fall of Cambodia was not connected to the fall of South Viet Nam.  The two regimes hated each other and even fought a brief war against each other after they took power.  Perhaps you don't recall that.
I don't really expect you to change your mind as a result of this, but since you at least were willing to respectfully debate these issues, I felt I owed you a respectful response.

Here's a link to an op ed article Obama wrote for the NY Times on July 14, 2008 in which he calls for "at least" two more brigades to be sent to Afghanistan.  He sent a lot more than that but do you really want to criticize him for listening to the military? He is also following his campaign pledge to have all combat troops out of Iraq.  And, yes, I know the agreement under which the troops are being withdrawn from Iraq is one negotiated under Bush.  I give credit to Bush at least that the surge was an important element in stabilizing the situation in Iraq.  I hope you can at least see both sides of the coin here.

who had heard of BHO - outside of of Chicago and those in Illinois cemetaries 6 years ago??

the Persian Gulf War 20 years ago today. I did however did serve with Vietnam Veterans. Their distinguished service and uncommon valor is something I could wish I had.

Respectfully, your view of the Vietnam War is a limited prism on a wide spectrum of American History. A history rattled with raw emotions I will not discuss in this thread.

Well, thank you for your service in the Gulf War.  I was cheering you on and I admire Pres. Bush, Sr., to this day for putting together a real coalition.  He was wrongly condemned for not going all the way to Baghdad and I think in light of subsequent events his wisdom has been proven.
I hope you read the attachment re Obama's policy in Afghanistan.  While we can disagree about Viet Nam, there really is no debate about this one.
Viet Nam will remain a sore spot long after we're all dead.  There is no way to "win" an argument about it.  I honor the sacrifice of my friends and everyone who fought and died there.  I was fortunate to avoid it but did serve elsewhere in a capacity that put me in some danger.  Not like that of a front-line combatant in Nam but more than most in a supporting role over there.  That's not for sharing on a board like this.