There have been a few unsubstantiated attacks this election claiming racism.  The most troubling are made on John McCain.  Those defending against those accusations on this board have correctly cited a lack of evidence in the form of statements made or actions taken.

My question to the group is in this day and age, what kind of evidence do we need?  Do we really believe that there are top politicians who would EVER be so stupid as to make an overtly racist statement?  Even if a politician were a raging racist in private, would we expect them to conduct themselves in a PC fashion in public?  Does any politician have the license to be overtly racist in public?

If we believe that politicians are too smart to be overtly racist in public, how then can we tell if they are racist?  Does it matter?  I don't know what the answer to these questions is, but I do have personal feelings.

I'd love to hear other's thoughts.

P.S.  Before I am besieged with a barrage of references to the most overt behaviors to date, I will put out there for all that there have been two congressman who have been far less careful than the rest.

GOP Congressman Geoff Davis called Obama a "boy" saying, "That boy's finger does not need to be on the button."  http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/14/889357.aspx

GOP Congressman Lynn Westmoreland called the Obamas uppity saying, "Just what little I've seen of her and Senator Obama, is that they're a member of an elitist class...that thinks that they're uppity."  http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-04-westmoreland_N.htm

I realize I asked this question about the political arena.  However, I do need to point out an example of less than over, but nonetheless CLEAR racism here on our own board.

See the comment of one of our brethren, bradiistights, below making reference to Obama's thick lips.

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=71803&boardID=39&page=1

This is just shameful.  If someone feels comfortable behaving this way in public, I can only imagine what a monstrous individual this person is in the privacy of their own home.  I pray he has fathered no little Nazi children.

Being a racist is a matter of what is in one's heart,and if s/he chooses not to reveal it, it will stay hidden, for the most part.

I can think of several reasons why McCain did not look Obama in the eye, during the debate, like the possibility that it was a debate tactic, or something having to do with his experience as a Naval officer, where officers seldom look an enlisted person in the eye, other than to return a salute or give an order.

But, it came across to many has disrespectful, and to some, especially African-Americans, it could have been interpeted as McCain showing disrespect to Obama for being an African-American.

On the other hand Obama is receiving much criticism for being too deferent to McCain. This can be interpreted by some that he feels subordinate to him, due to his race, or that he is hiding his true feelings of superiority.

I personally don't really believe either of these two points involve McCain's or Obama's racial attitudes.

but has NEVER robbed a bank. Is it fair and just to label him a bank robber?

Well ok, the uppity comment actually has some merit since historically, "uppity" was pretty much exclusively used to describe blacks who thought too highly of themselves in the eyes of racists.

Regarding the "boy" comment though, hell former President Carter referred to Obama as a "boy".

Last night, AGAIN we saw a comment from Obama that would have had the media foaming at the mouth if it had been McCain saying it. "He may be our dictator, but he's our dictator", a trite repackaging of the old phrase "He may be a n****r, but he's our n****r". Can you imagine the field day if it had been McCain who made that statement?

All punditry aside, not ONCE, not ONE time has anything McCain ever said been in any way a reference or comment on race. The one and only exception of course, was the very classy ad he ran the day Obama accepted his party's nomination, congratulating him on his historic achievement. Yes, that is very racist, let me tell you.

Meanwhile, Obama has not once, but REPEATEDLY "warned" his fans that he would be attacked because he has a funny name, because he doesn't look like the other presidents on our money, etc. Not once, not twice, several times. Such attacks have not materialized of course, but there Obama is, warning and warning and warning his fans to keep an eye out for it. So who is the real racist here?

Obama is the racist here, not McCain.
I still don't understand why the race card is thrown at us, time and time again.
It would appear that some want to keep racism alive and keep it in our minds every time we turn around.
THIS will be the excuse that many will use when Obama looses. Mark my word. Right MRB? Of course I am.

-- Modified on 9/27/2008 1:45:26 PM

But, as hard as it may be to believe, his racism is not his worst trait.

That's a big problem. there could be a paramount decision to be made, and much to debate on the outcome, but the first hint of something that someone believes to hint as something racist, it then becomes the focus, the over riding issue.  Get over all of the racist crap, we all are sterotyped more days in our life than we want to acknowledge. So blacks Do have bigger lips, you think that they don't know, you think they gain a complex by someone pointing it out. anyone on either side of the race card is rather pvssy in my opinion. We don't like gays when they wear the flame on their sleeve, we don't like paris, in how she poses, we don't like blacks because of the gangsta act, we don't like new yorkers for their accent. This country is becoming a bunch of haters. i am surprised to have visited this board for the first time to find this BS rhetoric. See what you get out of this.

http://www.twth.org/video/player.html?videoId=set_good_example&utm_source=PSA6&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=click

WTF people.  This thread is not about whether John McCain is a racist or what it means that McCain didn't look at Obama.  I asked a bunch of questions that I wanted to discuss, not this shit that nobody can know.  I am reposting the important stuff below.

My question to the group is in this day and age, what kind of evidence do we need?  Do we really believe that there are top politicians who would EVER be so stupid as to make an overtly racist statement?  Even if a politician were a raging racist in private, would we expect them to conduct themselves in a PC fashion in public?  Does any politician have the license to be overtly racist in public?

If we believe that politicians are too smart to be overtly racist in public, how then can we tell if they are racist?  Does it matter?  I don't know what the answer to these questions is, but I do have personal feelings.

So you can be represented by a dummy.

a person has a propensity to rob banks?

Just look to your own VP candidate. Joe Biden has stuck his foot in his mouth on more than one occasion and some of his gaffes have been racial.

Haven't you gotten tired of this issue yet? Why is it that the Dems are looking for racism in every statement? The are many  much more important issues facing all of us, not just the black people among us.

invented racism as a way to justify the slave trade. American politicians now use it to create divisions in the electorate.

I don't think you do.

The Portuguese were light years ahead of the English. Look what they did to the Indian Natives of South America in the 1600's. They considered the Natives as not even human.

that racism is a political device?

-- Modified on 9/27/2008 7:09:20 PM

I want to hear their thoughts on the issues raised.  I don't give a fuck if someone things John McCain in particular is a racist.  IMHO, it's a stupid discussion.  We're not going to know the real answer to that question.  I haven't seen one response to the more academic questions.  I want to know how we're supposed to judge, not what the judgment on one guy is.

Just because you don't like the 'answers' does not invalidate them or reduce their quality.

BTW, you are the one that opened with the admittedly invalid assertions concerning McCain's racial tendencies and their observability (or lack thereof). Then someone continues that line of reasoning and you chastise them?

This isn't a classroom where you are the professor in charge

how about you answering them. I'd like to see your responses. You said you're asking a question, but in reality you asked six questions, some rather vague, and you reference John McCain to begin with. If I read your questions correctly, it seems your main question is, whether or not a politician would be dumb enough to reveal s/he is a racist. If your're a betting man, where would you place your bet?

Yep. Has been, and always will be, unfortunately.