John Lennon was a musician with a message - the most dangerous combination any government could face. His message was OUR message - in a time when our individual, meager voices were not heard, his voice was much too loud to be ignored. I drove 5 hours to join the like-minded - arrived just before dawn. At that point, there were 100,000 voices in unison. But the crowd has since dispersed, and the voices have become individual & meager again. Nowadays, many remember John for his music, but far too few remember his message - the message of peace. If there was EVER a time John's voice was needed, it is now - instead, we get Sarah Palin. The way of the world...
and John Lennon didn't really speak for me even then. Of course he came much closer than Sarah Palin, but that's not saying much.
Sorry, but I am not much of a "joiner", I don't think anyone actually speaks for me, certainly no musician I can think of.
There have been scores of musicians with messages, from Guthrie to Dylan to The Boss.
I am a little over 60's, actually spent time in the Haight, did the protest marches, blah, blah, blah. I saw the Beatles at Candlestick Park. (For you young uns, the Beatles were the group McCarteny was in before Wings.) I liked them a lot, and I know they were a social force when they were together, although I think the Stones are better in the Music Department
By the time of his death, he was still a very popjular figure, but he really wasn't much of a social force while he was alive, living in the two or three penthouses in the Dakotas. If you go over the last year of his life, why he was such a "danger" is a mystery.
The message of Peace is such a fuzzy nice message. War is not the answer unless you are in Dachau, Naking, a slave in the South, a genocide victim in Darfu.
You say his voice was too loud to be ignored. What did the do in the last year that was a threat? Are you implying some deep, dark, CIA-type conspiracy? Any evidence? Funny how the rest of the world has helped keep the secret silent.
Every year while watching the Times Square New Years celebration, after Auld Lang Syne, the John Lennon song "Imagine" is played.
It's pretty damn rare for our corporate media to present ideas that are anti-nationalist, anti-religious, and anti-capitalist, and yet very year the corporate media plays a tune that tells us:
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 2:02:11 PM
My, God. They sing his song in Times Square at New Years. Wow. That must have everyone just bloody terrified. And this annual mass singing of a rather silly song has done what to shatter the system?
And it is an an event that is subsidized by a lot of corporate donations. They really are just wetting their pants in fear.
Actually, all sarcasm aside, I think that pretty much guts his Fear Factor. He has been nicely co-opted by the biggest media event of the year that is presented on an annual basis.
It isn't exaclty storming the Bastile.
They sing his song, and go have a drink. Then they vomit in the subway. (I've been to that event. Big mistake.) The next morning all those people who don't have too bad a hangover watch a football game.
And guess what - During half time not one person mediates on the anti-nationalist message. Done. Over. Had a good time last night. Kumbaya. If I had a hammer. Where have all the hippies gone? Imagine there's no vodka. This land is your land.
And you think this is a big threat to the powers that be.
It's pretty damn rare for our corporate media to present ideas that are anti-nationalist, anti-religious, and anti-capitalist, and yet very year the corporate media plays a tune that tells us:
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
The fact that all the media conglomerates can pump out endless propaganda for their own benefit, and have to acknowledge any other ideas at all speaks volumes. It's essentially an acknowledgement on their part of their inability to drill the humanity out of people's heads.
You can think they should be terrified, but obviously they aren't if everyone is singing his silly song at one of the biggest media event they have. Have the ever tried to blast it out with anything else? They control the amps that night.
"Pumping out endless proganda" is a nice phrase, but it really avoids anything as to whether Lennon was a threat.
Likewise, "their inability to drill the humanity out of people's heads" is a good phrase. But what does that have to do with the danger presented by a bunch of drunks singing the song.
I remember when I was a young rad in the 60's. One of the things that turned me off was the use of rhetoric instead of anything serious or meaningful. The catch phrases were too numerous to recount.
Of course, using nice phrases allows you to avoid issues like, "What does it really matter if a bunch of rowdy drunks sing the song at New Years?" It isn't exactly like singing "La Marseillaise" at Rick's Place in Casablanca.
The example you gave of his danger - singing the song in Times Square - totally strips it of any "danger," and co-opts it into Corporate Land. It would be similar to Bic lighter using "Common Baby, Light My Fire" in an ad.
Since you avoided the question with empty rhetoric, I will repeat it, "So what is the big and actual threat if a bunch of rowdy drunks sing is song in Times Square before puking in the subway?"
So basically you have no idea what I'm talking about. What else is new?
Might I suggest a book to you Phil.
Nobody pays any attention to the lyrics, or would give a shit even if they did.
I often find myself singing along with a song that references God or Jesus or someother batshit idea that I disagree with completely. It doens't stop me from singing the song if I happen to like it. I,like almost everyone else, just gloss over the lyrics.
He was a master of marketing poppycock and a good musician.
If he hadn't been so naive and had more understanding of evil in the World he would have had bodyguards protecting him.He wasn't shot because of religion or borders. He was delusional if he actually believed elimination of borders and religion would bring peace. I have a feeling the lyrics in the song imagine are there because he knew they would sell to the gullible crowd.
http://www.bodyguardcareers.com/2007/12/18/who-needs-a-bodyguard/
"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 3:25:25 PM
not one. I agree somebody must of liked him or his music but I don't think it was me. I tend to like the Classical stuff sprinkled with a little Country Western now and then.
I think people are trying to make more out of him than he was. He was a musician, so was Elvis and they have both left the building.
While I don't think he was that much of a social force, the music is great.
Michele, This Boy, and a dozen others.
They have entered the Great American Song Book with Porter and Gershwin. I have been in a dozen ballet classes where Beatles' ballads are used for adgio and other sections of class. I have heard their songs in at least 30 countries.
While I don't think he is that much of a social force any more, I still think some of the music was great.
The President, the FBI, and Strom Thurmond thought differently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennon
http://www.lennonfbifiles.com/
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 4:44:45 PM
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 4:45:17 PM
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 4:55:44 PM
There are a lot of silly people in any big organization, government or private.
In any event, the fact that someone thought he might be a threat does not make him one. While the FBI did follow real threats at times, they also followed a few stupid leads.
Likewise, I hope you are no agreeing with Thurmond, but just saying that is what Thurmond thought. Again, Thurmond thought a lot of stupid things at various times.
None of this makes Lennon a threat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennon
http://www.lennonfbifiles.com/
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 4:44:45 PM
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 4:45:17 PM
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 4:55:44 PM
Solo...
Imagine
Happy Christmas (War is Over)
Instant Karma
(Just Like) Starting Over
Woman
With The Beatles...
Twist and Shout
I Want to Hold Your Hand
A Hard Days Night
Help
Nowhere Man
Norwegian Wood
In My Life
Strawberry Field Forever
Luck In The Sky With Diamonds
All You Need is Love
Revolution
Don't Let Me Down
Come Together
Across the Universe
If you think Lennon was "just a musician", perhaps you think that Martin Luther King was "just a Negro", too. Lennon's impact on music was profound, but his impact on certain parts of society was nearly as profound. Maybe they are all dreamers, but they're not the only ones...
a musician with a message is the most dangerous threat any government could face. I did not say Lennon was a threat. But ALL governments are paranoid. Nixon perceived him as a threat, and Nixon had the power - therefore, he was a threat. Ruckleshaus and Kelley had the power, and perceived him as a threat - therefore he was. ALL governments perceive a person with a platform and words as threatening, afraid their voice will be drowned out by his - afraid their precious, tenuous grip on power will be dislodged. This is certainly not a unique-to-America situation - Solzhenitsyn in the USSR and Havel in Czechoslovakia were imprisoned under the same circumstances. And it is still happening (see: Julian Assange). As for as Strom goes, he was already senile when Christ was born - however, he also had the power. Let me put it to you this way - if you are going to visit a lady, and when you pull in the parking lot, there's a nice new Crown Victoria (no markings) parked by the entry, with a big, muscular guy with a cop haircut standing next to it (no uniform), checking you out. Is he a threat, or is it that you perceive he poses a threat? Is there a difference?
Being perceived is not the same as being. Nixon may have had power and thought something, but that did not make it so. Look at it this way, "Could it be that Nixon was wrong?"
In fact, you have it both ways. You say governments are paranoid and percieved him as a threat. If he was a threat, they were not paranoid. Paranoid is seeing the threat when one does not exist.
Solzhenitsyn was a real threat because a totalitarian system cannot stand someone handing out contrary messages. But there were no messages that Lennon put out that the U.S. tried to ban.
I remember when I was in the USSR in the bad old days, you could not get a western paper or magazine to save your life. I read in Pravda that Israel attacked Africa, and had no idea why until I got out 7 weeks later and found out about Entebbe. Time Magazine was a threat. In fact, one of the things taht weakened the USSR was the advent of the cheap copy machine. "Samizdat" - self-publishing - became possible on a new level.
Seeing what you describe cop when you go to visit a lady is a real threat if he is really a cop. If it turns out he just looks like one, but is a painter who got a good deal on a used Crown Vic, he is not REALLY a threat.
Everything you say goes to perceived.
As far as a real threat, he was a harmless, aged rocker, living in the lap of luxury not causing any problem.
You can romanticize him all you want, but any danger was paranoid.
to the perceiver. Otherwise, this entire lifestyle, in its current format of ads and reviews and fancy websites, would not exist, and this website wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't be parrying. Was Nixon wrong? YES! Did he FEEL threatened? YES! Was Solzhenitsyn imprisoned for writing anti-totalitarian novels? No, he was imprisoned due to a letter he wrote to 1 friend. Was he a threat to the entire Soviet Union at that point? NO! Did the powers-that-be FEEL threatened? YES! Did I say Lennon was a threat? NO! Did the US Government FEEL threatened? YES! If the guy who looked like a cop followed you into the elevator, is he a threat? If you didn't know whether he was a cop or not, would you FEEL threatened? In ALL these cases, perception IS reality. Guess we're just gonna have to disagree on this one.
If you don't think Lennon was really a threat, then we agree. My response was to people who thought he WAS a threat.
Perception is thinking something. Reality is that thing.
Put simply, a person is allowed to defend himself if his life is in danger. If I am walking down an empty street late at night in a "bad" area, and someone is coming the other way, I may think I am in danger. But I am not allowed to kill him unless he really is a danger.
Perception can be wrong. THe OP was he WAS.
Even as a child, whenever I would hear that song "Imagine" I knew he was talking about communism. As a kid, of course, I WAS a communist; but even at that ... that song made me want to gag.
Any of his solo stuff I heard on the radio was just marginally good, IMHO. Except for the one produced posthumously by Lynne of ELO fame. That was at least produced interestingly.
By the time I was old enough to care, I had stepped far away from communism and found his ideas and advocacies horrifying.
He says you know nothing of his work. He'd tell you that himself, but he doesn't have a TER account. But if he had one, he'd tell you he disliked both political parties, not one over the other. The way of the world is to ignore those kind of people and keep voting your straight ticket.
-- Modified on 12/8/2010 8:47:07 PM
But, as far as an influence in my life, that ended when the Beatles split up.
It is sad when someoe dies like that.
But in reality, his "BIG" work was with the Beatles. The Beatles were the social force. The Beatles were his best work.
For the last decade of his life, the biggest question was "When would the Beatles to a reunion tour.