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Politics and Religion

Re: Stacy, until point that Qaddafi shoots down U.S Jets
SinsOfTheFlesh See my TER Reviews 1406 reads
posted

Re: Katrina, actually we recieved aid from numerous countries following Katrina. Japan, Britain, Canada, Australia among others. Denmark was particularly helpful in dispatching ships to the Gulf. They made the same offer in the wake of BP's oil leak. Bush took only a few days to waive the Jones Act, which limits the ability of foreign ships to enter our waters. Obama took over a month before he allowed the Dutch to send in ships to contain oil leaks. If the Dutch had been allowed to send their ships, the oil would likely never have reached the shore, but that's another story.

The situations in Yeman and Bahrain are not quite the same as in Libya. Although protestors have been killed in both countries, neither country is in a situation where their leaders are promising full scale slaughter of civillians if any foreign country intervenes. But that is exactly what Quadaffi has sworn to do (until we started bombing him, then suddenly he became willing to withdraw forces). Darfur was an atrocity, and it is a stain on us as a nation that we stood idly by and did nothing.

Its about oil, eh? How much oil do we buy from Libya? None. How much do we buy from the Middle East in general? Very little. If this were about oil, we would have focused on Yemen and Bahrain first rather than ignore them. "Its about oil" is the mantra of those who have no grasp of the history and politics of the Middle East. That dog never hunted, and still doesn't hunt.

Priapus534059 reads

Mr President, if we don't get out of Libya post haste, you ain't getting my vote next time.

Jesus, I'm starting to sound like Mein----:(

Related Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/03/26/weekly-address-military-mission-libya

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GaGambler2190 reads

did he say "Mission Accomplished" lol

Everybody with half a brain knew that "President" Obama was going to be much different than "Candidate" Obama.

Let me restate that. Anyone with a "full" brain knew it, those with half a brain believed "Candidate" Obama and voted for him. lol

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inicky46581 reads

When you two start agreeing with each other, those of us in the "rational middle" start getting confused! Please, stop it!  (well, not exactly "agreement", but as close as the two of you are ever likely to get!)

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Priapus532129 reads

( IE abortion, religion etc. )

It's just on the rest of the issues, we find each other's politics "half-brained & fucked up"----------LMFAO !




-- Modified on 3/26/2011 10:41:21 AM

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SinsOfTheFlesh1679 reads

This is perhaps the only action Obama has taken as CIC that I agree with.

No, we can't be the babysitter or guardian of the world. As long as we don't go sending our soldiers onto Libyan soil, I'm pefectly fine with bombing the hell out of them. If airstrikes alone are enough force to stop innocent civillians from being killed, its a worthwhile investment.

But don't worry, just because I don't disagree with Obama's actions so far, doesn't mean I would consider voting for him.

PS. Priapus we can't "get out of Libya" since we are not IN Libya.

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Priapus531967 reads

& pilots are taken hostage. Which I fully expect if this idiocy drags on.

Btw, who helps us when we have "humanitarian problems" ? How much foreign aid did we receive after Katrina?

Innocent civilians are being killed daily in Yemen, Bahrain, Darfur, etc. Yet we didn't lift a finger to stop the slaughter in those countries.

This is all about OIL.

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SinsOfTheFlesh1407 reads

Re: Katrina, actually we recieved aid from numerous countries following Katrina. Japan, Britain, Canada, Australia among others. Denmark was particularly helpful in dispatching ships to the Gulf. They made the same offer in the wake of BP's oil leak. Bush took only a few days to waive the Jones Act, which limits the ability of foreign ships to enter our waters. Obama took over a month before he allowed the Dutch to send in ships to contain oil leaks. If the Dutch had been allowed to send their ships, the oil would likely never have reached the shore, but that's another story.

The situations in Yeman and Bahrain are not quite the same as in Libya. Although protestors have been killed in both countries, neither country is in a situation where their leaders are promising full scale slaughter of civillians if any foreign country intervenes. But that is exactly what Quadaffi has sworn to do (until we started bombing him, then suddenly he became willing to withdraw forces). Darfur was an atrocity, and it is a stain on us as a nation that we stood idly by and did nothing.

Its about oil, eh? How much oil do we buy from Libya? None. How much do we buy from the Middle East in general? Very little. If this were about oil, we would have focused on Yemen and Bahrain first rather than ignore them. "Its about oil" is the mantra of those who have no grasp of the history and politics of the Middle East. That dog never hunted, and still doesn't hunt.

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inicky461332 reads

No one can say for sure we won't have a downed pilot who falls into Ghaddafi's hands, but it's unlikely, especially as US aircraft step back from agressive patrolling.  Also, Dafi has very few anti-aircraft missiles left.
I predict he has less than two weeks in power.  Just a guess.  As his ground forces are cut to pieces and the rebels advance on Surt and Tripoli, someone close to him is going to put a bullet in his ear.

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Priapus531929 reads

I't's not an attractive quality of yours.

Maybe we don't buy oil from Libya, but it accounts for 2% of the world's oil supplies. If that's cut off, than other countries, particularly the developing nations such as China & India, bid higher for available oil supplies , along with "speculators", meaning prices for ALL oil supplies go up. Therefore, in the "interest" of U.S. & other "coalition" forces to "defend" Libya.

I'll wait for your reply after you get your rabies shot.

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inicky461390 reads

The lack of Libyan oil has been made up by the Saudis and counterbalanced on the market by a drop in demand from Japan, where a couple of refineries were quake damaged.  The real reason for higher prices, IMO, is the uncertainly caused by violence in other oil-producing parts of the mid east, especially Saudi Arabia.  Maybe Gambler has some info on this.

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GaGambler1337 reads

The effect of taking 2 million BOPD off the market is significant, especially with fears of unrest and interrupted suppies spreading throughout the region.

Japan might provide a short term drop in demand, but as Japan begins to rebuild the long term effect will be an actuall increase in consumption, and they may very well need to import refined products instead of crude, all very interesting to a specualator.
Yes the Saudis could make up the shortfall, and no we aren't running out of oil tomorrow, but as Pri states 2% of the worlds oil is very significant.

Lets face it, there is only so much oil produced in this world, and every country needs to "get theirs" a drop in supply right now is magnified to have a greater impact than the normal laws of suppy and demand would suggest.

and Pri is also correct when he claims that we are there because of the oil, Of course we are because of the fuking oil, do you see us cleaning up Darfur, or Somalia, or any of a dozen other hell holes in this world where innocents are being slaughtered? Of course not, and you aren't going to.

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inicky461095 reads

The reason we're not in Darfur is
1) because we've been working through the UN there.
2) it's hard to project force there.
The reason we're not in Somalia is:
1) we got our asses kicked the last time we went
2) we sent our Etheopian proxies there a year or so ago and they kicked ass but were smart enough to get out quickly afterwards.  You can't impose order where the people don't care.
The reasons we're in Libya, besides the fact that it fits with our principles and members of both parties were clammoring for us to go in are
1) It's relatively easy for us because Ghaddafi is weak, and all his military assets are right near the coast.
2) Our allies agreed, for once, to do some heavy lifting.
PS: I think you're wrong about Libyan capacity.  It's not 2 million BOPD, its 1.2 million, or 2 % of world oil supply.  Most goes to Italy, France and England, though I know it's a fungible world market.  But most experts have said supply is not the issue right now, it's uncertainty.

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Timbow1683 reads

Posted By: GaGambler


and Pri is also correct when he claims that we are there because of the oil, Of course we are because of the fuking oil, do you see us cleaning up Darfur, or Somalia, or any of a dozen other hell holes in this world where innocents are being slaughtered? Of course not, and you aren't going to.
Yep, and as you know Libyan oil is a light, sweet crude oil so it is  easier to refine the Libyan crude oil to produce gasoline and diesel fuel.



-- Modified on 3/27/2011 3:26:18 PM

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SinsOfTheFlesh1279 reads

Patronizing? Debating you point for point is patronizing? Give me a break. If you need me to include fairy dust and daisies while blowing rainbow colored smoke rings up your ass to make you feel better you will just have to get over it. I'm nice, but I'm not that nice.

Yes, I am well aware that even though we don't buy from Libya other countries do. If those countries can't buy from Libya, they will start competing with us for other sources of oil. However, you completely skipped the portion of my post where I mention that if we were truly that concerned about oil, we'd be more focused on events in Bahrain, Yeman, Oman, and Qatar.

Someone posted this link on here a few days ago, which I appreciated very much. I had this link to a map of the Middle East a long time ago and lost it when I switched hardrives. So I'm glad to have it back.

Your assignment Pri: Accurately place the countries of Yemen, Bahrain, Oman, Yeman, and Qatar. For bonus points, discuss the effects of destabalization in the above named countries (all of which are experiencing varying levels of protests), on the global distribution of oil. (Hint: What good is oil hauled out of the ground in Libya, if it can't be shipped to global markets?)

Now do you get why saying its all about oil rings hollow? The countries who control the shipping lanes can have a far more massive impact on global oil supplies. Despite that, no one is suggesting we go in guns blazing, or even start lobbign missiles into Yemen or Oaman. Then again, neither Oman nor Yemen are threatening wholesale slaughter of their citizens.

Frankly, I'm surprised at the opposition to the military actions taken in Libya. Here is an opportunity to assist the citizens of a nation in effecting regime change on their own, without having to commit US ground forces. Its a win/win. Granted, we don't yet know what sort of gov't the Lybian opposition forces will set up, and we don't know how friendly they will be yet. But we don't get to decide who runs other countries. On that score, all we can do is wait and see. When we do have an opportunity to prevent the slaughter of innocent civillians, and the cost to us is a few missiles while the citizens themselves undertake the overthrow of an oppressive dictator, then hell yes we should give them our support. This beats the hell out of how we handled Iraq by a long shot.

Related Link: http://www.rethinkingschools.org/just_fun/games/mapgame.html

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Timbow644 reads

Posted By: SinsOfTheFlesh


Its about oil, eh? How much oil do we buy from Libya? None. How much do we buy from the Middle East in general? Very little. If this were about oil, we would have focused on Yemen and Bahrain first rather than ignore them. "Its about oil" is the mantra of those who have no grasp of the history and politics of the Middle East. That dog never hunted, and still doesn't hunt.
 

and we will allow   them to help Bahrain because it is all about oil :)  
France is in Libya because of  Total Oil and the French Gov holds  5 % shares of Total Oil  .  

http://www.libyaonline.com/business/details.php?id=15827

http://energycitiesmasterplan.com/








-- Modified on 3/27/2011 2:37:14 PM

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