Parental responsibility absent in the country except for a small percentage. There are millions of people who are married without knowing the meaning of marriage. There are million more parents without knowing what it takes to be a good parent.
If the parents don't know their son brought guns and ammo to the house, they are not parents.
It is similar to 9/11 and New York. They were affected much more than the rest of the country. Well the same can be said for Tucson and in fact, Arizona.
To help everyone understand, Tucson is just 1 1/2 hours south of Phoenix and has 1 million people HOWEVER it is really a "small" town where everyone knows everyone.
The evidence is becoming clear that Nutso wasn't influenced by Tea Baggers, Rush, Palin, Bush or any of the other bete noirs of the left. He as just a nut case.
According to his friend, Nutso didn't watch TV or the news, or listen to talk radio, or take sides in politics.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/jared-loughners-friend-says-suspect-did-not-watch-tv-disliked-the-news_b48040
This follow statements of others who knew him.
Funny, when the guy tried to blow up Times Square, the first thing the Mayor said was maybe it is someone from the Tea Party. After jumping there, when it turned out the guy was Moslem, everyone said we shouldn't jump to conlcusions. Maybe it was because his house was in foreclosure. (It was in foreclosure because he took off for a few months to train in Pakistan. But don't jump to conclusions from that.)
When the guy in Ft Hood stood on a table and fired shots, shouting, "Allah is great," and he had contacts with a radical cleric in Yemen, all the media said we shouldn't jump to conlcusions. It is hared to know what motivates people.
Before anyone knew who this guy was, 1,000 voices said, "Tea Baggers, Political Rhetoric, Sarah Palin's map with bull's eyes. (Oooooops, it was the Dems that had cross hairs, Palin had cross-hairs.)
Nope, he wasn't influenced by anything. There goes the criminal trial against Palin. There goes the civil trial.
Just a bunch of people who couldn't guess what Fort Hood was about, stating after 2 hours what motivated Nutso.
And worrying about foot-in-mouth disease, especially that big mouth sheriff.
It doesn't matter if they were wrong. Liberals mean never having to say you are sorry.
Even as it comes out he wasn't influenced by talk radio or Palin or Tea Parties, let's see how many reply "I was wrong. Sorry."
They will all hedge and dodge. "IT may not have been Palin, but maybe Beck. Maybe he never saw the cross hairs, but his mother listened to radio."
Wait and see how many say they jumped the gun, but don't hold your breath.
or two, and that will be satisfaction enough for me until next time.
Tombstone, oh, whatever! I guess the Tea Party rhetoric and threats have them running for cover. Are they liberal?
Doesn't matter what you look for or how you spin.
Nutso was not influenced by cross hairs or Rush or Palin or Tea Bags.
Nutso was a political, at best, and liberal, at worst.
He hated George Bush and was against Iraq.
The AZ GOP may be lying low because they were attacked by liars and the media.
BOTTOM LINE IS NUTSO WASN"T TEA PARTY or anything close.
Everything attributing his actions to Tea Party Rhetoric or Palin or what ever was a fiction and a lie.
I said there would be dodging and tap dancing and avoiding the issue. And you did it. Well, you blamed Palin and Co., even saying they could be liable.
Repeat after me. "Wrong."
I was responding to a post addressing how fearful liberals are.
"The AZ GOP may be lying low because they were attacked by liars and the media."
Did you even read the article.
So, if you quote a news story it's not spin, but if I do so, it's spin. Hmmm! Just because you say so??? Hmmm!
To borrow your country's famous "politically correct" phrase so it reads.
Rush: I want Obama to fail and will do whatever needed to do just that.
Palin: If health care law passes, don't retreat, reload! What do you reload, GUNS!
Angle: Public should resort to second amendment solutions to oppose Government. Second Amendment allows people to carry WMD.
I read FBI and CIA are looking in to who gave this terrorist money to buy the killings weapons, ammo and accessories. I guess some very interesting details will come out of it. People are already on the edge making statements in haste.
-- Modified on 1/12/2011 4:34:00 PM
-- Modified on 1/12/2011 4:35:02 PM
And for you to quote Limbaugh and Palin shows just how stupid you are. You fell into the left wing trap just like a million other idiots.
Maybe it would be best to wait for some facts to come in before you jump on MSNBC's bandwagon. You picked a poor example to follow.
The CIA and FBI are involved? No shit Sherlock. That is standard protocol.
I just said that it wouldn't matter if he never saw it, Libs would still say he was influenced.
So what if Rush wanted Obama to fail. The shooter didn''t listen to Rush.
So what if Palin said "reload." he didn't listen to her.
You have a new low in causation. No people are influenced by what they never heard.
And before you tell me that he was one just because he was a murderer, I suggest you get out the DICTIONARY and read what a terrorist IS:
terrorist (noun): subversive, revolutionary, incendiary; rebel
He wasn't sane enough to be subversive. He wasn't logical enough to be revolutionary. The only "incendiary" anything he did was demand an answer to a question that made no sense to anyone except himself. He certainly wasn't a rebel - except to do drugs, and that damaged him on top of all else that was going on in his scrambled noggin.
Marikod was correct about one thing: the word "terrorist" is used far too promiscuously, and in this case, that's NOT a good thing!
From what you write, benlanger, YOU could be classified as a terrorist! Get off of it already!
Once again, I'm not ready to say that the shooter was influenced by anything that Limbaugh, Beck, Palin or the Tea Party members said. But, even though he was a loner, he wasn't isolated. Most of what I've heard about what they've said have come from family members, friends, overhearing people in the grocery store or restaurants, meetings, etc. So, you take what one kid says a presume you know what he heard, and what he was influenced by. Just like what you accuse the liberals of doing.
Now that he is a loner, he isn't infuenced by what Palin or Rush said,but maybe he over heard it from friends and family.
Or the grocery store. Or in a restaurant.
SO no Palin is to blame because someone in a restaurant or his family said something about her that triggered a nut.
And you say my argument is weak.
Are you posting under the influence again? You seem to be losing traction and starting to hydroplane.
This is what I said: "Once again, I'm not ready to say that the shooter was influenced by anything that Limbaugh, Beck, Palin or the Tea Party members said."
The point I was making was that people can hear one another's views without hearing it directly from the source.
This shooter is quite a puzzle. I believe he might be influenced by Herschell Gordon Lewis or Herschel Bernardi. But whether its a double L Hershall or a single L Hershal, I can't say yet. Still working on it.
Quote:
And then, based on no evidence whatsoever, the veteran of 31 years as sheriff expounded on how the shootings were connected to the heightened temperature of today's political rhetoric. In his own prose certain to make Arizona tourism authorities wince, Dupnik said:
Quote:
When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
If, indeed, Sheriff Dupnik is quite certain the climate is so dangerous and Arizona so full of boiling political rhetoric, anger and abundant armed nutjobs stoked by irresponsible media that made his friend Giffords a likely target, why were there no deputies present Saturday or just stopping by the Safeway rally to be seen? The way donut shops and all-night convenience stores are so delighted to have uniformed officers visibly patronizing their place of business routinely.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/01/clarence-dupnik-tucson-shootings-gabrielle-giffords.html
The sheriffs remarks have very likely provided this guy's defense attorney with significant ammunition to defend him at trial and Barry calls the sheriff and thanks him .
-- Modified on 1/12/2011 5:38:27 PM
Thanks for the article.
I think this guy should hang up his holster and start collecting his pension.
If I had one of my best friends gunned downed, along with a bunch of other innocent people, I'd call them the way I saw them also. You are disparaging a man who is sad and sick of what he sees happening to those he cares about. You are disparaging a man who has been elected and re-elected to his job for over 30 years, so the people there must think he's doing a good job, and is a decent person. You are disparaging him because he doesn't see thing the way you see them, but do you see what he sees everyday? Check my link above on how some of the Republican Party officials are leaving their jobs for fear of their, and their family's safety.
Oh, I'm certain the shooter's defense lawyers are so stupid that they really needed Dupnik's words to open their eyes to their defense strategy. Do you know who she defended in the past????
Wow. That is amazing. He attacks with no evidence and you think it is great.
If one of my friends was gunned down, I would be pissed as hell if they immediately focused on the wrong person.
And if GOP are leaving because they are afraid, what does that say about peaceful Dems ?
I think his years of service, which his community seems to endorse, out weights his remarks made under extreme duress, in my book. Making a direct connection to the political climate there, and the reasoning of the shooter was not based in fact, but I cannot dispute his view of the political climate in his county, since I do not see what he sees each day.
Quote:
If someone you loved was murdered in broad daylight by a raving lunatic, how would you want your local law enforcement to proceed? The list of expectations might go something like this:
1. Apprehend the suspect.
2. Prove he did it and find out how and why, by collecting evidence, talking to witnesses, interviewing his friends and family, etc.
3. Spend the whole day in front of any TV cameras that’ll hold still long enough, babbling about how Rush Limbaugh made the guy do it. Three is strike through text .
http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/12/sheriff-dupnik-keeps-shooting-himself-in-the-foot-if-youll-excuse-the-irresponsibly-violent-rhetoric/#ixzz1Asmob9NJ
-- Modified on 1/12/2011 8:41:06 PM
unbiased view and news story along with an American Apparel red thong! Yeh!!!
https://store.dailycaller.com/
In the balance I'll take the voting record of those who elected him sheriff over the last 30 years over that story.
Though, I won't place any bets on whether he could win another election.
Nor, would I place any bets on whether he gives a damn, or not!
-- Modified on 1/12/2011 8:52:05 PM
https://store.dailycaller.com/
In the balance I'll take the voting record of those who elected him sheriff over the last 30 years over that story.
Though, I won't place any bets on whether he could win another election.
Nor, would I place any bets on whether he gives a damn, or not!
-- Modified on 1/12/2011 8:52:05 PM
Palin's website and Rush's latest irresponsible comments are just a click away. Plus he clearly was familiar with the Patriot movement as he rejected any currency except one backed by gold and silver. And he expressly stated that he did not trust the current government because of fabrications and and charged NASA in particular with fabricating space flights.
Finally, I seriously doubt that this guy had any "friends."
In short, it is too early to conclude that this nut was not influenced by some of the other nuts you mentioned.
Quote
Not only is there no evidence that Loughner was impelled to violence by any of those upon whom Paul Krugman, Keith Olbermann, the New York Times, the Tucson sheriff and other rabid partisans are fixated. There is no evidence that he was responding to anything, political or otherwise, outside of his own head.
A climate of hate? This man lived within his very own private climate. "His thoughts were unrelated to anything in our world," said the teacher of Loughner's philosophy class at Pima Community College. "He was very disconnected from reality," said classmate Lydian Ali. "You know how it is when you talk to someone who's mentally ill and they're just not there?" said neighbor Jason Johnson. "It was like he was in his own world."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011106068.html
Okay, he used the internet. Do you have access to the cites he visited?
Do you have any indication he visited Palins or Rush's cites or GOP cites or Tea party cites.
NO. You just imagine it.
He used the internet. You don't mention Daily Koz. He could just use it to look at chicks.
But you imply what you don't know.
mari, could you give us the name of any 12 year-20 year old that does not use the internet regularly. I don't know of any that are not 'living' on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc.
What does the Patriot movement have to do with gold, silver, and currency rejection? You lost me there.
our currency should be backed by gold.
That the shooter knew of this relatively sophisticated point belies the notion that he was apolitical.
I also appreciate that mpst young Americans are internet savvy. That was my very point - the Op seems to have concluded that the shooter did not know of Rush and Palin bc he did not watch TV but the internet would be the most likely source of his news.
In short, as I tried to explain to the OP, we just do not know yet whether he was influenced by these guys.
mari, do you have a problem with the dollar being backed by the gold standard? It was, until, Nixon I believe, changed that. Ever hear of a 'silver certificate' one dollar bill? When in existence, you could go to the bank, turn in a silver certificate dollar, and get that much in actual silver. Had the words 'silver certificate' imprinted across the top of the bill. Illegal to possess them now, except for collectors I think.
You're right...I don't think we'll know much at all, because he's not saying a word to anyone. See how long that lasts.
I wouldn't care if the killer had a signed copy of "Going Rogue" sitting next to the skull on that bizarre alter of his--there would be NO blood on the hands of Sarah Palin.
Libs are looking for any way possible to destroy Sarah because they know she can beat Obama next year.
PTB
his speech. He sounded like he was giving a speech after the Battle of Gettysburg. What's with this healing the political division crap. Obama was not solemn he was condescending. I don't know need his lecturing. Without rushing to conclusions the man who shot Congresswomen Giffords was mentally ill. He was not part of some right-wing conspiracy. I can just see the liberals taking advantage of this situation to diminish second amendment rights.
Spot on about Ft Hood etc.
It was about the victims who died and those that survived. It was about providing healing to the city and the state. You obviously do NOT live here in Arizona where this has had a HUGE impact especially to those in Tucson.
It is similar to 9/11 and New York. They were affected much more than the rest of the country. Well the same can be said for Tucson and in fact, Arizona.
To help everyone understand, Tucson is just 1 1/2 hours south of Phoenix and has 1 million people HOWEVER it is really a "small" town where everyone knows everyone.
Parental responsibility absent in the country except for a small percentage. There are millions of people who are married without knowing the meaning of marriage. There are million more parents without knowing what it takes to be a good parent.
If the parents don't know their son brought guns and ammo to the house, they are not parents.
It is similar to 9/11 and New York. They were affected much more than the rest of the country. Well the same can be said for Tucson and in fact, Arizona.
To help everyone understand, Tucson is just 1 1/2 hours south of Phoenix and has 1 million people HOWEVER it is really a "small" town where everyone knows everyone.
Since the shooter was an adult, your parental responsibility theory is moot.
WTF does marriage have to do with this subject?
Obviously he totally missed my point entirely.
It was about Obama's speech being about healing and caring NOT political period. Not parenting, not marriage, just about his speech and how we here in AZ needed it.
however without divulging my personal life, I am often in Arizona. I have hiked, worked, travelled from the bottom of Grand Canyon, worked in Yuma, Phoenix, the Navajo Nation and explored Kartchner Caverns near Tucson. I have not spent much time in Tucson but I did spend two weeks in the Canyon de Chelly with the Navajos and wolves. Enough of that.
My complaint was against President Obama. I turned him off when in the middle of his speech he said:
"You see, when a tragedy like this strikes, it is part of our nature to demand explanations -- to try to impose some order on the chaos, and make sense out of that which seems senseless. Already we've seen a national conversation commence, not only about the motivations behind these killings, but about everything from the merits of gun safety laws to the adequacy of our mental health systems. Much of this process, of debating what might be done to prevent such tragedies in the future, is an essential ingredient in our exercise of self-government.
But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized -- at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do -- it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds."
Sorry Misty, but that sounded like political speech to me. He began his speech by rattling off the names of the fallen in an obligatory tone, like reading a resume. His speech did not nothing for me to uplift, inspire and most importantly honor the lives who died so tragically.
The Obama went on to say:
"And if, as has been discussed in recent days, their deaths help usher in more civility in our public discourse, let's remember that it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy, but rather because only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to our challenges as a nation, in a way that would make them proud."
This my dear is the President lecturing with his famous unemotional tone. If Obama truly wanted to honor the lives of Christina Taylor Green, Dorothy Morris, Phyllis Schneck, George Morris, Dorwan Stoddard and comfort a nation and more importantly the families and friends who now will miss them he should have given the speech in the White House, without the crowds, stayed out of Arizona and let law enforcement officials do their job.
It was a huge motivator with not only his speech but just him coming out to Tucson was a HUGE motivator and healing for those who live there. I talked with family and friends who LIVE there and were all positive about his visit and speech.
Sorry if it didn't do anything for you BUT it was most important for those who are CLOSELY affected and live there.
And even those here in Phoenix were positively affected. Thanks for VISITING but it is a whole lot different LIVING here.
AND at least I post under my name NOT hiding behind an alias.
upset you. My opinion is just that, only a opinion. Perhaps, Obama inspired those Tucson who lived there, and that is great. All I am saying, as a person living in California, I wonder what was the purpose of his trip and his speech? I guess, to me this whole "healing" stuff is way overrated.
What did touch me, was the decision of Christina Taylor-Green parents to donate her organs to less fortunate children. Actions speak louder than words. Her parents decision to donate her organs speaks of the generosity, compassion and forgiveness most of us including me cannot even imagine. Through the love and awful loss of a child, Christina's parents gave us an example of the way how we should live. Regardless of political opinions, personal tradegies, economic status etc., we should all insure, love and generosity to our fellow human friends. Palin, Obama, Gringich, Pelosi, et al, all they do is talk and talk is cheap.
On another note, you make a salient assertion about aliases. I respect you more than me, because you do not hide behind a alias. Courage is an admirable trait, and on this board, I give you sincere accolades.
I also saw Obama's speech, and I was struck by what I consider his delivery lacking any emotion, involvement, sincerity, and compassion. I know it sounds disrespectful, but it appeared to me that he would prefer to have been on the back nine, instead of trying to bring the country together, and unify our thoughts, after the tragedy in Tucson.
Held 5 days after tragedy (takes time to organize a pep rally, print t-shirts and fliers, schedule 'dignitaries', etc)
During prime time
30+ minute speech
Lots of awkward cheers
Tacky T-shirts Together We Thrive:on back of chairs
Homeland Security Sec
Attorney General
Fliers/color programs
The level of vitriol coming from right wing radio hosts has been unprecedented in recent years, especially after President Obama's election. Curious that the actual attacks and murders have all targeted people on the political center or left, who hold positions unpopular with the right wing.
There have been a slew of catch phrases relating to guns and weaponry coming exactly from people like Palin, Glen Beck, and others and they are more than just metaphors. People who support positions unpopular with the right have had their pictures, home addresses and phone numbers posted on the internet, some have had crosshair figures superimposed on their photo. Get the picture?
People have been showing up armed at opposition political rallies where political figures are slated to appear. In my world, you don't show up armed at a peaceful rally to demonstrate your so called gun rights, you show up armed to either intimidate or shoot someone.
The higher the rhetoric has been ramped, the higher the incidence of actual violence. People who support positions unpopular with the right wing have been threatened, harassed, vandalized, attacked, and killed. Rhetoric was ramped up in the six months prior to the murder of abortion doctor Dr. Tiller, and what do you know, he winds up dead. This is no coincidence.
Spokespeople from the right are careful to not just come straight out and order a killing (however, they just about did that in the case of Dr Tiller), but they will connect just enough dots so that some follower will complete the picture and go out and perpetrate violence. These media hosts cater to low information voters who are easily frightened by their apocalyptic nonsense and more easily influenced to take insane actions.
I understand that the ratings game dictates that the more outrageous you are on the airwaves the more money you make, but we need to draw a line somewhere before they do start ordering killings.
No, folks, that sheriff in Arizona got it right.
To stop the violence you need to stop the hate speech now.
There have been a slew of catch phrases relating to guns and weaponry coming exactly from people like Palin, Glen Beck, and others and they are more than just metaphors. People who support positions unpopular with the right have had their pictures, home addresses and phone numbers posted on the internet, some have had crosshair figures superimposed on their photo. Get the picture?
People have been showing up armed at opposition political rallies where political figures are slated to appear. In my world, you don't show up armed at a peaceful rally to demonstrate your so called gun rights, you show up armed to either intimidate or shoot someone.
The higher the rhetoric has been ramped, the higher the incidence of actual violence. People who support positions unpopular with the right wing have been threatened, harassed, vandalized, attacked, and killed. Rhetoric was ramped up in the six months prior to the murder of abortion doctor Dr. Tiller, and what do you know, he winds up dead. This is no coincidence.
Spokespeople from the right are careful to not just come straight out and order a killing (however, they just about did that in the case of Dr Tiller), but they will connect just enough dots so that some follower will complete the picture and go out and perpetrate violence. These media hosts cater to low information voters who are easily frightened by their apocalyptic nonsense and more easily influenced to take insane actions.
I understand that the ratings game dictates that the more outrageous you are on the airwaves the more money you make, but we need to draw a line somewhere before they do start ordering killings.
No, folks, that sheriff in Arizona got it right.
To stop the violence you need to stop the hate speech now.
When right wing politicians wind up dead as a result of this lame quote which you got from the radio, let me know.
This is not a direct threat, nor an implied one.
Learn the difference first before you go off posting nonsense like that.
Will he then fund the Black Panthers to hang out at the polls?
Is that what actually happened, or what you made up just now?
People vilified by the right wing --have-- been winding up dead.
People vilified by the right wing --have-- been winding up dead.
This man lived within his very own private climate. "His thoughts were unrelated to anything in our world," said the teacher of Loughner's philosophy class at Pima Community College. "He was very disconnected from reality,"
-- Modified on 1/13/2011 1:58:55 PM
Care to name some of these "dead" people. And someone other than the abortionist since that is more of a religious battle than a right-wing, left-wing one.
I can't believe some people are still blaming this tragedy on the right wing media. All of the evidence is pointing in other directions.
While I agree that there is a lot more that we need to know such as FACTS, you liberals are such suckers an imbeciles, following each other off every cliff you can find.
That should have been the end of the story. But things have to have spin don't they Phil? None of people or groups that you mention advocate violence so why the spin Phil? The man was insane Phil.